PDA

View Full Version : High Elf unit sizes in 8th?



TheSanityAssassin
15-07-2010, 19:41
Hey folks,

I'm starting to get a grip on what 8th is changing with my High Elves, but I'm having a hell of a time figuring out what unit sizes are useful for various units. At the moment I'm sitting with only 3 units in my army, which just seems fooliishly small, even if there are a lot of models (40xSeaguard, 30xPhoenix Guard, 21xSwordsmasters). I'm fearful of shrinking the units, as I don't want to lose attacks, but 3 units just seems....wrong.

WarhammerNoob4ever
15-07-2010, 20:06
personally, i dont think HE need to take advantage of the new rules so much to be effective, w re-rolls for ASF + high I, we kinda of take advantage of the stepping up/supportive attack rule without needs the extra models

personally, im thinkin 25 is max for units and mostly thats just spearmen

in my army, for example

25 spearmen
20 LSG
20-25 PG
6 man units of SM
and 12-14 for WL

the reason i am going w MSUs of SM is that w T3, 5+AS, they die to shooting, but by taking MSUs it means that my opponent is gonna have to focus to kill them, think i worked out the math that it takes more 20 BS4 S3 shots to kill a unit of 5 on average, so by gettin 6, i wont lose the unit in 1 round of shooting (on average) which wont cause a panic check for units around it
at 90 pts, im ok w losing it, means that the shooting isnt going into my spearmen or LSG who have ranks and can hold up lines, plus templates from STs are wasted on 6 man units

but thats just my 2 cents

HeroFox
15-07-2010, 20:26
The above looks pretty accurate to me, except I like my WL in units of 6x4.

ColShaw
15-07-2010, 20:52
I've been using 6x4 Spearelf formation all the way through 7th Ed, and will likely continue to do so in 8th, where it's even better (everyone gets to attack!)

WarhammerNoob4ever
16-07-2010, 02:09
The above looks pretty accurate to me, except I like my WL in units of 6x4.

how do u find units of WL that large work? i have a hard time swallowing that many points for a unit that is only 3+AS vs shooting and 5+ in combat

HeroFox
16-07-2010, 02:19
how do u find units of WL that large work? i have a hard time swallowing that many points for a unit that is only 3+AS vs shooting and 5+ in combat

They can reliably kill anything in the game, so they work amazing for that sole purpose.

Anyone who under estimates White Lions (aka not shoot them) regrets it when they hit combat.

TheSanityAssassin
17-07-2010, 19:09
I just can't seem to wrap my head around why White Lions are so good? Yeah they can bust up armour, but against large units of light infantry they lack the attacks to be effective and die just as quickly as any other elf.

Do people really find units of 6 Swordsmasters to be worth anything? Sure they'll kill SOME models if they get in intact, but won't really last through return attacks, and it only takes a single round of shooting from a small missile unit to either wipe them out or make them small enough to not matter.

I mean, I could just be on the complete wrong page, but I just don't see units of 6-12 guys working at all anymore, and I also don't see a big unit of WL being able to kill 400 points worth of models unless someone is foolish enough to hit them with a big unit of Knights or somesuch.

HeroFox
17-07-2010, 19:37
Because S6 ASF WS5 I5 with re-rolls is sick good?

That, and Stubborn is king in a game dependent on attrition.

My 15-man WL unit chewed through a full unit of 20 Hammerers, FC w/ a BSB last game. People severely underestimate S6.. similarly like they do in 40K. Grey Knight Terminators might not seem like much, but WS5 and S6 Power Weapons chews through any MEQ in the game.

SonofUltramar
17-07-2010, 19:46
After revisiting my own High Elf army my largest units (in 2000pts) are two units of LSG, 20 strong, each joined by a character to be a 7x3 block, everyone fights and lots of shots. Elite infantry, well they didn't make the cut, Dragon Princes are back in my list for the added punch of lots of attacks re-rolling to hit against pretty much anyone and everything.

Arkh
17-07-2010, 19:59
A unit of 30 White Lions 10x3 with the +1 movement banner is about as brutal as it gets. With the re-rolls they average something like 22-23 wounds per round of combat when they all get to attack.

A single unit of 30 Phx Guard in horde formation it very good as well.

i find swordmasters are best fielded in units of 6-7. There's no reason to pay the points for a swordmaster in the second rank when you could just take another small pack of swordmasters for the same price.

Homer S
17-07-2010, 20:18
This bodes well for my fluffy Korhil army! My 7th edition 2000 point army had 2 min LSG, 2 big units of WL, 2 WL Chariots, Korhil in his chariot, Mage Lvl 2 and 2 bolt throwers. For 8th, I guess to bulk up my min sized LSG units, I'll have to drop a chariot...

The WL have FC, do you think the LSG need it?

Homer

TheKingInYellow
17-07-2010, 20:18
A horde of PG will hold against anything in the game now and a horde of WL will break anything in the game now. 30 I5 WS5 S6 attacks with rerolled misses 99% of the time? Yes please!

SonofUltramar
18-07-2010, 09:55
A horde of PG or WL, I'd hope they'd be effective for the points you're shelling out? I think too many people are fixated on the horde rule, yes its good but its not for every army.

For example with Skaven Clanrats they can horde it up, say 10x4, but when they reach your lines not only should the unit have been partly depleted by magic or shooting but a unit of 15 WL or PG will be going first with 11 attacks (including a champion) re-rolling to hit and causing a reasonable numbers of wounds after saves (about 8 for the WL and 6 for Phoenix Guard) . Attacks back they'll get 22 (inc Champion), 11 hit, be generous and say 6 wound, 4 dead.

If they charged their combat score is at best 9 (assuming they still had three ranks!), WL would be 10 and PG 8 (inc Standard in both), so a very close combat and no need for a horde formation and remember this assumes they got the charge. So with the points saved you could take another unit who can counter charge (lets say Swoardmasters or Dragon Princes) to counter strike or take bolt throwers to soften the enemy up. To me the dynamics haven't actually changed that much, especially for High Elves.

HeroFox
18-07-2010, 09:56
Yeah.. so, how do I say this?

High Elves cannot afford having their units in hordes.

Avatar of the Eldar
18-07-2010, 15:17
I'm trying blocks of 21-24-28 for spears or LSG in ranks of 6 or 7. I think 20 is the smallest you want to go. (My group played 2250 in 7th ed but looks like we're gravitating to 2500 for 8th).

I haven't run them yet, but I'd run 18 PG in 3x5 +3 or in 20 as the obvious mage bunker.

For the elites, I'm going with 3 ranks to benefit from "stepping up". SM's and WL's in either 18 or 21.

Just a foot note, for those of you running 2 units of archers to fill out the core requirement: I've found that the single rank, 10 wide is good out on the flanks to prevent fast cav and scouts getting round behind me on Turn 2 (or even turn 1).