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Hrw-Amen
15-07-2010, 14:51
When a Space Marine who is in a dreadnought gets killed, do they reuse the dreadnought hull or is it burried or whatever they do with dead Space Marines along with its occupant?

Is there any evidence, examples and so on?

Szafraniec
15-07-2010, 14:55
Its probably never been an issue. To kill the SM inside the Dreadnought would require a lot of damage to the actual dreadnought, probably rendering it as useless as the pilot.

I dont really see 'natural death' occurring in a Dread. Most Space Marines will never see a natural death anyway, and, for example, the SW Dread character has been alive for a long long time. There are probably also Chaos Marines strapped inside dreads that have been there since the heresy.

On the off chance something killed the pilot but not the dread? Theyd probably re-use what they could. Hell, itd probably be venerable after all that.

The SkaerKrow
15-07-2010, 15:00
Once the occupant of a Dreadnaught is killed, the actual walker is recycled. It's even mentioned in one of the BL books that Dreadnaught Sacrophogi can be removed from the Dreadnaught itself, making it possible that pilots could be rotated between Dreadnaught bodies.

Hellebore
15-07-2010, 15:09
afaik that's been the SOP for dreadnoughts. They're part of the same relic technology as terminator armour and thus aren't mass produced.

Hellebore

Iuris
15-07-2010, 16:17
I'll agree that Dreadnought bodies are recycled all the time. It's been mentioned several time, one story I remember was with the templar fighting to reclaim one.

I never did get it why, I mean, you'd expect that if the dreadnought were destroyed, the very LAST thing to fail would be the occupant, not the rest of the machine. Probably, if the dreadnought fails, so does life support...

Lupe
15-07-2010, 16:36
Always been so.

At least one codex, the Index Astartes - Dreadnaughts, Soul Hunter and several other sources mention this.

massey
15-07-2010, 19:04
Say I shoot a dread with a plasma gun. A small ball of plasma tears through the front shielding of the sarcophagus and incinerates whatever remains of the guy inside (6 to penetrate, 5 on damage chart). The dread falls over. The robot itself is relatively undamaged. The legs are fine, the arms are fine, the reactor (or whatever) is still running... there's just no pilot anymore. That's the type of situation where you could replace the guy inside without having too much damage to the actual vehicle.

Emperor's Grace
15-07-2010, 19:14
Actually, if a Gaunt's Ghost happens to snipe your dread through his little visor glass, there's still plenty of the dread left to be recycled. :)

Kroeger The Bloody
15-07-2010, 20:30
I think it is even mentioned in a few books/Codices that marine chapters will go to great lengths to recover the wreck of a dreadnought, even one that doesn't belong to them, because they are so valued.

SharpSilver
15-07-2010, 20:38
Although a Dreadnought can be damaged and disabled, it can survive unless the actual armoured tomb containing the occupant's form is destroyed.This means, even though the Ceramite and Adamantium body of the Dreadnought can be disabled, damaged or destroyed, the actual 'tomb' of the Dreadnought can sustain life of the Marine within even though everything else fails. I imagine there are backup systems in place so that even though the mind nerve connections to the dreadnought's arms, legs, torso and weapon systems are all destroyed, the nerve-endings are cut and the marine can therefore, seemingly be reconnected to a new dreadnought body if possible.

This will explain why any Chapter will drop what they are doing and recover the Dreadnought's womb, added to the fact they can provide centuries of previous battle experience, tactical, Strategical and Morale boosts for the units they fight along side.

Goes without saying that the sarcophagus of a Dreadnought can take immense punishment before it finally is no longer recyclable.

Lupe
15-07-2010, 20:49
Well, the way I see it, there are two ways of recycling the dreadnought.

Either the shell is damaged beyond repair (say a Tau EMP, completely frying the ancient technology, beyond the AdMech's scope of knowledge), and the pilot's sarcophagus is retrieved, his insight too valued to be left behind.

Or, the sarcophagus suffers a direct hit and the pilot is lost, but the shell can still be salvaged, and over the centuries it will become the bulwark of another of the Chapter's champions.

Basically, there are two things Space Marines of either flavor desperately need: veterans, and technology so ancient beyond replication. Dreadnoughts are sort of a mix of both...

Asurman
15-07-2010, 21:26
Yes, they do.

The most recent proof of this I've encountered was in Soul Hunter.

Hrw-Amen
16-07-2010, 14:15
OK, so we have pretty much established that they do recover and recycle them. I was thinking more along the lines of when the occupant/pilot is dead and the machine is undamaged or at least repairable.

That brings me to the next question then.

If the previous occupant/pilot was of a suitable seniority and or experience to be given the status of a Venerable Dreadnought, then does the machine remain a Venerable Dreadnought even with a relatively unexperienced new occupant/pilot or do they strip off all the extra armour, bright sparkly bits and so on, leaving it as justa plain old normal dreadnought.

