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CKO
20-07-2010, 00:05
Okay guys lets be honest how many marines would it take to conqueror earth? :p

Solar_Eclipse
20-07-2010, 05:24
All of them at the least

Seriously, Marines cannot conquer planets, thats not what they are trained for and they cannot possibly win against an entire population.

Polaria
20-07-2010, 05:37
Earth as in modern earth or Earth as in 40k earth?

Son of Sanguinius
20-07-2010, 05:43
Conquer? They can't and don't do that. But they can sure as hell decapitate any organized resistance and cripple our military and economic infrastructure.

Gorbad Ironclaw
20-07-2010, 07:40
Conquer? They can't and don't do that. But they can sure as hell decapitate any organized resistance and cripple our military and economic infrastructure.

Not really, no. They can bomb a planet from space but if we are talking a global level any sort of serious military resistance would outnumber marines with battle tanks alone. They can make a single orbital assault and probably/possibly destroy a given target but then what? Once they are on the ground they lose the big advantage or orbital mobility a strike cruiser and drop pods would give them. They can't possibly attack every single high priority target all at once with any degree of competence.

Any sort of resistance that doesn't immediately fold and surrender at there first assault is going to give a Chapter of marines serious troubles and really should have quite a good chance of either defeating them outright or at least confining them to a small front they struggle to control.

Craftworld
20-07-2010, 08:05
They can't possibly attack every single high priority target all at once with any degree of competence.

You've never read a Black Library novel before, have you?

On topic, it would never get to the point of war. I don't think there is a country on Earth that has the brass to say no to negotiations with the Imperium.

We would be welcomed into the Imperial fold, and you would all be Guardsmen. The end.

Polaria
20-07-2010, 08:06
Lets see... if I was a Space Marine chapter master and I wanted to bring down the modern earth in one fell sweep, I would:

- Put cyclonic torpedoes into a few main harbors, thus crippling the international shipping and making transporting key materials (like oil) a hell of a lot harder.
- Put a few more cyclonic torpedoes into the few, rare air-defence control centers of the few nations that actually have any amount of fightercrafts ready for use.
- Put a yet few more cyclonic torpedoes into the national HQs of the few intelligence services with best technological capabilities.
- Land a few 5-men teams to take over, cut and destroy biggest internet hubs. Its not like there is anything more than a few rentacops protecting them.

Now, we would still have working governments but fuel storages only for a few months, very little air-defence and several days (or even weeks) of internet blackout.

Next, I would send in the fast units and scouts. These would attack fuel emergency storages, cut electrical trasfer lines, blow up bridges, sabotage smaller harbors, airfields and communications hubs during the first few days when everyone was like WTF?!?

At the same time my other teams would start one-on-one negotiations with leadres of smaller, poorer nations. I would spare their infrastructure and give them weapons in exchange for providing the manpower I'll need in the second stage of the invasion.

By the time the big nations like US, China, EU and so on could get their act together they would not have the capability to organize any big armored formations fast, they would not have trasport capability to refuel those formations and they would not have harbors to trasport them across the earth. During the following months I could easily take military forces of Earth piecemeal, one-by-one, unit-by-unit by putting cyclonic torpedoes on anything too large to handle by fast attacks, scouts and psionic powers.

And all the while demonstrating this overwhelming military might I would continue to arm, equip and train the nations that had by now folded over to my side. Promising them a great future in the "New World Order".

I'd say 3 destroyers and 3 full astartes companies (assault, tactical and scout) along with a couple of librarians is enough.

RCgothic
20-07-2010, 08:15
Air superiority is a must. In order to launch multiple missions, Thunderhawks need to be able to operate with impunity. This involves bombing airbases from orbit. After that, just about any mission could be pulled off with a minimum of casualties. Obviously, any movement of forces by air or sea could be completely interdicted, and all of the world's navies could be obliterated pretty much in the opening minutes/hours.

Nations without a technologically advanced military might even defect with a bit of carrot/stick action. Then it becomes more of a problem that trying to stop the marines going where they want, when they want (and there's nothing we can do to stop a squad of terminators doing exactly that), you also have the manpower of the developing nations backed up by complete interdiction of your air assets.

There are yet more things a few companies of marines could do to really bring the world to its knees.

Polaria
20-07-2010, 08:41
Air superiority is a must. In order to launch multiple missions, Thunderhawks need to be able to operate with impunity. This involves bombing airbases from orbit. After that, just about any mission could be pulled off with a minimum of casualties.

