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jdunn
19-07-2010, 15:40
So I've recently started playing blood ravens after beating DOW2 and having a seizure over how awesome the blood ravens are, and i thought to myself,

What are your thoughts on the Blood Ravens history/ lineage?

I personally think they might be descendants of some Tzeentchian-cult because of the abnormal amount of psykers in their chapter.

Dronevil
19-07-2010, 15:49
It's been very heavily hinted that
they're somehow descended from the Thousand Sons

Read the Dawn of War trilogy of novels for the hints, although they're not that great books.

Askil the Undecided
19-07-2010, 15:53
This really has been done to death, use of the search function will answer this question so easily that you laugh for having asked it.

Lord Damocles
19-07-2010, 16:12
*cough*Search Function (http://www.warseer.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2205959)*cough*



Excuse me. Tickly cough there.

Son of Sanguinius
19-07-2010, 18:51
Some one give Damocles a hymlick.

Personal speculation time! My guess is that someone made an attempt to mix Thousand Sons DNA and Blood Angel DNA, while trying to weed out the impurities. Hence you have a Chapter with high percentages of psychics, with about as much luck as the Lamenters.

lord_zyplon
20-07-2010, 17:08
Some one give Damocles a hymlick.

Heimlich. (http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/comedy/watch/v15368687KPjptnjM) ;)

I'm a subscriber to the theory with
the Thousand Sons as progenitors.

While there isn't much in the way of evidence, it does fit fairly well.

Son of Sanguinius
20-07-2010, 19:32
You know, I asked three different people how to spell that and they all gave me the wrong answer.

Londinium
20-07-2010, 21:37
As everyone has already said, read the Dawn of War books, A Thousand Sons and the Blood Ravens IA and you pretty much have your answer. Although GW occasionally drop allusions to other traitor legions just to muddy the waters.

KingDeath
21-07-2010, 20:47
There is no real evidence that the Blood Ravens are descended from a traitor legion at all. Some people read some rather strange stuff into the "A thousand sons" novel, just because some raven symbols appeared there ( in a minor role...). I have yet to read Goto's drivel...or better...no, i won't. I value my time and my money. Even the Relic games have very little to say about the origin of the Blood Ravens. Sure, they don't know who is their primarch and Avitus rages a bit about the chapter's secrecy...but this has imo more to do with the recent activities of their chaptermaster.

Eumerin
21-07-2010, 21:22
Sure, they don't know who is their primarch and Avitus rages a bit about the chapter's secrecy...but this has imo more to do with the recent activities of their chaptermaster.

It's not "recent". Given that a primarch is one of the most important individuals to the members of a chapter it is, a level of information concealment has been performed that's practically unheard of. And the "loss" of that particular piece of information would have had to have happened a very long time ago, or older members of the chapter like Gabriel Angelos would know who it was.

Goto includes (I suffer so that you don't have to!) the following tid-bits -

There's the possibility (never actually suggested, but definitely implied) that the earliest recorded leader of the chapter willfully supressed the history of the chapter. Prior the that particular individual, the chapter history literally does not exist.

A rather confused and amnesiac Blood Raven ends up with Ahriman in an ancient library, and seemingly at random (or more likely due to some subconscious impulse) grabs a book off of the shelf that is tied to the Thousand Sons. Ahriman notes the book and finds it appropriate for reasons that he doesn't disclose.



In any event, it's hardly as if Goto's items (which can't be discounted as they don't clash with anything else in the fluff - even a stopped clock is accurate twice a day, after all) or the Thousand Sons items are the whole of the evidence toward linking the Blood Ravens to Magnus. The recognition that there might be a link existed long before Thousand Sons was published.


No, there isn't a great big neon sign screaming, "Magnus marines here!", at the Blood Ravens' headquarters. But if you carefully sift through the information provided here and there then the evidence tilts toward Magnus.

FarseerSinian
21-07-2010, 21:37
They could possibly be tied more to the Grey Knights than a traitor legion. I believe I read somewhere that, for reasons forgotten, the Grey Knights always loan a few of their own to the Blood Ravens. Never allowing more than just a squad.( Or possibly this was just a game mechanic for DOW) They would both be similar with their Psyker count and mysterious origins. It's hinted in the "Vision's of Heresy" book they they made be made up of Loyalist Marines from all the Traitor Chapters. Which explains their unflinching loyalty to the Emperor. What better way to show loyalty than to turn against your own Primarch. Maybe it was an experiment to see if they could create more chapters with 100% loyalty ratings. Which the Grey Knights are the only ones to date.

