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MontytheMighty
22-07-2010, 03:04
I'm just interested in seeing how long the list is

I can think of Dune

set in the far, far future
there's a God Emperor, he has a plan for mankind, he was killed and a time of turmoil followed (the Scattering)...however in Dune it's clear that the Scattering was intended by the God Emperor, in 40k it's much more ambiguous whether the Emperor intended for the Horus Heresy to happen (I think most people would say that he didn't but who knows)

Starship Troopers (maybe?)

any more (pretty sure the list is long)

Son of Sanguinius
22-07-2010, 06:26
Moorcock, Lovecraft, Tolkein, Gygax

romans, aztecs, spartans, trojans, mongols, vikings

christians, jews, muslims, buddhists

etc., etc., ad infinitum

RunepriestRidcully
22-07-2010, 06:35
Dante's Divine comedy for the blood angels as well, and yes as Son of Sanguinius said Lovecraft, he is basically the father of the concept of the chaos gods, and as shown on Unspeakable Vault of DOOM: vault 341

Gingerwerewolf
22-07-2010, 10:23
Moorcock, Lovecraft, Tolkein, Gygax

romans, aztecs, spartans, trojans, mongols, vikings

christians, jews, muslims, buddhists

etc., etc., ad infinitum

Moorcock is a big one, if you read the old Realms of Chaos and have read any of Moorcocks books you can see its almost cut and paste. Heck GW produced models and rules in WHFB for Elric, Erekose and half of the Eternal Champions. Moorcock practically invented the Gods of Chaos back in the 60's

Alien(s) is a massive link, you dont need to have seen the films to see the link between it and Space Hulk.

The Original Starship Troopers Books (not the film) described Drop Marines (jump packs) who Deep Striked onto the Battlefield in Powered Armour. Robert A Heinlan is a god!

And of course since its story is Fantasy in Space, Tolkien has a LOT to do with it.

However in their defense, they do say that there are only 7 unique stories, and all the rest are just the same with minor differences.

Oh and definately Dune. All of it. Every last bit ;)

chromedog
22-07-2010, 11:08
Foundation.

Purely for the grand scale of the organisation that is the administratum.

A vast organisation ruled from a single hive world planet.

Deathworld - by Harry Harrison (7 books all up). The first three being:
1. Deathworld (1960) (serialised 1960 as Deathworld)
2. Deathworld 2 (1964) (vt, The Ethical Engineer, 1964) (serialised as The Ethical Engineer)
3. Deathworld 3 (1968) (serialised 1968 as The Horse Barbarians)

A precis of the world Pyrrus (the deathworld of the title).
"Everything on the planet is predatory, and capable of killing an unwary human instantly. All large animals are strong enough to destroy small vehicles. All small animals have neurotoxic venom. All plants are carnivorous, even if only by default—their victims fertilize their soil. All microorganisms consume insufficiently protected tissue as quickly as acids. On top of this, all the aforementioned life evolves so quickly that even Kerk and his Pyrran crew have to be retrained upon their return in order to survive. (life away from pyrrus 'makes you soft').

Because of this harsh environment, the settlers are engaged in a ceaseless struggle to survive, which—despite generations of acclimation and a training regime harsher than that of ancient Spartans—they are losing. Their numbers are less than when the planet was first colonized, and they are restricted to a single settlement. The world's very name is a reference to Pyrrhic victory, a success that comes at devastating cost to the victor."

Sounds like Catachan, right? Catachan would be a garden spot. Oh, and the guns all Pyrrans carry ... They fire rocket propelled explosive slugs. :D

MrSatan
22-07-2010, 11:10
Don't Forget Dune!

AndrewGPaul
22-07-2010, 11:24
Well, most of the Moorcock inspiration is second-hand - it's lifted from Warhammer Fantasy Battles, which lifted it from Moorcock's writing.

There's also the influence of 2000AD - the Adeptus Arbites are reminiscent of the Judges of Mega-City 1, and there's more than a hint of the Genetic Infantrymen in the Space Marines. And then there's Nemesis the Warlock - the xenophobic and fascist Terran Empire led by an immortal leader who has been several famous figures in the past - sound familiar?

Then there's the influence of mid-80s British society. V For Vendetta, Judge Dredd and Nemesis the Warlock were all left-wing criticism of the Conservative government of the time, and Warhammer 40,000 follows in their footsteps.

