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tengubeggar
18-07-2010, 22:51
k.. 7th edition.. mr shadow shows up in opponents unit.. does some good killing (usually) then only enemies closing the gap are left.. who cant attack him in return.. now 8th edition.. shadow shows up.. does some killin.. then every model around him pounds the crap out of him.. this is stupid suicide mission worthy of a assassin.. not the master of them.. i hope i got this wrong! (i know he can reroll his hits now.. even if he lives to the second round.. due to the new strikes first rule.. but thats not going to stop the death that faces him for being stupid enough to show up in the unit in the first place)

Commissar Vaughn
18-07-2010, 23:33
Possibly, but if he rips open some poor unsuspecting character all thats left is the rank and file...who are usually hitting him on 5s, (then still have to wound and get trhu his 5+ save) . One of them loses an attack and you dont have to aim for the front of an enemy unit:he can appear in the rear so no supporting attacks and he gets +2CR (if single characters get that too right? ) plus he doubles wounds for his combat res.

doesnt sound too bad....

tengubeggar
18-07-2010, 23:57
true..except that he still costs 300 pts (around that.. im not at the codex right now) and im used to him holding up entire units for numerous rounds... with lots of killin... this is a slap in the ninja face (i feel the wood elfs players pain here) 8th edition is fun.. but come on gw.. get the damn army books out, with the edition.. or have better, more thorough faqs or errata... its not like there not making money off of us..

theunwantedbeing
19-07-2010, 00:06
In 7th ed he was rubbish, in 8th ed more so despite his exploding trick when he dies being marginally more lethal now.

Not sure he can appear in war machines anymore either.
In 7th he was just a glorified war machine hunter really, his only advantage over things like harpies was that he couldn't be reliably blown away on turn 1, he tended to be very poor at taking down enemy hero's, let alone enemy lords that cost similar amounts to himself!

For his cost, you could get a reasonable unit of shades complete with far deadiler assasin!

Lord Dan
19-07-2010, 00:12
So don't have him show up in a fully ranked unit that doesn't contain an expensive character worth taking down? Doesn't sound like much has changed.

tengubeggar
19-07-2010, 01:04
true guys!, true.. in 7th i had him take out whole units of archers..half the time.. guess im just lamenting this downgrade of him... this is the master assassin after all.. and whats darkelves known for other than magic.. backstabbing, murder, possibley even jacking peoples warcraft accounts... too bad it will probabley be awhile before the armie book is released.. rip assassins..

Glabro
19-07-2010, 01:33
Yeah, but....

No, I've got nothing. Seriously, just take a dragon instead.

tengubeggar
19-07-2010, 02:33
k justin.. i know its j.c. .. dragons, ninjas, dark elves.. some might say im spoiled? what more could a guy ask for? hot elves that ride ninja dragons?..
might be onto something here...

Nathangonmad
19-07-2010, 03:14
k justin.. i know its j.c. .. dragons, ninjas, dark elves.. some might say im spoiled? what more could a guy ask for? hot elves that ride ninja dragons?..
might be onto something here...


Shadowblade has always been not worth it ;) Well, to contridict myself hes worth it if the enemy has a really expensive char that he can kill, thorek is a great example.

eyescrossed
19-07-2010, 03:33
k justin.. i know its j.c. .. dragons, ninjas, dark elves.. some might say im spoiled? what more could a guy ask for? hot elves that ride ninja dragons?..
might be onto something here...

You have no right to whine when you know how Wood Elves have ended up :p

Ovassilias
19-07-2010, 10:56
The best use i found in 8th for Shadowblade is "kill the Teclis trend in round one", and for that he worths the full 300 pts.

Seriously, for a master assasin having 4 attacks......and rending stars?lol.

Anyway, he is not bad but he still remains a very expensive hero suiside model.
The best way to use him is to reveal him on a light armored unit, place him on the rear of the unit and if there is a champion challenge him. If there is no champion, challenge a hero or wizard. If theres no such thing he can live through 2-3close combat rounds.

They hit him on 5's (unless they have WS5, which in that case i wouldnt reveal him in such a unit) and only 3 attacks since support attacks are made only to the front, he has a 5+ ward which can save him for a few close combat rounds. Combined ofc that from 3 models only 1 hits him.

Usually with ASF+always re-roll he will kill 3 models and having +2 CR from rear, even with steadfast the opponent unit will be bogged down.

So, best units to reveal him are shooting ones or units that have a special character wizard. War machined as well, but then he is left in open ground for everyone to target him. Reveal him on the rear ranks or to a flank if u want to be in base contact with a character (thus not risking a refused challenge), and getting +2 or +1 static CR and not a lot of return attacks.

Remember that a unit that lost a close combat round needs to pass an LD with the - modifiers in order to reform and face you, in this case its gonna be at least -4 (kills and flank).

Commissar Vaughn
19-07-2010, 11:06
Remember that his poison means you double the wounds he caused for combat res, so if you are assuming 3 kills there (not unlikely at all.) thats a CR of 7...which is rather respectable actually...

