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NixonAsADaemonPrince
14-07-2010, 21:50
Hi Peoples,

A reworked version of my list, some critique would be greatly appreciated:

Lvl 4 Sorcerer Lord with Lore of Shadow or Death (I know you have choose when you right the list, but I'll play test both to see which I prefer), Talisman of Preservation and Blood of Tzeentch: 345 points (Hides in the Marauders, would I be better served with classic Tzeentch, probably on a disk?)

Exalted Hero with Battle Standard, Mark of Khorne, Flail, Barded Chaos Steed, Dragonhelm, Opal Amulet and Helm of Many Eyes: 220 points (Runs with the Khorne Knights, goes character hunting)

15 Chaos Warriors with Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Full Command and Armour Piercing Banner: 335 points (Should be able to win most battles of attrition)

23 Marauders with Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons and Full Command: 165 points (6 wide with 4 ranks, as they have the Sorcerer to make it 24)

6 Chaos Ogres with Great Weapons, Standard Bearer and Mark of Khorne: 320 points (Big game hunters)

6 Chaos Knights with Mark of Nurgle, Standard Bearer and Banner of Rage: 325 points (Workhorse unit)

6 Chaos Knights with Mark of Khorne and Standard Bearer : 290 points (As above)

Total: 2000points

Nixon

Gaz-A-Tron
14-07-2010, 22:01
Chaos Trolls = Win. Nastiest monstrous unit in the game by a long long long way. Give me another unit of these over 6 chaos knights or ogres any day. I'd take units of 7 just to give you a casualty going in / going last and not affect the number of attacks you throw out.

5 knights =/= win. Neither is any unit that is labelled points filler. Get some (means 40-50, ranked 5-6 wide, 8 deep) HWS marauders with mark of Tzeentch for the 5+ ward.

Chaos warriors need something to give them more ranks than the opponent to break steadfast units. This means a big unit, or a supporting unit of the above marauders.

2-3 units of HW/S & MoT marauders as core, 2 units of trolls as special, and your lord (maybe in a unit? It's easier to assassinate characters now with the new magic rules). That's scary.

Alexander Keith
14-07-2010, 22:15
I agree with Gaz-A-Tron a big unit of marauders will help you cancel steadfast, and the Warrior unit needs to be larger...

NixonAsADaemonPrince
14-07-2010, 22:19
Chaos Trolls = Win. Nastiest monstrous unit in the game by a long long long way. Give me another unit of these over 6 chaos knights or ogres any day. I'd take units of 7 just to give you a casualty going in / going last and not affect the number of attacks you throw out.

5 knights =/= win. Neither is any unit that is labelled points filler. Get some (means 40-50, ranked 5-6 wide, 8 deep) HWS marauders with mark of Tzeentch for the 5+ ward.

Chaos warriors need something to give them more ranks than the opponent to break steadfast units. This means a big unit, or a supporting unit of the above marauders.

2-3 units of HW/S & MoT marauders as core, 2 units of trolls as special, and your lord (maybe in a unit? It's easier to assassinate characters now with the new magic rules). That's scary.

Except that would be a completely different list. Trolls aren't really my thing, stupidity can still curb them even with a BSB, their S5 isn't outstanding and they are slower than my knights. And their are quite a few flaming attacks out there.

I do know what you mean about the chaos warriors, I could up them to 20 if I dropped some horsemen, but I didn't want to go for really expensive units too often. But I will experiment with 20 and a supporting unit of 20 marauders (khorne with GWs, can't go bigger because that is all the models I have at the moment, unfortunately) at some point.

And the units of 5 knights is joined by the bsb, so they are in fact 6 strong, I know about that.

It is also quite difficult to snipe my lord, what with a 2+/3++ and solid magic defence.

So cheers for the suggestions, but I think I'll stick with my theme ;).

Nixon

Alexander Keith
14-07-2010, 23:54
Let us know how the army goes?

NixonAsADaemonPrince
15-07-2010, 17:07
Ok, changed it again. Decided to keep all 6 ogres, but dropped puppet and reworked the exalted's items to give me another khorne knight. See what you think. And just changed the lord to using metal, after the Stank FAQ change.

Nixon

theSkullduggery1
15-07-2010, 20:28
I don't necessarily agree that the Warriors need to be in a huge unit. I've found that MoT + Shields makes them survive, and then give them the armor piercing banner so that they can beat highly armored things too. They don't need to be steadfast because they win, and after a round or two will break the enemy.

I also like trolls, but I see your point about the flaming attacks (I was using them with 8th edition rules prior to my group knowing about the flaming banner).

When you do decide which unit your sorcerer is hiding in, make sure you put him in one of the corner locations so that if he does miscast there are less models covered by the template.

Lastly, get more Marauders, I just got another box because of how useful they are now!

NixonAsADaemonPrince
15-07-2010, 22:31
I don't necessarily agree that the Warriors need to be in a huge unit. I've found that MoT + Shields makes them survive, and then give them the armor piercing banner so that they can beat highly armored things too. They don't need to be steadfast because they win, and after a round or two will break the enemy.