You don't even need to destroy airfields. Modern military air defence command and communications centers are well protected against modern military airforces but can't do anything againts cyclonic torpedoes. With air defence command and communications out there is no-one to analyze the radar signals, transmit them to fighter squadrons and order the fighter sqaudrons to scramble. Thus, even with all airfields and all planes intact none of the air forces could do anything against the Thunderhawks because the actual fighters would not know when to rise up and where to go fight.

RCgothic
20-07-2010, 08:46
Aren't cyclonic torpedos a mantle-busting exterminatus weapon? I think standard plasma or melta torpedos would be effective enough, not to mention lance strikes or macro-cannon barrages.

ehlijen
20-07-2010, 09:15
Depends on what you mean by 'conquer'. If the goal is to batter earth into the stone age for an easy IG performed takeover after: 2-3 chatpers worth of naval assets, due to the threat of nuclear ICBMs which could easily translate into large numbers of ground torpedo bases in the BFG rules and the ammunition requirements for bombing so much of a planet without cracking the crust. So we're looking at 2-3 barges and about 10-20 strike cruisers. Escorts are apparently not capable of performing such operations, according to the bfg rules.

Destroying earth is easy for marines.

But if we're talking actually taking over earth and forcing it into becoming an imperial world, we're talking about a hundred chapters at least, simply because SM presence, not combat prowess, is what'd decide that.

Take a map of the world and look up the numbers involved in either the france or russia campaigns of WW2, compared to how long those fights took and how much of the planet was covered.. That's why 1000 men can't do squat against a planet of resitance.

Also, remember the legacy of the cold war: at least 2 super powers attempting to configure their arsenals to function on in case of full destruction of their respective infrastructures. Even after lengthy bombardments and several objetive raids, there will be significant resitance left. Not enough to stand up to dedicated assaults, but each such assault will take 5-10% of the a marine chapters' assests at once and each with a the threat of marine casualties. Eventually a marine chapter will run out of ammo, men and initative.

deacon52
20-07-2010, 09:32
havent you guys seen independence day. we shall not go quietly into the night yadda yadda yadda...(inspiring speech). then we hi-jack one of their ships, fly up to there mother ship and implant a virus into their main computer. just in time for us to rally our defenses and pull victory from defeat. simple, we win.

Radium
20-07-2010, 09:46
Just a chapter: they make themselves known, solve some current issues like Afghanistan, and they tell the NATO and the UN to surrender unconditionally or face the wrath of the Angels of Death (while of course having Terminators on standby to teleport in on strategic locations like the white house and nuke control etc). Whatever the outcome of the 'negotiations', they would control key locations and bomb the crap out of everything else, starting with taking down all our satellites/comms tech. Military strongpoints would be under assault from an entire company (or more) and would be obliterated. End of story.

Garven Dreis
20-07-2010, 09:46
We seem to forget that we actually understand our own technology, therefore it's fully feasible that if they did not completely destroy us, we'd just deconstruct the tech, adapt it an improve it because we're not technology fearing like the 40k Imperium.

Think Tau with Power Armour, yeaaaaahhh

Castigator
20-07-2010, 09:47
havent you guys seen independence day. we shall not go quietly into the night yadda yadda yadda...(inspiring speech). then we hi-jack one of their ships, fly up to there mother ship and implant a virus into their main computer. just in time for us to rally our defenses and pull victory from defeat. simple, we win.

Nah.. that's why the Imperium would send a Callidus Assassin disguised as Martin Lawrence to take out Will Smith and you're that much closer to having conquered Earth.

Brother Luctus
20-07-2010, 10:11
…starting with taking down all our satellites/comms tech.

You’ve got the real issue of today’s Terra not standing too many a chance. We’re way too dependent on satellites and not really capable to do squat to defend them against a 40K Astartes fleet.

I’d say, 2-3 Chapters (or a pre-Heresy Legion) will be sufficient. It will take some time, that’s true; but defeating us and controlling the planet they could.

Gingerwerewolf
20-07-2010, 10:25
You've never read a Black Library novel before, have you?

On topic, it would never get to the point of war. I don't think there is a country on Earth that has the brass to say no to negotiations with the Imperium.

We would be welcomed into the Imperial fold, and you would all be Guardsmen. The end. = QFT

The Imperium would come and aggressively negotiate first. Explaining that they have the ability for Exterminatus, and that they would happily use it if we didnt concede.