PARTYCHICORITA
19-07-2010, 13:48
In 8ed im seeing more and more lists with lvl 4 wizards who, imo, are worth shadowblading to leave the opponent w/o the +4 cast/dispel.

killerbot
19-07-2010, 13:57
i dont see what the fuss is about tbh, you can always reveal him after the unit is bieng charged by something else. eg if he was consealed in a large unit which could stand and shoot against a charging unit, just reveal him the turn before, hold them up for a turn then just use some support charges from something else. the way the rules for him are, he could technically take on a horde unit, but after the first combat phase of them getting 3 people attacking him, that unit whatever it is can turn to face him, thus leaving flanks exposed, so either way you look at it he is a large points sync, but when you can use him as a distraction to take down say a 500 pts unit then totaly worth it i say. :D

T10
19-07-2010, 14:09
rip assassins..

The whole point of an assassination is to eliminate a high-ranking enemy character, not to engage in large-scale slaughter.

sulla
19-07-2010, 14:39
300pts is far too expensive for the chance of killing something, especially now that unit champs can move to a fighting position and challenge him....

chivalrous
19-07-2010, 15:03
The whole point of an assassination is to eliminate a high-ranking enemy character, not to engage in large-scale slaughter.

Or to cause a significant amount of disruption to an enemy's plans. There was something in the 5th edition army book about Assassins poisoning wells and hobbling horses if I remember correctly.

Agains a horde unit he may not rack up the kills but you can reveal him in the rear of that unit and they're stuck in place. Tru, they can perform a combat reform and turn to face him so they get supporting attacks against him, but then they've got their backs turned to the rest of your army.
Alternatively you can put him in contact with the opponent's flank, no only will they loose any horde bonus if they turn to face him but then they've also got their flank exposed to the rest of your army.
The idea is flawed in that the opponent may never turn to face Shadowblade and never expose a flank or rear but ultimately, that uber unit of hordyness is stuck-in-the-mud until Shadowblade is killed or he runs off. (which is also why a Cauldron steadiyl moving toward that unit is also useful ;))

I'm really not sure about whether he can hide in a War Machine crew either but I hope so, that tactic is the only saving grace for my Khainite force a lot of the time.


300pts is far too expensive for the chance of killing something, especially now that unit champs can move to a fighting position and challenge him....
Most unit champs (not all I hasten to add) will fall flat against Shadowblade, so it's really in your favour if your opponent issues a challenge. It keeps Shadowblade alive for a further turn and the unit tied up for another turn

L1qw1d
19-07-2010, 20:07
Yeah, but....

No, I've got nothing. Seriously, just take a dragon instead.

Those get mowed a touch faster now as well lol and you'd require nearly double your army ;.; I think he's the only Sin I would use "Scout drop off" for anymore since you can mainly get them to the Chars or Mages fairly easily. Most tourneys I tried never even allowed him lol

Nocculum
19-07-2010, 20:27
Given the General has been given a huge boost, as has the BSB's role in a game, I think Shadowblade is better now - take out either of those characters and he can easily claim his points worth, if not more.

tengubeggar
21-07-2010, 00:08
thanks for the shouts guys.. i still will miss the old shadow as he did good by me.. and i loved seeing the opponents face when i showed up in his units.. good fun.. i hope in the new army book they give him even a 4+ dodge save or something ,.. that might make him worth taking again.. again though.. hes the master of assassins.. not a grunt of the guild.. so he should be able to bring it in a big way... having a nuclear detonation when you go is sweet.. but.. fluf wise.. i dont think one would strive to be master of a guild of killers just so you can go out with the biggest bang...

Lord Dan
22-07-2010, 00:49
and i loved seeing the opponents face when i showed up in his units.. good fun..

I think here you've inadvertently found Shadowblade's true purpose: terrifying your opponent for a turn as they wait for the close combat phase.

JonnyX
22-07-2010, 01:42
As posted earlier I believe he can hide im warmachine crew.With swift reforms likelyhood is that your opponent will see your 300 point char with almost no save with t3 shredding his 100point war machine and go "ooo 200 free VPs" . So as magic has become even more of a game changer I see him being used alot more to gain the upper hand against rival magic users, which also makes him get his VPs back and more so by superior magic phases.

chivalrous
22-07-2010, 02:19
As posted earlier I believe he can hide im warmachine crew.With swift reforms likelyhood is that your opponent will see your 300 point char with almost no save with t3 shredding his 100point war machine and go "ooo 200 free VPs" . So as magic has become even more of a game changer I see him being used alot more to gain the upper hand against rival magic users, which also makes him get his VPs back and more so by superior magic phases.

200 free VPs at best, if he only knocks out one machine. He may be an easy target but it's not certain that he'll be killed straight away, especially if your opponent has more pressing targets.

You must admit though, against artillery heavy Dwarfs or Empire, it's not such a bad idea to have him running around behind enemy lines knocking out warmachines. Where the Empire is concerned, their wizards will be facing the bulk of your main force and with lone characters no longer having 360 arc of sight he'll be safer than usual, also, your opponent is unlikely to turn a unit around to face him with a Dark Elf army poised to take it in the rear if it does.