Oh, and Star Wars, in a twisted way. Imaging a Galaxy Far, Far Away where the Empire continued. Now, consider that no matter how terrible Palpatine's rule may be, it's still better than the other options.

AndrewGPaul
22-07-2010, 11:25
I'm just interested in seeing how long the list is

I can think of Dune


Don't Forget Dune!

Well, no. He didn't. :rolleyes:

malika
22-07-2010, 11:32
First of all Dune (just teasing Andrew here!). Other influences are whatever GW can pick their hands on. The Praetorians (and more specifically Massacre at Big Toof River) were inspired by the English soldiers who were defeated by the Zulus. WWI and WWII are a major source of inspiration for the Imperial Guard. Death Korps of Krieg got WWI Germans written all over them whilst the Catachans are all Dutch from Predator.

AndrewGPaul
22-07-2010, 11:41
I suppose there could be a difference between the things which have influenced the setting as a whole (Dune, 2000AD, Foundation, etc) and the things which have inspired individual events or things (the inspiration for various Imperial Guard regiments and Marine chapters).

Oh, one other thing; the 2nd battle for Armageddon is basically Operation Barbarossa but with Orks instead of the Wermacht. Hades hive is basically Stalingrad.

Malice313
22-07-2010, 11:46
4+k drew probably most of its inspiration from 2000AD's Nemisis the Warlock books 1-7.

Kevin Walker even did some illustrations for Rogue trader.

2000AD's Rogue Trooper had an influence in some of the weapons and certainly the Istvaan Drop site massacre. Some of the first IG miniatures bore striking resemblance to Norts and Southerners.

The similarities between Adeptus Arbitrators and 2000AD's Judge Dredd is just too close to be coincidence.

So I'd say 2000AD had a far, far greater influence on 4+k than Dune ever did.

AndrewGPaul
22-07-2010, 11:52
But then, Dune gave us Navigators, the balance of power amongst different elements of the Imperium (and even the name Imperium itself) and the distrust of technology. I don't think I'd like to say which is the greater influence.

chromedog
22-07-2010, 12:01
6 of one, half-dozen of the other.

Dune AND 2000AD in equal amounts.
With snippets of Foundation, Deathworld, etc filling in the details.

malika
22-07-2010, 12:02
Dungeons and Dragons were the primary influence for Warhammer Fantasy Battle of which 40k in the beginnings was sort of its sci fi version...

Philip S
22-07-2010, 12:40
Event Horizon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Horizon_%28film%29) is 40K :D

Also the Doctor Who episodes 'The Impossible Planet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Impossible_Planet)' and 'The Satan Pit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satan_Pit)'. These are set in 40K (date) and has all kinds of references to 40K (bolters, flat pack bases (STC) etc and something that looks like a Blood Thirster)

Along with Alien (I quite like Alien 3), Dune etc.

Philip

Lord Damocles
22-07-2010, 12:45
[QUOTE=Philip S;4846640Also the Doctor Who episodes 'The Impossible Planet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Impossible_Planet)' and 'The Satan Pit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satan_Pit)'. These are set in 40K (date) and has all kinds of references to 40K (bolters, flat pack bases (STC) etc and something that looks like a Blood Thirster)[/QUOTE]
Given that these episodes are relatively recent (2006), isn't it more likely that they drew inspiration from 40K, and not the other way around?

Philip S
22-07-2010, 13:16
Given that these episodes are relatively recent (2006), isn't it more likely that they drew inspiration from 40K, and not the other way around?
Oops. You are right. I misread the question. I was thinking of things that are 40K like and are inspirational for 40K.

Philip

barrangas
22-07-2010, 14:30
Given that these episodes are relatively recent (2006), isn't it more likely that they drew inspiration from 40K, and not the other way around?

Though Dr. Who is a source of inspiration for 40K. Compare Necrons and Cybermen. Also GW did produce some Dr. Who models back in the 80s I believe.

Londinium
22-07-2010, 16:26
Though Dr. Who is a source of inspiration for 40K. Compare Necrons and Cybermen. Also GW did produce some Dr. Who models back in the 80s I believe.

Eh I've always considered the Necrons to draw much more heavily from the Terminator movies fused with the usual tropes of an undead race rising from the dead. They are essentially Space Undead, they even have vampires just in a different form.