If it came down to war, and the big guns of America, Russia, China and UK (and every other Nuclear equipped force) would try to hit the Imperial ships which would make the Imperium respond with an extremely deadly force. Exterminatus.

The Imperium would rather loose this version of Terra than have it resist.

The biggest problem we have to saying yes to Joining the Imperium is our current religions. Most wouldnt want to give up and believe in the Emperor of Mankind as their personal Saviours. The "Cults" (as the Ecclesiarchy would see them) of Christianity, Muslim, and every other established religion on our Earth would have to be completely crushed by the Ecclesiarchy, and I cant see them going down without a fight!

However if they did invade, would you sign up to the imperial Guard, knowing what you know?

UselessThing
20-07-2010, 10:55
The "Cults" (as the Ecclesiarchy would see them) of Christianity, Muslim, and every other established religion on our Earth would have to be completely crushed by the Ecclesiarchy

Nah - they just need a little reeducation to accept that the christian/whatever god is a facet of the Emperor.

A little local variation on how to worship Him is quite acceptable.

Gingerwerewolf
20-07-2010, 11:10
Nah - they just need a little reeducation to accept that the christian/whatever god is a facet of the Emperor.

A little local variation on how to worship Him is quite acceptable.

Hmm I think you are right, Earth domination is less about the Marines destroying and more about the Imperium "Negotiating" and bringing the Light of the Emperor to our backwater society.

Educate our heathen ways! ;) In Gloria Nomiae Emporatus!

Zweischneid
20-07-2010, 11:12
Nah - they just need a little reeducation to accept that the christian/whatever god is a facet of the Emperor.

A little local variation on how to worship Him is quite acceptable.

Not to mention that they're all quite young, 2000 years and less, and greatly divided internally at that. Just let Imperial doctrine work its way through the planet for another 1000 years or so. We expect a report on the main "Cults" back to the Ecclesiarchy every 50 standard years. If there are unexpected developments or they do prove particularly resilient 1000 years down the line, the Imperium might deal with it then (or.. it might simply defer matters another 1000 years if other things prove more pressing).

x-esiv-4c
20-07-2010, 11:33
Haven't we been over this several times? I think we concluded that they couldn't.

Philip S
20-07-2010, 11:40
Once the Imperial ambassadors and negotiators make it clear we are a colony of humans separated from our brothers thousands of years ago, that the Emperor walked among use in the ancient myths of Greece and Rome (thunder god) and is the core inspiration for all the world's religions, the grave threats out their that are coming our way, and that the Imperium want to help us to get ready...

How many would resist? I imagine humans being human, millions would - but politicians?

If a Space Marine standing in the background comes forwards and states his Chapter will guard Earth while we are vulnerable during the change over, would we really want to reject that 'help'?

I imagine that the underlay vibe, and how it is put, would make it clear that a 'no' is not really an option, that the Imperium would regard us as 'cowardly traitors' shirking our responsibilities, denying god, and probably cause the Inquisition to suspect chaos influence and even attack on our part.

If we did say no, and considering we have no STC, I think they type of warfare we can expect does not involve marines. Instead it would be orbital bombardment on a massive scale, and they have the fire power to wipe us out and ship in 'good' humans from another world.

How many marine would it take to conquer Earth? None.

They wouldn't even lift a finger.

We are not enough of a threat.

Philip

Malice313
20-07-2010, 12:28
A single marine could do it. Just read any 4+k novel and you will see I'm right.

The_Blind_Anarchist
20-07-2010, 13:27
I think after a few of our cities are bombed into oblivion and millions of deaths our governments would start to negociate a surrender..

RCgothic
20-07-2010, 15:53
I think that a single chapter, combined with aggressive negotiation, the brutal truth of the 40k universe, and a few object lessons would be sufficient.

We've made around 5000 sattelite launches EVER. There have been fewer than 1000 launches into geostationary orbit. We frankly have no ability to threaten an orbiting war fleet in any way, and even if we could get a nuke into contact with a starship that can accellerate 100x faster than the missiles we're firing at it whilst returning fire, AND get it past the void shields, see Battlestar Galactica for how useless nukes are against an armoured target in a vacuum.

Also, most of our global C3 would be useless without the afformentioned satellites, which are sitting targets.

How many marines would it take? Less than a chapter and their support fleet.

