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sayles78
15-07-2010, 08:02
This may be simple, and I may be over complicating it, but I just don't seem to be able to get my head round it.

Let me make some quotes 1st.

BRB, Page 490:

1) "Ordinarily, each spell can only be known once in the same army. The only exceptions are where a spell is not generated randomly, such as:

2) -If a model has no choice over which spells it knows.......

3) -If the army book or spell lore clearly states that a model can exchange another spell for the spell in question"

OK, so does point 1 fully explain the rule as it stands?

i.e. that a spell for any given spellcaster that is not generated randomly, basically does not exist for the purpose of this rule. Point 2 only says the same thing, but in a slightly different manner.

Point 3 goes further, by explaining that the signature spell for the BRB Lores, the no.1 spell in each Army Book Lore, and any other spell that can be swapped automatically for a model via his rules i.e. the dreaded 13th Spell, also do not exist for the purpose of this rule.

Point 3 is unambiguous. No need to discuss further.

It's the alternate interpretation of point 1 and 2 that has me. If I take a special character, Vilitch the Curseling for example, that knows all the spells from the Lore of Tzeentch, and then I also take a Chaos Sorcerer, would I be obliged to take a different Lore with my Sorcerer other than Tzeentch? I ask this, because... I have a choice over which spells this model takes. I understand if I took 2 separate special characters who's known spells clashed, this would be fine. But, I'm just not sure about subsequent spell casters who do have a choice as to their spell lores AND spells

I'm not advocating one way or the other, I'm just at a loss.

Your thoughts please.

Sayles

Yrrdead
15-07-2010, 08:09
I understand what you are asking. But I think you need to take a couple steps away from the rulebook, take a breath and realize that this is me breathing.

Seriously though, I believe that you are over thinking this too much. If a character special or otherwise has some ability to know all of a lore (Loremaster) this doesn't prevent another character in the same army from randomly generating spells from the same lore.

As much as I enjoy nitpicking about the rules (because its fun) sometimes I have to remind myself of the "meta"intent of the rule in the game as a whole. And give semantics a rest for the night.

Cheers.

sayles78
15-07-2010, 08:20
I understand what you are asking. But I think you need to take a couple steps away from the rulebook, take a breath and realize that this is me breathing.

Seriously though, I believe that you are over thinking this too much. If a character special or otherwise has some ability to know all of a lore (Loremaster) this doesn't prevent another character in the same army from randomly generating spells from the same lore.

As much as I enjoy nitpicking about the rules (because its fun) sometimes I have to remind myself of the "meta"intent of the rule in the game as a whole. And give semantics a rest for the night.

Cheers.

*Drops like a sack of spuds, back down to earth*

I thought i was overcomplicating it... Not to nitpick though, I seriously had a mental block with this one. And I wasn't slagging them for not explaining it properly (as is the norm).

Thanks for your interpretation.

EDIT: If you want to see an awesome example of nitpicking and rules lawyering, go look at the ASF versus ASF+ASL thread, also in the rules section. That is nuts!

Ultimate Life Form
15-07-2010, 10:19
Look at it that way: You choose the Lore (nothing in the rules stops you from doing it), and after it's done the model does indeed not have a choice over which spells it knows.

HeroFox
15-07-2010, 16:58
So if two Grey Seers elect to take the Pestilen lore and they're both Lv.4 Wizards.. what happens? There's not enough spells for both of them.. does one have to carry over to the ruins lore? And if so, does he CHOOSE which spells he wants or does he roll?

Lord Zarkov
15-07-2010, 17:10
one or both has to take The Thirteenth Spell/Skitterleap or any excess spells are wasted (rulebook p490)

stripsteak
15-07-2010, 17:14
So if two Grey Seers elect to take the Pestilen lore and they're both Lv.4 Wizards.. what happens? There's not enough spells for both of them.. does one have to carry over to the ruins lore? And if so, does he CHOOSE which spells he wants or does he roll?

the same thing that happens when two wizards choose lore of fire, or lore of life. Grey seers still roll randomly to choose spells, they can just split their rolls between two lores. They don't have any further special rules for spell selection.

Yrrdead
15-07-2010, 17:17
So if two Grey Seers elect to take the Pestilen lore and they're both Lv.4 Wizards.. what happens? There's not enough spells for both of them.. does one have to carry over to the ruins lore? And if so, does he CHOOSE which spells he wants or does he roll?

One has spell 1-3 and the dreaded 13th spell. The other has 4-6 and the dreaded 13th spell.

Though I personally would just put down both plague and ruins as my lore (in army list) and roll my spells depending on the army I'm facing , but thats me.