A Shadow
21-07-2010, 22:27
Ahriman is a Traitor, Traitors lie. And while I can see how people would automatically assume Thousand Sons lineage, the Blood Ravens are organised differently while most Successors follow similiar organisational structures, they have a slight geneseed mutation that has never been seen in another Chapter and the reason that they have so many psykers is because they actively seek out recruits with psychic potential. Geneseed has little to no effect upon psychic power.

Londinium
21-07-2010, 22:31
I just don't get those that dispute the Thousand Sons lineage. Yes a lot of 40k is based upon half truths and lies and yes the lineage of the Blood Ravens is purposely vague. However enough stuff has been put out in the six years since DOW released to suggest with 99% certainty that they are Thousand Sons or TS successors.

It's not like some aspects of 40k where it's deliberately kept vague and contradictory like say the Iron Cage. It's fairly obvious with just a few odd random bits to throw off newbies.

Son of Sanguinius
21-07-2010, 22:41
Ahriman is a Traitor, Traitors lie. And while I can see how people would automatically assume Thousand Sons lineage, the Blood Ravens are organised differently while most Successors follow similiar organisational structures, they have a slight geneseed mutation that has never been seen in another Chapter and the reason that they have so many psykers is because they actively seek out recruits with psychic potential. Geneseed has little to no effect upon psychic power.

The best liars are as honest as "honest" folks. They just intentionally make you draw advantageous conclusions (advantageous for the liar) through misrepresenting truth. One would imagine Ahriman is a throughly practiced liar.

And as for geneseed not affecting psychic power, your statement is pure speculation. To my knowledge there is nothing official confirming this.

Londinium
21-07-2010, 23:13
Being psychic is a mutation, the Thousand Son geneseed is much more suspectible to this mutation than other first founding marine chapters. So I think it's fairly reasonable to make the assumption that Thousand Sons would also make the strongest psykers out of all marines and thus geneseed does affect it.

Son of Sanguinius
21-07-2010, 23:53
Being psychic is a mutation, the Thousand Son geneseed is much more suspectible to this mutation than other first founding marine chapters. So I think it's fairly reasonable to make the assumption that Thousand Sons would also make the strongest psykers out of all marines and thus geneseed does affect it.

If Magnus, or indeed any of the Primarchs, were designed as psykers, then the geneseed must affect that on some level. The geneseed is derived from the Primarch DNA.

Also I don't see why the Thousand Sons are necessarily the "strongest" psykers. Magnus had incredible power, without a doubt, but that does not directly translate to his sons having their potential increased in a comparable fashion.

odmiller
22-07-2010, 23:25
There is literally a mountain of evidence pointing to the 1000 sons.GW couldn't be more clear without actually spelling it out. Goto's "drivel" makes it quite an obvious conclusion, and on top of that A 1000 Sons removes any doubt.

Gdolkin
23-07-2010, 00:36
Their colours are the same as preheresy TS too.

A Shadow
23-07-2010, 05:29
Surely if geneseed had the effect of making Marines psykers then Chapters would not specifically recruit those with psychic potential as they could just turn any old recruit into a Librarian.

Mage
23-07-2010, 05:48
I think the question of geneseed and effect of marines being psykers is derailing this thread from its original purpose.

I believe there is a strong possibility the Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons descendants. When I finish reading the Thousand Sons Heresy Novel, I will make my mind up on it, but even the name is a hint from the original legion if you think about it, 1,000 successors who are loyal possibly? I know that the name refers to how many were left after the fleshwarp, but I think this is a cool idea also.

Same scheme as the pre heresy Thousand sons amongst other numerous 'coincidences'.

EldritchRaider
23-07-2010, 13:42
I'm very interested in the Blood Ravens myself and am very interested in their heritage. It's hinted in the DoW trilogy that they are descendants of the Thousand Sons which would not only explain their high level of psykers and the fact that they have no record of their primarch. (If they were the descendants of a traitor primarch they might want to have it covered up, the image of the Father Librarian replacing him as a leader figure.)
It is also possible that they are tied up with the Grey Knights and had not turned on the Emperor with their primarch (who is unknown having being killed or otherwise) but turned on their primarch fighting for the Emperor, in which case it is still a slur on the blood ravens that their primarch would betray them, it would be covered up. But how could you get more loyal that?
I don't believe it will ever be told who their origins really lie with, but in my mind they're most likely loyalist thousands sons or they are tied up with the grey Knights in some way or it could definitely be both Imo.