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Hydex
20-07-2010, 14:10
Rule says you have to choose a point in Line of Sight as a target for the first rebound of a cannonball.

With TLoS, it seems to mean a cannon on ground cannot target anything behind a simple wall, even a large target :eek:

I mean, it can still be shot at if you target the wall and it rebounds far enough, but anything more than 20" away from the wall is simply unattainable??

It can't be true, right? I can see the Dragon but not touch it in an way?

Frosty_TK
20-07-2010, 14:16
If the second Artillery die (e.g. the "bounce") hits the wall, you destroy the wall and the shot is done. No, it doesn't matter if it's a giant or a squig. But It's only the distance the cannon ball covers after the first artillery die. Not including the first, because only the second one is referred to as "bounce"

Tower_Of_The_Stars
20-07-2010, 14:21
Large targets cannot claim cover modifiers for obstacles.

However, under the rules for cannons if a cannon ball bounces into an obstacle then the obstacle is destroyed, but the cannon ball travels no further.

Hydex
20-07-2010, 14:32
If the second Artillery die (e.g. the "bounce") hits the wall, you destroy the wall and the shot is done. No, it doesn't matter if it's a giant or a squig. But It's only the distance the cannon ball covers after the first artillery die. Not including the first, because only the second one is referred to as "bounce"

Hmm I was talking about the target point. If you can't see behind a wall, you can't target a point on the ground behind it to try to hit the monster. It's not really a cover modifier (as it's a cannon, there no cover), just about the target point which needs to be at a point you can see.

Of course you can try to destroy the wall first, but that will take two shots.

Tower_Of_The_Stars
20-07-2010, 17:41
Hmm I was talking about the target point. If you can't see behind a wall, you can't target a point on the ground behind it to try to hit the monster.

I really don't understand the problem here. You will still certainly be able to draw an "uninterrupted line" from the cannon's muzzle to some legitimate part of the large target, even though it is behind a wall. You can, therefore, target it. As mentioned previously though, the wall will serve to protect it if the cannon ball's initial bounce is in front of the wall.

some_scrub
20-07-2010, 17:58
You don't target the large target. You want to target a spot on the ground between the wall and the monster. Which you can't do because you (probably) can't see that point with TLOS.

jaxom
20-07-2010, 18:09
Why on earth would you want to target beyond the wall if a large target was close enough to take cover from the wall in the first place? You'd likely have exactly one result on the artillery die which would hit the target (barring an opponent who foolishly lined up his long axis to your cannon).

xxRavenxx
20-07-2010, 18:54
I think the issue he is raising is this:

O
0_________|_______ >


Giant on left. Cannon on right. Wall in middle. The cannon can see the giant, but cannot see any of the floor in front of the giant due to the wall. How does it pick a spot using True line of sight?

In the usual and wonderfull RAI vs. RAW, With RAI, I imagine the intention is you'd pick a spot near the giant since presumably a cannon crew would know to aim short. RAW... Presumably the giant is untouchable, dispite being as much as a foot behind the wall?

Tower_Of_The_Stars
20-07-2010, 20:33
I understand your question, sorry.


If you can't see behind a wall, you can't target a point on the ground behind it to try to hit the monster.

I agree that this is the way it reads in the rules.

However, as an Empire player, I am not overly concerned by this as the scenario you described is pretty cirumstantial. What concerns me is that an infantry unit in front of a large target can be used to much the same effect! NB infantry units can move!

jaxom
20-07-2010, 20:46
Fortunately, just like walls, shooting the infantry with a cannonball tends to destroy them too, albeit a bit slower.

Tower_Of_The_Stars
20-07-2010, 20:55
Fortunately, just like walls, shooting the infantry with a cannonball tends to destroy them too, albeit a bit slower.

True but there are clearly many expendable rank and file units in the game that can be used to exploit this ruling for cannons.

TAW
20-07-2010, 22:16
Doesn't this just force you to place the cannon shot on the giant (or other large beasty) and hope for an "on target". As you kinda are trying to shoot him out of mid air. I mean instead of typically shooting the ground with the cannon ball you be trying to shoot it in the chest....... a little bity harder to pull off.

Tower_Of_The_Stars
20-07-2010, 23:33
Doesn't this just force you to place the cannon shot on the giant (or other large beasty) and hope for an "on target".

You would first have to see the base, then, depending on the base size of your target, you would have to roll low on the artillery dice. You're probably looking at a 1/3 chance of hitting at best, more likely a 1/6 chance of hitting.