Zweischneid
20-07-2010, 18:20
How many marines would it take? Less than a chapter and their support fleet.

Nah.

Support fleets are not allowed in a standard SM FOC, their Bolters only shoot 25 meters or so and they cannot even throw their grenades.

Marines would lose. :eyebrows:

The_Blind_Anarchist
20-07-2010, 18:26
25 meters? Cannot throw their grenades? How did you work this out? I think just one Chapters fleet is capable of subduing our planet... especially when we have zero means of striking their space ships back..

Lothlanathorian
20-07-2010, 18:28
Nah.. that's why the Imperium would send a Callidus Assassin disguised as Martin Lawrence to take out Will Smith and you're that much closer to having conquered Earth.


This. And, after that is done, they'd induct Jesse Ventura, Arnold Schwartzeneger and Sylvester Stalone into the Guard so they could show the Catachans how real men kick alien ass.



Haven't we been over this several times? I think we concluded that they couldn't.

I am pretty sure you are mistaken/deluded. I've never seen this topic before:rolleyes:

Green-is-best
20-07-2010, 18:37
Haven't we been over this several times? I think we concluded that they couldn't.

I was just marveling that it was Tuesday already. How quickly the days pass.

Zweischneid
20-07-2010, 18:38
25 meters? Cannot throw their grenades? How did you work this out? I think just one Chapters fleet is capable of subduing our planet... especially when we have zero means of striking their space ships back..

25 meter ~ 24" to scale.

Never mind me.. was a bad stab at the threat :angel:

Lord Malice
20-07-2010, 23:47
Unfortunately my post got eaten yesterday so I'm coming a little late to the thread but anyway.

Why do people always go on about tanks and outnumbering the marines? Rubbish.

This ignores several key issues. Firstly the US, UK and many other EU countries have been fighting for the last decade and our troops, other than being on the opposite side of the world from their home countries and thus unable to instantly come to their defence, are in no position to take on a company of Astartes let alone a whole Chapter. There are numerous regiments that have been on constant turn around for years, contending in many instances with a bunch of blokes on bikes using leftover soviet weapons. A friend of mine died in Iraq driving his land rover on a patrol and was caught by two IEDs, a vehicle which gets its protection most of the time by the troops using it laying a few metal slabs on the floor, this is not adequate for the wars we are fighting against insurgents, most often civilians with weapons, and certainly no defnece against an enemy that comes out of no-where in a Thunderhawk whose own personal armour is better than that on a battle tank.

The second issue is that we aren't yet out of the global recession, no country could afford to wage such a war at this time and co-ordinating an effective military strategy against an opponent which can strike at any point on the planet and fall back to a strike craft in space is an enemy that no modern army could hope to contend with Astartes or otherwise.

I'll go back to my example of New Orleans after Katrina hit, the entire city was on the verge of total anarchy within four days and it would be child's play for the Astartes to destroy a nations fuel stockpiles, the loss of wich would mean the effective end of rule of law in any country within one week or less. Add to this the ability to cripple the energy grid by destroying power stations and the like and you would have a complete societal break down in quick order. The Astartes wouldn't need to fight us, everyone would be too busy fighting each other for the rapidly dwindling food supplies and the whole western world would be very easily starved into submission.

If their was any resistance then cracking open the San Andreas Fault with a couple cyclonic torpedoes, breaching the Three Gorges Dam et cetera would be more than enough to dissuade any such partisan violence.

No modern military would be effective against the Astartes for the simple reason that they would never have the opportunity to face them.

CKO
21-07-2010, 00:09
So you guys believe it would take more than a company?

7'6 agile robo cops that have minature grenade launchers as automatics, not to mention orbital bombardment.

Son of Sanguinius
21-07-2010, 02:19
So you guys believe it would take more than a company?

7'6 agile robo cops that have minature grenade launchers as automatics, not to mention orbital bombardment.

You're asking how many of a military unit would it take to do something that it doesn't do.

That's like asking how many US Navy Seals it would take to occupy Iraq. That is not what the Seals are intended for. They, like the Space Marines, are highly trained special operations units.

Philip S
21-07-2010, 12:52
That's like asking how many US Navy Seals it would take to occupy Iraq. That is not what the Seals are intended for. They, like the Space Marines, are highly trained special operations units.
I totally agree with that statement.

As far as I can tell it's all based on context and everyone is thinking of different contexts!