Green-is-best
22-07-2010, 16:47
Eh I've always considered the Necrons to draw much more heavily from the Terminator movies fused with the usual tropes of an undead race rising from the dead. They are essentially Space Undead, they even have vampires just in a different form.

Yeah, this is a pretty safe assumption. They did used to have a rule called "I'll be back" and all.

Pripyat
22-07-2010, 18:35
Armor by John Steakley (Marines vs Nids with Scouts)

Malice313
22-07-2010, 19:24
But then, Dune gave us Navigators, the balance of power amongst different elements of the Imperium (and even the name Imperium itself) and the distrust of technology. I don't think I'd like to say which is the greater influence.

That's a fair call. I can see your point.

Personally I see a greater reference to 2000AD as not only are there many concept similar, but there was such a massive referencing of imagery in the game that quite a few (i.e. not just Kevin Walker) 2000AD artists did work for GW.

Unless Frank Herbert has written for GW on occasion and I haven't noticed (which could have happened given I pay no attention to the pulp that BL churn out), or maybe Pier Luigi Basile or Benjamín Fernández kick in at the studios, I'd say that it is not similar.

AndrewGPaul
22-07-2010, 19:31
Unless Frank Herbert has written for GW on occasion and I haven't noticed (which could have happened given I pay no attention to the pulp that BL churn out), or maybe Pier Luigi Basile or Benjamín Fernández kick in at the studios, I'd say that it is not similar.

OK, you've lost me now. :)

barrangas
22-07-2010, 19:43
Eh I've always considered the Necrons to draw much more heavily from the Terminator movies fused with the usual tropes of an undead race rising from the dead. They are essentially Space Undead, they even have vampires just in a different form.


Yeah, this is a pretty safe assumption. They did used to have a rule called "I'll be back" and all.

Terminators are the second major source. Both being robot hordes, they share a lot in common. Consider though that Cybermen wanted to "upgrade" humanity while Skynet just wanted to wipe humans out. Necrons weren't originally machines, they harvest planetary populations for mysterious reasons, and then you have Pariah.

Remember, most of the people who work at the GW studios probably grew up on Doctor Who like people in the US grew up on Star Trek.

MontytheMighty
26-07-2010, 06:22
How could I forget Lovecraft, I knew I was missing something major

Son of Sanguinius
26-07-2010, 06:29
I said Lovecraft in the first response!

ashc
26-07-2010, 08:03
I said Lovecraft in the first response!

Lovecraft deserves to be mentioned twice :cool:

Malice313
26-07-2010, 11:32
Remember, most of the people who work at the GW studios probably grew up on Doctor Who like people in the US grew up on Star Trek.

Americans are unfamiliar with Doctor Who?:confused:

I remember seeing a Dalek in the back ground of a Better Off Ted episode.

Mind you in the same series they made a joke about someone being a "Tory loving Royalist", which is pretty obscure even in colonies like Australia.

RunepriestRidcully
26-07-2010, 14:52
Could the marines xenophobia possibly draw on the Daleks perhaps? the Eldar off the old series Time Lords? (ancient race, looked down on all others as barbaric, etc).
Maybe a dash of Terry Pratchett's Discworld maybe?

IJW
26-07-2010, 15:28
4+k drew probably most of its inspiration from 2000AD's Nemisis the Warlock books 1-7.

Kevin Walker even did some illustrations for Rogue trader.
As far as I can remember, Kev Walker's first 2000AD and first GW work were pretty much simultaneous.


So I'd say 2000AD had a far, far greater influence on 4+k than Dune ever did.
A big influence, sure, but far far bigger than Dune? Doubtful.

Navigators, the Imperium run by an Emperor, trading combines/Rogue Traders, the vast number of different personal fields in RT, ornithopters (although that's also a nod to Moorcock's Hawkmoon books) etc.

Ah yes, Hawkmoon. Moorcock's two science-fantasy Hawkmoon series are probably a bigger influence on early RT than his Chaos stuff - Legions in heavy armour, often with an animal theme, a previous age of technology which is barely understood by the current population, searches for ancient technology, flame-lances, big revolving towers that poop out big bubbles that bounce across the battlefield eating people (Ork Bubble-Chukkas, anyone?) and a mad empire controlled by the immortal King-Emperor Huon who survives in a life-preserving globular throne etc.

