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View Full Version : Shadowblade and Casket of Souls Q.



White_13oy
15-07-2010, 00:37
Can Shadowblade use his ability to infiltrate an enemy unit to go into the Casket of Souls? I would think not since I don't have a base/ use a special base and he is required to take out a 25x25/20x20 model. But he insists that I count the Casket Guard and Priest as being on the 20x20 base since that is what they are on when not on the casket.

So can he just "replace" my priest and insta-gib the casket since the priest is "crew"?

So what is the answer?

SideshowLucifer
15-07-2010, 02:58
is the priest a character or a crew and is the casket a warmachine? If it is a crew of a warmachine, then there is no reason he could not replace a member of the crew since his special rule specificly allows that.

White_13oy
15-07-2010, 04:37
The Priest is a character and you buy the casket with him, like the Cauldron of Blood and those types. It is a War machine, but doesn't have any bases. They are all attached to the model, like the Screaming Bell and Plague furnace. He can't leave the Casket and it's him and two Guards.

Vandelan
15-07-2010, 04:47
By the rules listed on the update, the Priest is both a character and a crew.

Reading Shadowblade's rules again, if you get to the part where he actually replaces a model, he replaces a normal rank and file model from the unit. He will not be able to replace a character as they are not a "normal" crew member of the unit.

Necromancy Black
15-07-2010, 04:52
He can't take out the character but he can indeed take out one of the crew. Just because the crew are not modeled on bases doesn't mean they can't be replaced. If that was the case, you would not be allowed to fight with them in combat as they would not have a base to form up in combat.

EDIT:: also, am I right in saying that the priest is still the only character/champion in that unit and is thus forced to accept any challenge making his two guards goddamn useless?

Vandelan
15-07-2010, 05:04
He can't take out the character but he can indeed take out one of the crew. Just because the crew are not modeled on bases doesn't mean they can't be replaced. If that was the case, you would not be allowed to fight with them in combat as they would not have a base to form up in combat.

EDIT:: also, am I right in saying that the priest is still the only character/champion in that unit and is thus forced to accept any challenge making his two guards goddamn useless?

Actually, the rules for Shadowblade state that he must be able to replace a model on a 20 or 25mm base. So this is probably the source of confusion in this thread.

White_13oy
15-07-2010, 05:19
Thats what I am confused about, they aren't on a base. So can he do it?

Yeah they can still take him out in challenges, but at least he can't be killed by shooting or non-character fights anymore.

I liked his old rules of what he could infiltrate, it always seemed odd to me that in an army of mummies, constructs, and skeletons this fleshy could hide so well. You'd think the Priests/ Kings would notice.

Necromancy Black
15-07-2010, 05:23
Actually, the rules for Shadowblade state that he must be able to replace a model on a 20 or 25mm base. So this is probably the source of confusion in this thread.

Hmm...ok. But shouldn't the crew have rules of how to deal with them in combat or at the time was that covered in the main rule book?

White_13oy
15-07-2010, 05:34
Nope not in the army book, Casket Guards are an alteration of Tomb Guards. Just that they act much like a crew member.

Enigmatik1
15-07-2010, 05:47
Hmm...ok. But shouldn't the crew have rules of how to deal with them in combat or at the time was that covered in the main rule book?

The FAQ seem to indicate that the Casket of Souls, 2 Casket Guard and the associated Liche Priest all comprise one model/warmachine.

Meaning, the first wound done to the Casket (T10/W5) itself removes one of the guards and the remaining guard with the second wound. Nothing happens on wound 3, but a regular Liche Priest is destoryed with the 4th wound and a HLP would be destroyed on the 5th. Either way, when the LP/HLP is destroyed, so is the Casket, I imagine.

It reads like you can't damage the Casket Guard or Liche Priest separately anymore since they share shaves. Meaning, the model has a 6+ armor save b/c the Casket Guard are in Light Armor and has whatever ward or regen save you choose to give the LP.

Given that, it doesn't make sense for Shadowblade to be able to replace one of the Casket Guard because they are not separate entities at all, but are instead seemingly part of the Casket itself.

That's merely my interpretation...but I could be wrong and no one in my group plays Dark Elves...so I'll probably never know for sure.

gdsora
15-07-2010, 05:58
The FAQ seem to indicate that the Casket of Souls, 2 Casket Guard and the associated Liche Priest all comprise one model/warmachine.

Meaning, the first wound done to the Casket (T10/W5) itself removes one of the guards and the remaining guard with the second wound. Nothing happens on wound 3, but a regular Liche Priest is destoryed with the 4th wound and a HLP would be destroyed on the 5th. Either way, when the LP/HLP is destroyed, so is the Casket, I imagine.

It reads like you can't damage the Casket Guard or Liche Priest separately anymore since they share shaves. Meaning, the model has a 6+ armor save b/c the Casket Guard are in Light Armor and has whatever ward or regen save you choose to give the LP.

Given that, it doesn't make sense for Shadowblade to be able to replace one of the Casket Guard because they are not separate entities at all, but are instead seemingly part of the Casket itself.

That's merely my interpretation...but I could be wrong and no one in my group plays Dark Elves...so I'll probably never know for sure.

You are right

Crew are now fancy Wound Markers...that is about it.
They can not be shot at/cast at.

The priest and gaurd are now parts of the casket more then ever.
Since 1 wound to the casket removes gaurd
2 another gaurd
4 removes priest
5 removes High Priest

They function as 1 entity

SideshowLucifer
15-07-2010, 13:56
All war machines operate that way and yet they didn't change his rules to disallow him to replace crew memebers of war machines.
If there is a non-character member of the crew, then I'd say he could replace them just like he could with a cannon's crew, a cauldron of blood's crew, or a bolt throwers crew.