In a massive marine blunder, so huge that it has never happened, where they end up on open ground facing superior forces who are armed with, um, 25mm chainguns etc. and perhaps a tactical nuke on the way, I guess the marines are screwed. However this is not sounding like 'marines'...

Much like the Japanese concept of 'strength' includes skill as a fundamental component, so the marines major strength is their mind, their skill.

The marines match their strengths against their opponents weaknesses, and the marines are very good at doing this (apparently).

A marine looking at our world would probably opt for orbital bombardment. We can't fight back. Why would a marine even bother coming down to earth when they can destroy us from above? They can sit up their and pick us off with impunity.

Once they locate our command and control (and our world is pretty much in ruins, or at least our military bases and deployment zones are) the could drop pod down, or teleport in terminators, but to be honest I think they wouldn't bother and just send bigger bombs.

The only time the marines would need to come down is if their enemy are tough enough to make it a less risky option.

If we had space stations and proper 40K style defences, then the marines will probably seek to disable such defences, and one disabled they move in and... orbital bombardment.

This is how I figure marines, on their own, would subjugate a world. They have limited options because of who they are. They are not peacekeepers or police, they can not do such missions, they cannot fight a conventional war going toe-to-toe. It's not what the marines are.

If the marines are paired with the IG, and are tasked with specific missions, I guess the marines would do things differently. I think the marines would be unhappy about it as their are relying on the IG to hold up their side of the war so the marines can do theirs. If the IG fail, the marines will want to go back to subjugating a world using their methods where they rely on only themselves to pull it off.

I think marines are often more than enough to take a world (on STC worlds with decent defences they take out command and control, disable world defences, and then blast the world to kingdom come). I think of marine force more as a battle barge (main weapon) with marines to make boarding actions to disable defences so the battle barge can take on even bigger targets than if it went toe-to-toe.

So battle barge is the first weapon, that it what is used, and if the battle barge is in danger the marines deploy to see if they can nullify that danger.

So I guess the story of taking Earth is 'can a battle barge destroy a world like ours?' and I think that answer is yes.

I know in stories the marines end up in the open, but, um, that's and exception to the norm. I imagine the codex and novels often talk about times where things have gone very wrong, where the marines are outside their comfort zone, and yet pull it off.

Philip

Son of Sanguinius
21-07-2010, 22:44
Would ICBMs be capable of reaching a craft in orbit?

It's more of a curiosity, seeing as even if it is possible, the shielding and defense weapons on even a strike cruiser would be enough to handle the missiles in my opinion.

m14xx1
21-07-2010, 23:02
Define conquer, and tell me how many marines it takes to launch virus bombs?

The_Blind_Anarchist
21-07-2010, 23:13
An ICBM probably could be fired at them and reach them but it would be a futile attempt as as you've said their shields and amour would take the damage with ease but also they could move.

Sunfang
21-07-2010, 23:40
Define conquer, and tell me how many marines it takes to launch virus bombs?

Yes please define conquer.

Son of Sanguinius
21-07-2010, 23:49
I'm guessing that the OP meant conquer as in pacify all significant resistance and establish a system of control, whether it be Imperial in style or otherwise.

Now ask me what significant means. ;)

Sir_Turalyon
22-07-2010, 01:24
Last time they tried they had at least eight legions (Night Lords were or were not present depeding on writer) and failed.

Brother Luctus
22-07-2010, 05:51
The only time the marines would need to come down is if their enemy are tough enough to make it a less risky option.

???
So, not coming down and using orbital bombardment would be a more risky option? A tougher resistance would be a less risky option?
:wtf:

Son of Sanguinius
22-07-2010, 06:12
I don't think he meant risky for the Marines. I think he meant risky for the mission parameters. Orbital bombardment works great if you're decimating a defense network, but not so well if you need a confirmed kill of an enemy leader or if you're trying to keep infrastructure intact.

Gorbad Ironclaw
22-07-2010, 06:31
I’d say, 2-3 Chapters (or a pre-Heresy Legion) will be sufficient. It will take some time, that’s true; but defeating us and controlling the planet they could.

And once you have deployed those two chapters to try and control lets say Beijing, or New York, or Cairo or London or whatever other major city you care to mention what are you going to do about the rest of the planet?
I don't care how super-soldiery Space Marines are you need boots on the ground if you want to control something and Space Marines just flat out don't have that.