I also like trolls, but I see your point about the flaming attacks (I was using them with 8th edition rules prior to my group knowing about the flaming banner).

When you do decide which unit your sorcerer is hiding in, make sure you put him in one of the corner locations so that if he does miscast there are less models covered by the template.

Lastly, get more Marauders, I just got another box because of how useful they are now!

Fair enough, I might drop a couple for that banner, I like that idea.

I will definitely put him in the corner, I don't want my prize units going up in smoke!

I might just pick up another box, I was saving up for the battalion to boost my count up to 36, but another box now would take my total to 32, with another 20 from the battalion in the future, for 52. So still a reasonable number, good for a nice big horde.

Well cheers for the advice, greatly appreciated.

Nixon

popisdead
15-07-2010, 22:40
Things that are good on a lvl 4: Black Tongue, Dispel Scroll.

I would recommend a juggernaught for your BSB.

Chaos warriors should be size 20.

Marauders should be size 30.

Ogres are OK. Trolls are at better though.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
15-07-2010, 22:48
Things that are good on a lvl 4: Black Tongue, Dispel Scroll.

I would recommend a juggernaught for your BSB.

Chaos warriors should be size 20.

Marauders should be size 30.

Ogres are OK. Trolls are at better though.

I'm not really a big fan of either the Black Tongue or the Dispel Scroll, as they are one use only, and I don't like the idea of voluntarily hurting my general.

I wanted to use the jugger, but then he wouldn't be allowed LO,S (or that is the way I see the rules anyway)

Well Skullduggery disagrees with you. I quite like them like that, a nice combo between hitting power and survivability.

I unfortunately don't have the models or points for more Marauders.

In regards of trolls instead of ogres, they have several negatives which I'm not a fan of which I listed in a previous post, and also the knights already perform a similar role to them anyway, namely beating up infantry and cavalry. The ogres are there to beat up big stuff, and can even take on a thirster. So they provide more synergy and fill a hole in the list.

Cheers for the thoughts though, keep them coming.

Nixon

Odin
15-07-2010, 23:22
Lvl 4 Sorcerer Lord with Lore of Metal, Talisman of Preservation and Blood of Tzeentch: 345 points (For Stank killing, and I like Metal anyway, hides in the Marauders)


Since when has a Chaos Sorcerer Lord been able to take the lore of Metal?

Paraelix
15-07-2010, 23:23
Yeh... Must be the same unit type as his unit to get a Look Out roll. Jugger is Monstrous Cav.

MrMiscast
15-07-2010, 23:56
Since when has a Chaos Sorcerer Lord been able to take the lore of Metal?

My thought exactly

Urdokadin
16-07-2010, 06:38
To put it bluntly, Chaos cannot take the lore of metal. Just in case you were confused by the previous posts.
Overall your list highlights one of the dynamics of 8th, your monstrous infantry may prove to be overall more useful to you than knights.

Althwen
16-07-2010, 06:46
I serioulsy believe you should exchange the BSB's flail for a great weapon.
I'm only halfway through the new rulebook, but as far as I know great weapons give +2 strength to mounted models as well like in the good ol' days.
Especially when he has the helm of many eyes...

Oh, and the lores available to nonmakred sorcerers are: death, fire, shadow, heavens. No Metal.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
16-07-2010, 09:34
Yeh... Must be the same unit type as his unit to get a Look Out roll. Jugger is Monstrous Cav.

Cheers for confirming that.


To put it bluntly, Chaos cannot take the lore of metal. Just in case you were confused by the previous posts.
Overall your list highlights one of the dynamics of 8th, your monstrous infantry may prove to be overall more useful to you than knights.

Damn it, I just had it all worked out. I don't know why I thought he could take Metal, just insanity I think. Do you think I should go back to Tzeentch, or go with another of the rulebook lores? I've put in lore of Shadow in the meantime.

Cheers for mentioning the dynamics as well, I wanted a balanced and mixed list rather than just an "all out on one thing" list. I haven't play tested it yet, buy hopefully the units work together well.


I serioulsy believe you should exchange the BSB's flail for a great weapon.
I'm only halfway through the new rulebook, but as far as I know great weapons give +2 strength to mounted models as well like in the good ol' days.
Especially when he has the helm of many eyes...

As far as I know that's right as well, but then he would no longer have ASF (as ASL from a GW cancels it out), so for one thing I would always go first, and I would miss out on tasty rerolls as well.

Cheers all for the advice though, very helpful.

Nixon

Demandrer
16-07-2010, 11:25
Cant really beat tzeentch i think however some of the hex spells in shadow and death are amazing!

EndlessBug
16-07-2010, 14:51
Death is what I'd suggest. simply fantastic. Purple sun is just sickening. at least 6's to wipe anything off the board, if not 2+ to Dwarfs!

The character sniping spells are incredible too. -3Ld and -1 S & T are also handy.

put the 2 units of knights into 1 and drop a efw to beef up warriors.

other than that it's good :)

NixonAsADaemonPrince
16-07-2010, 15:54
Death is what I'd suggest. simply fantastic. Purple sun is just sickening. at least 6's to wipe anything off the board, if not 2+ to Dwarfs!