Or are all those things considered as much earned by the machine itself as they are by the Marine inside, thus meaning that at least some of the embelishments would be left.

What do think?

Askil the Undecided
16-07-2010, 14:29
OK, so we have pretty much established that they do recover and recycle them. I was thinking more along the lines of when the occupant/pilot is dead and the machine is undamaged or at least repairable.

That brings me to the next question then.

If the previous occupant/pilot was of a suitable seniority and or experience to be given the status of a Venerable Dreadnought, then does the machine remain a Venerable Dreadnought even with a relatively unexperienced new occupant/pilot or do they strip off all the extra armour, bright sparkly bits and so on, leaving it as justa plain old normal dreadnought.

Or are all those things considered as much earned by the machine itself as they are by the Marine inside, thus meaning that at least some of the embelishments would be left.

What do think?

A venerable dread is an old pilot in an older/variant/highly tinkered dreadnought body if the pilot dies then they put another old experienced pilot in it from another body.

It's not just the hardware that is better with a ven. dread it's the experience the pilot has being a dread too. (minimising hits, adapting to standalone rather that squad tactics, fighting with dreadnought weapons etc...)

massey
16-07-2010, 14:29
I think "venerable" is simply a game term that gets assigned to them. I don't think there's actually a distinction made by the marines.

MajorWesJanson
16-07-2010, 14:54
All dreadnoughts tend to acquire bling over time, and lose it during combat to damage. Crusade for Armegeddon mentions a Black Templar dreadnought having lost a weapon arm in combat, and using a rigged up (autocannon?) until Chapter artificers managed to replace it properly.

Dreadnoughts are also semi-modular, with weapon arms being able to be switched in and out, and Sarcophagi able to be removed.

As for ranks, Dreadnoughts occupy an odd place in the heirarchy. Again, in Armegeddon, a relatively young marine is interred into a dreadnought, and later overrules his former commander and place himself on a kill team assignment. Actually my favoite moment of that book.

Venerable Dreadnoughts are more of an age of a marine interred than the physical shell. Though I imagine that older Dreadnought Marines get first pick on chassis or are permenantly assigned to one. Younger dreadnought pilots may have to share chassis, perhaps taking shifts being awake and mobile, while the other users hibernate.

CasaHouse
16-07-2010, 14:58
I think "venerable" is simply a game term that gets assigned to them. I don't think there's actually a distinction made by the marines.

Exactly. Ironclad and Furioso are variants in the machine's loadout. Venerable is just a rank/experience thing. There aren't "Venerable" dreadnought shells and then "Normal" dreadnought shells. Every dreadnought shell is a chapter relic. Venerable is all about the pilot.

Model-wise, the kit was given all the extra bits and bobs to sell more stuff.

MajorWesJanson
16-07-2010, 16:03
And because it is rather hard to indicate "pilot seniority/experience" on a model, so they use bling to tell them apart :D

bobbles
16-07-2010, 19:21
I for some reason had an image of a dreadnought being crushed down and made into drink cans.

Malice313
17-07-2010, 13:37
I can't think of specific, but there is a lot of fluff along the lines of "Some parts of this ancient technology have remained in service for millenia". I figure dreadnought tech is suitably mystical for this sort of pulp.

Col. Tartleton
17-07-2010, 15:49
The dreads are as a rule addressed by the name of the suit itself, but countless fallen warriors will have served under the name. There are a limited number of dreadnoughts, but probably lots of sarcophagi.

CasaHouse
17-07-2010, 18:33
The dreads are as a rule addressed by the name of the suit itself, but countless fallen warriors will have served under the name. There are a limited number of dreadnoughts, but probably lots of sarcophagi.

Where is this written?

It seems the total opposite of what Marines would normally do. Completely writing off the name of the venerable warrior who was too stubborn to die in favor of calling him "Ford" or "Chevy" or what have you.

I'm actually pretty sure the shell has a name, but they refer to the dreadnought by the name of the pilot. Examples being Bjorn and Tycho.

Green-is-best
17-07-2010, 18:55
Where is this written?

It seems the total opposite of what Marines would normally do. Completely writing off the name of the venerable warrior who was too stubborn to die in favor of calling him "Ford" or "Chevy" or what have you.

I'm actually pretty sure the shell has a name, but they refer to the dreadnought by the name of the pilot. Examples being Bjorn and Tycho.


Yeaaah.... This pretty obviously the case. Bjorn, Tycho, Angelos. Don't let Tankred and his enduring fool you.

SharpSilver
17-07-2010, 18:57
The dreads are as a rule addressed by the name of the suit itself, but countless fallen warriors will have served under the name. There are a limited number of dreadnoughts, but probably lots of sarcophagi.

Like what was said after your post, that's not true.

The Dreadnought itself is not labelled anything. The Dreadnought is an extension of the pilot inside. If a Brother Bob was mutilated and then placed inside one, he would still be called 'Brother Bob'.