So yes, they can bomb the planet from orbit but that's about it. Space Marines only work if everyone surrenders the moment they show up/after there first combat drop. For any sort of extended fight where they would have to hold ground they are completely incapable. Any sort of determined resistance would be beyond there ability to deal with, they just don't have the man power. And while they are much better than human soldiers we have seen time and time again that dedicated resistance fighters continue even in the face of high casualties. And every single time such a resistance gets lucky it would be a problem for a chapter.



You've never read a Black Library novel before, have you?

BL novels are more about "wee, space marines are awesome, lets make up some vague details so they win" than a field study in warfare. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't match up at all with history.


End result: An Imperial navy could bomb the Earth as much as they like(Whatever they are Space Marines or not is irrelevant). Space Marines, a tactical tool, useless at a planetary scale/controlling ground.
Unless there are billions of Guardsmen along with them a Chapter (or two, or five or ten) could not conquer and control a planet if there is any sort of determined resistance on it.

Gingerwerewolf
22-07-2010, 10:42
Long and the short of it:

Marines dont capture Planets, the Imperial Guard & Navy do with millions upon millions of troops, in hundreds of ships. If the Imperial Guard cant crack a certain nut, for example an Airforce Base or Bunker, then the Marines will send in an appropriate amount, which depends upon the thing being assaulted.

For us I see that being no more than a squad or 2

Philip S
22-07-2010, 13:22
Would ICBMs be capable of reaching a craft in orbit?

It's more of a curiosity, seeing as even if it is possible, the shielding and defense weapons on even a strike cruiser would be enough to handle the missiles in my opinion.
I'm not sure. I suppose with a bit of ad-hoc tinkering the could. I'm not sure it would do any good as Imperial ships are fast and could move (ICBM are not designed to actively seek a moving target). Plus I'm sure, as you point out, they are more than able to defend themselves.


???
So, not coming down and using orbital bombardment would be a more risky option? A tougher resistance would be a less risky option?
:wtf:
Context. I mean if the battle barge was vulnerable to the defence systems, a less risky option (for the whole force) would be to send in some marines to sabotage those defensive systems... like, um, the Guns of Navarone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guns_of_Navarone_%28film%29)! Then the battle barge can move in and go full orbital bombardment as usual.

The way I see it: the marines (troops) are there to take care of special ops, but the main firepower is the battle barge (or whatever ship they are using).

In taking on the world I imagine it is the ship that is doing the fighting, but every now and then marines are needed to take out things before the ship can engage.

However, against our world they (marine troopers) would not be needed as we have no defences worth mentioning (that can trouble a star ship).

Philip

gwarsh41
22-07-2010, 14:13
You've never read a Black Library novel before, have you?

On topic, it would never get to the point of war. I don't think there is a country on Earth that has the brass to say no to negotiations with the Imperium.

We would be welcomed into the Imperial fold, and you would all be Guardsmen. The end.

Agreed, all it would take is "Look how big we are and what are gun do... plus we can glass your planet in like 30 seconds"

All it would take is a few units of marines to drop pod onto the important locations (world leaders) take them hostage and blow everything up in the way... or just kill them and say "MINE"

Seriously, how would our tech deal with TDA, our guns wouldn't even breach PA!

Long and the short of it:

Marines dont capture Planets, the Imperial Guard & Navy do with millions upon millions of troops, in hundreds of ships. If the Imperial Guard cant crack a certain nut, for example an Airforce Base or Bunker, then the Marines will send in an appropriate amount, which depends upon the thing being assaulted.

For us I see that being no more than a squad or 2

Awesome spot in the first HH book. Guard are held at a bunker for say a month or so. a single squad of marines takes the bunker by walking up to the door and breaking it down. gogo TDA.

Green-is-best
22-07-2010, 15:59
Here's how you deal with TDA.

Dig a deep, narrow pit.

Camouflage said pit.

Lure terminator over pit.

Terminator falls in and has no way to get out.

Seriously.

sebold
01-08-2010, 10:41
Unfortunately my post got eaten yesterday so I'm coming a little late to the thread but anyway.

Why do people always go on about tanks and outnumbering the marines? Rubbish.