The character sniping spells are incredible too. -3Ld and -1 S & T are also handy.

put the 2 units of knights into 1 and drop a efw to beef up warriors.

other than that it's good :)

Fair enough, I'll try Death as well.

I'm not so sure about putting the knights together though, that would mean sacrificing a banner, making them more vulnerable to spells that affect whole units and I still can only get 6 in base to base with a typical unit. And it does cut down on flexibility a bit, I quite like having those two fast units, one on each flank. I could drop the khorne unit though, increase the Nurgle unit to 8 (I have 8 of each type of knight), and add in my hellcannon (though I was trying to avoid stand alone multi wound models which can be cannoned), or up the warriors and marauders, how would that be as an alternative list?

Cheers for the advice,

Nixon

hohenheim
16-07-2010, 20:24
Fair enough, I'll try Death as well.

I'm not so sure about putting the knights together though, that would mean sacrificing a banner, making them more vulnerable to spells that affect whole units and I still can only get 6 in base to base with a typical unit. And it does cut down on flexibility a bit, I quite like having those two fast units, one on each flank. I could drop the khorne unit though, increase the Nurgle unit to 8 (I have 8 of each type of knight), and add in my hellcannon (though I was trying to avoid stand alone multi wound models which can be cannoned), or up the warriors and marauders, how would that be as an alternative list?

Cheers for the advice,

Nixon

You could give your BSB MoT and Book of Secrets (instead of MoK/HoME) for some cheap access to death magic. You'd also get better use from your Opal Amulet. Better at attacking enemy characters from range, worse in cc.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
16-07-2010, 20:54
You could give your BSB MoT and Book of Secrets (instead of MoK/HoME) for some cheap access to death magic. You'd also get better use from your Opal Amulet. Better at attacking enemy characters from range, worse in cc.

I'm just a bit nervous of him dying from a miscast like that. In also wanted some way of tackling characters in combat, and he does that in spades (5 ASF WS7 S7 I7 attacks with plenty of rerolls to hit due to the high initiative). I'm not too bothered about which having different lores, I just want the one which will work best on my lord really. Would it be worth swapping the BSB to tzeentch, but keeping HoME, just so he can take better advantage of the Opal Amulet?

Cheers,

Nixon

hohenheim
16-07-2010, 21:11
I'm just a bit nervous of him dying from a miscast like that. In also wanted some way of tackling characters in combat, and he does that in spades (5 ASF WS7 S7 I7 attacks with plenty of rerolls to hit due to the high initiative). I'm not too bothered about which having different lores, I just want the one which will work best on my lord really. Would it be worth swapping the BSB to tzeentch, but keeping HoME, just so he can take better advantage of the Opal Amulet?

Cheers,

Nixon

For death's signature spell, your BSB would have a 83% chance to cast successfully on just 2 dice and a 3% chance to miscast. You could also try 1 die for 33% chance to cast and 0% chance to miscast.

Every 6th game (assuming your Lord uses Shadows) you can go all in to cast Purple Sun on 6 dice :) You'll probably live to tell about it...

If you're still worried about miscasting or want the combat power, I wouldn't bother with MoT.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
16-07-2010, 21:19
For death's signature spell, your BSB would have a 83% chance to cast successfully on just 2 dice and a 3% chance to miscast. You could also try 1 die for 33% chance to cast and 0% chance to miscast.

Every 6th game (assuming your Lord uses Shadows) you can go all in to cast Purple Sun on 6 dice :) You'll probably live to tell about it...

If you're still worried about miscasting or want the combat power, I wouldn't bother with MoT.

Fair enough, he'd be pretty safe. I still prefer the combat power though, that's his role in life really, he can pretty much take on anyone.

Cheers,

Nixon

hohenheim
16-07-2010, 21:52
Fair enough, he'd be pretty safe. I still prefer the combat power though, that's his role in life really, he can pretty much take on anyone.

Cheers,

Nixon

I've been thinking of combat characters myself... what do you think of this:

Exalted Hero
MoT
Talisman of Endurance
The Other Trickster's Shard
Charmed Shield
Halberd
Stream of Corruption

Decent damage with 4S6 attacks and once per game can breathe on a unit or a character in a challenge :) Also forces the challenger to reroll successful ward saves.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
16-07-2010, 21:59
I've been thinking of combat characters myself... what do you think of this:

Exalted Hero
MoT
Talisman of Endurance
The Other Trickster's Shard
Charmed Shield
Halberd
Stream of Corruption

Decent damage with 4S6 attacks and once per game can breathe on a unit or a character in a challenge :) Also forces the challenger to reroll successful ward saves.

Very nice, I like the build. The OTS is a steal for 15pts IMO, I have it on my Vampire Lord. Might think about running that build myself actually, as an alternative. I would have got Stream on mine, but I sadly couldn't find the points. Your guy should dish the dirt and still take a beating in return.

Nixon