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Paraelix
15-07-2010, 03:30
So the Hex Scroll is used when a spell is cast, as per a dispel scroll... It turns the caster into a frog. However, the only stipulation for resisting the scroll is if you are a wizard... So my questions are;
-Warrior Priests? What happens?
-Characters using Bound Spells... What happens?
-Warmachines using bound spells... what happens? (ie Waraltar, Casket of Souls, Corpse Cart, etc)
-Horrors casting spells... what happens?

solkan
15-07-2010, 03:56
It's not cast as per a dispel scroll, it's used instead of dispelling.

As written, against a non-wizard casting a bound spell, it doesn't do anything because there's no "wizard" to turn into a frog. Note that having spell casting levels is what makes a model a "wizard".

If you don't like that explanation, there's also the bit about the ability being resisted if the model rolls equal to or below its wizard level. Since models without wizard levels would be, at best, level 0 wizards, they'd automatically pass the check and resist the scroll.

Paraelix
15-07-2010, 04:02
See I'm not convinced... It says it targets the "caster"... And needing to roll equal to or below 0 would, in my opinion, be an auto fail.

Still, you're ignoring the potential for Horrors... Do the all become frogs?

mightyzombie
15-07-2010, 04:10
Note that having spell casting levels is what makes a model a "wizard".

It may be worth noting that, according to the RBRB, "Models that can cast spells are known collectively as Wizards." (pg 28)

This could be an important distinction because the section on wizard levels (same page reference) makes no mention of needing to have a wizard level to be considered a wizard or to even continue casting spells (if a wizard is reduced to level 0, by the miscast result for example).

I dont' think it changes the case here, but I thought it might be a good idea to make sure it was known that Wizard Level 0 apparently doesn't mean you cant cast spells, and the ability to cast spells is the only thing that defines a model as "Wizard."

Oberon
15-07-2010, 04:45
So, if I took the ruby ring for my general of the empire, I could then take say, the book of ashur for him too? He has a bound spell, so he can cast spells->he's a wizard?

I'd like to think it was the wizard levels that made a hero a wizard...

Necromancy Black
15-07-2010, 04:56
As written, against a non-wizard casting a bound spell, it doesn't do anything because there's no "wizard" to turn into a frog. Note that having spell casting levels is what makes a model a "wizard".


Except the item doesn't require there to be a wizard, simply a caster.

So, this appears to be RAW: If a non wizard casts a spell and gets this pulled on them they're frogged, no way to stop it.

solkan
15-07-2010, 04:58
Being able to use bound spells isn't an indication of being a wizard, though. See page 37, the description of bound spells.

mightyzombie, going from page 28:
- Wizards can cast spells
- Wizards have a level from 1 to 4
- Each army book will indicate what level each wizard is.
- Wizards have to choose a lore, and be assigned spells
or essentially, something isn't a "wizard" unless it's identified as such.

mightyzombie
15-07-2010, 04:58
So, if I took the ruby ring for my general of the empire, I could then take say, the book of ashur for him too? He has a bound spell, so he can cast spells->he's a wizard?

I'd like to think it was the wizard levels that made a hero a wizard...

I'd like to think that was the case too, but I can't find anywhere that actually says that being reduced to wizard level 0 prevents spells from being cast, or stops you from being a considered a wizard.

And no, it specifically says that possessing an item with a bound spell does NOT make a character count as a wizard (page 37, under 'BOUND SPELLS').

solkan
15-07-2010, 05:02
Except the item doesn't require there to be a wizard, simply a caster.

So, this appears to be RAW: If a non wizard casts a spell and gets this pulled on them they're frogged, no way to stop it.

You've got it backwards. If a non-wizard casts a spell, there's no wizard to be frogged, and nothing happens. The last for sentences of that rule state "enemy wizard", "the wizard", and "the wizard" when not using pronouns to refer back to a previous usage of 'wizard'.

mightyzombie
15-07-2010, 05:03
Being able to use bound spells isn't an indication of being a wizard, though. See page 37, the description of bound spells.

mightyzombie, going from page 28:
- Wizards can cast spells
- Wizards have a level from 1 to 4
- Each army book will indicate what level each wizard is.
- Wizards have to choose a lore, and be assigned spells
or essentially, something isn't a "wizard" unless it's identified as such.

All correct. However, miscast result 10-12 reduces a Wizards level, to a minimum of 0. In last ed, it specifically said that if this reduced a wizard below level 1 they we no longer a wizard. It no longer says they stop being a wizard, or that they are incapable of casting spells. It certainly seems TO ME that "Wizard Level 0" should just say "Not a Wizard Anymore" but I can't find any actual rules to back up my belief, so I have to assume that I'm just wrong.

Necromancy Black
15-07-2010, 05:25
You've got it backwards. If a non-wizard casts a spell, there's no wizard to be frogged, and nothing happens. The last for sentences of that rule state "enemy wizard", "the wizard", and "the wizard" when not using pronouns to refer back to a previous usage of 'wizard'.

Whoooo! So GW have inconsitant wording!

Wait...your not talking about the part where it says how to unfrog yourself...cause that could be interpreted as only models with the wizard rule can reverse the effects...:evilgrin:

Someone needs to add this to the FAQ they'll be submitting to Phil and Direwolf.

Bodysnatcher
15-07-2010, 06:55
Also need to know what the froggy scroll would do to a horror unit.

If they say - entire unit turns to frogs - I will personally hunt down the FAQ writer and, well, make a lot of very hard to clear up mess.

Stumpy
15-07-2010, 07:14
A unit of fear-causing frogs with 5+ ward saves :D

Lord Zarkov
15-07-2010, 13:42
A unit of fear-causing frogs with 5+ ward saves :D
Or even a single fear causing frog, with a 5+ ward, flaming attacks and 20 odd wounds - since 'the wizard' become 'a toad'

Oberon
15-07-2010, 13:48
OR one toad in a unit of pink horrors, as you pick one horror to measure stuff from="the wizard" who represent the whole?

Not really though, I'd choose the easy option=no hex scrolls on horrors.

SideshowLucifer
15-07-2010, 13:53
What happens when a unit of horrors miscasts? Do you roll for the whole unit or one of them? I imagine hex scrolls would work the same way.

Necromancy Black
15-07-2010, 14:01
They have specific rules for dealing with miscasts (basically causes a low form of instability).

Oberon
15-07-2010, 14:02
The unit loses d6 models, they have their own miscast rules.

solkan
15-07-2010, 16:20
Whoooo! So GW have inconsitant wording!

Wait...your not talking about the part where it says how to unfrog yourself...cause that could be interpreted as only models with the wizard rule can reverse the effects...:evilgrin:

Someone needs to add this to the FAQ they'll be submitting to Phil and Direwolf.

True, as written only a wizard can roll to reverse the effects. And, a non-wizard model which cast a spell would be helpless to resist the effects. That's really unfortunate until you notice that there would be no negative effects for exactly the same reason--because of how it says "While transformed, the wizard ..." when describing all of the negative effects.

So I guess the hex scroll would have one effect against non-wizards. You can tell your opponent that you've turned their model into a frog. Of course, it's a frog with exactly the same stats, items and abilities as before, but it's still a frog. :D