This ignores several key issues. Firstly the US, UK and many other EU countries have been fighting for the last decade and our troops, other than being on the opposite side of the world from their home countries and thus unable to instantly come to their defence, are in no position to take on a company of Astartes let alone a whole Chapter. There are numerous regiments that have been on constant turn around for years, contending in many instances with a bunch of blokes on bikes using leftover soviet weapons. A friend of mine died in Iraq driving his land rover on a patrol and was caught by two IEDs, a vehicle which gets its protection most of the time by the troops using it laying a few metal slabs on the floor, this is not adequate for the wars we are fighting against insurgents, most often civilians with weapons, and certainly no defnece against an enemy that comes out of no-where in a Thunderhawk whose own personal armour is better than that on a battle tank.

The second issue is that we aren't yet out of the global recession, no country could afford to wage such a war at this time and co-ordinating an effective military strategy against an opponent which can strike at any point on the planet and fall back to a strike craft in space is an enemy that no modern army could hope to contend with Astartes or otherwise.

I'll go back to my example of New Orleans after Katrina hit, the entire city was on the verge of total anarchy within four days and it would be child's play for the Astartes to destroy a nations fuel stockpiles, the loss of wich would mean the effective end of rule of law in any country within one week or less. Add to this the ability to cripple the energy grid by destroying power stations and the like and you would have a complete societal break down in quick order. The Astartes wouldn't need to fight us, everyone would be too busy fighting each other for the rapidly dwindling food supplies and the whole western world would be very easily starved into submission.

If their was any resistance then cracking open the San Andreas Fault with a couple cyclonic torpedoes, breaching the Three Gorges Dam et cetera would be more than enough to dissuade any such partisan violence.

No modern military would be effective against the Astartes for the simple reason that they would never have the opportunity to face them.

economy?modern military? faults!? this is the survival of our race and our planet god dammit! we will fight and we will die! :evilgrin:

and then perhaps nuke our entire world,... if we cant have it, no one can.....:angel:

Zweischneid
01-08-2010, 11:19
Here's how you deal with TDA.

Dig a deep, narrow pit.

Camouflage said pit.

Lure terminator over pit.

Terminator falls in and has no way to get out.

Seriously.

That, or have them step on an anti-tank mine.

Even assuming contemporary earth has no weapon able to penetrate Marine Power/Terminator Armour, basic explosives and internal concussions will do the trick nicely.

That said, even basic 1980s anti-armour tech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire) would be more than enough to open up any Terminator even if he's still sitting inside his Landraider.

RCgothic
01-08-2010, 11:29
And once you have deployed those two chapters to try and control lets say Beijing, or New York, or Cairo or London or whatever other major city you care to mention what are you going to do about the rest of the planet?

The marines aren't going to control those locations. The conquered/subverted indiginous forces are going to control those locations, whilst the marines move onto the next target that hasn't surrendered yet.

Tactical Retreat!
01-08-2010, 11:38
This thread has turned into "How many Marine ships are required to conquer Earth?" Since everybody uses the crutch of orbital bombardment everywhere in their examples, not SM troops.

This means that an Imperial Navy battleship could subdue Earth as easily as a fully loaded Battle Barge, so Space Marines themselves are worthless in conquering planets. As has been stated. Since page 1.

Yep.

Zweischneid
01-08-2010, 11:42
This means that an Imperial Navy battleship could subdue Earth as easily as a fully loaded Battle Barge, so Space Marines themselves are worthless in conquering planets. As has been stated. Since page 1.

Yep.

Doesn't work. As soon as we pick up on the Battleship coming out of the warp with course set towards Earth we would assemble Bruce Willis and his elite-team of oil drillers currently out of a job at BP. They would slingshot around the moon to land on the back of the Navy Ship and drill a hole to blow it apart with a Nuke placed inside the ship.

The Imperium doesn't even stand a chance honestly :evilgrin:

Tactical Retreat!
01-08-2010, 12:01
Doesn't work. As soon as we pick up on the Battleship coming out of the warp with course set towards Earth we would assemble Bruce Willis and his elite-team of oil drillers currently out of a job at BP. They would slingshot around the moon to land on the back of the Navy Ship and drill a hole to blow it apart with a Nuke placed inside the ship.

The Imperium doesn't even stand a chance honestly :evilgrin:

Then we strap some thrusters and cannons to the Notre Dame and make our own battleship.

Lupe
01-08-2010, 12:22
Then we strap some thrusters and cannons to the Notre Dame and make our own battleship.

There had better be a few Gatling guns in there... And a giant fething chainsword, which I have no clue what use might ever have, but everybody knows you can't have a proper battleship without a chainsaw...