Over honourable mentions - the Jokaero are lifted fairly directly from Niven & Pournelle's 'The Mote in God's Eye' - which also had a previous higher-tech human empire whose goods can't yet be reproduced.

West End Game's Paranoia (GW were the UK publishers) added a certain amount of atmosphere, especially for robots. One early RT White Dwarf issue even included a crossover scenario!

And many many more...

totgeboren
26-07-2010, 15:54
As has been pointed out, Foundation is a huge source. The AdMec are more or less copy-pasted, I even think they had red robes and refractor fields. ^^

Malice313
27-07-2010, 02:17
As far as I can remember, Kev Walker's first 2000AD and first GW work were pretty much simultaneous.

D'oh! I meant Kevin O'Neil... *face-palm*

Pat Mills and Kevin O'Neil first published Nemesis (a large inspiration for the Imperium as I said in my previous post) book 1 in 1981. Book 7 was published around the time of Rogue Trader, by this time Kevin O'Neil had moved on from 2000AD.


A big influence, sure, but far far bigger than Dune? Doubtful.

Each to their own.:)


West End Game's Paranoia (GW were the UK publishers) added a certain amount of atmosphere, especially for robots.

Paranoia was a lot of fun! It was based heavily on Logan Run (which featured as an, albeit very different, setting in the back Rogue Trader), A Boy and His Dog and I guess to a lesser extent The Time Machine.


One early RT White Dwarf issue even included a crossover scenario!

Doing the (very limited ranges) of miniatures for both games may have influenced this more than similarities in the settings.

barrangas
27-07-2010, 04:25
Americans are unfamiliar with Doctor Who?:confused:.

The first episodes I saw was on the Public Broadcasting Station (PBS) in the 80s, which was late at night (mind you 9pm was LATE back then). They played Doctor Who in the 90s only on PBS at odd times or if you were lucky enough to get the Sci-Fi channel. There were definately fans of the show and references to Doctor Who, but not nearly as much as you would with American Sci-fi. It's not like it is today with the US taking popular British shows and turning them into crap.

I had a far easier time finding reruns of Lost in Space, Battlestar Galactica, and Buck Rogers then I ever did of Doctor Who. I'm betting over in England it was a different story.

MontytheMighty
27-07-2010, 06:39
I said Lovecraft in the first response!

ha yeah, was just a bit annoyed at myself for leaving that out since his mythos was all about a cold, indifferent, sometimes downright hostile universe, the understanding of which caused madness

RunepriestRidcully
27-07-2010, 09:29
I said it as well! and when you combine how the chaos gods originally were ment to be Lovecraftian dieties in the same league as Cthulhu, combine this with what you said MontytheMighty, and you could proberbly call Lovecraft one of the most important sources of 40k. Could the way the genestealer cult magus controlls people be based on the Mule from the foundation books?

ashc
27-07-2010, 09:37
It makes for an interesting boiling pot: Lovecraft, Starship Troopers, Dune, Judge Dredd, and many many more, all with a uniquely dark Britishness.

metal bawks
27-07-2010, 10:01
The second war for Armageddon is obviously based on the German invasion of the USSR in world war 2. The hive cities roughly correspond to 5 Russian cities: Hades=Leningrad , Acheron=Moscow, Tartarus=Stalingrad, Helsreach=Sevastopol, Infernus=Kiev (not sure about the last one). There were even 3 Ork clans just as there were 3 German army group.

Also, Ghazghkull's early history is based on Hitler's: he was a lowly Goff (the Ork clanknown as being militaristic and serious) boy who got severely wounded and then had visions of Orks conquering the Galaxy, just as Hitler was just a German (stereotypically known as militaristic and serious) corporal in ww1, got severely wounded and... well you know the rest. Yarrick and von Strab may be based on Zhukov and Stalin: Yarrick was moved to a remote position because Strab was afraid of his popularity (a similar thing happened to Zhukov), while Strab killed off all his family (as Stalin killed off the other communist party leaders) and was extremely paranoid (Stalin was paranoid later in his life and very afraid that his doctors would poison him).

The other influence for the Armageddon war is obviously Dante's Inferno (Commander Dante, the names of the rivers, hive cities, mountains etc.).


I don't think the Chaos gods are primarily inspired by Lovecraft, but by Moorcock. Lovecraft's "gods" (save the big N) are completely alien and indifferent to humanity, while the Chaos gods are the embodiment of humanity's primal, unrestrained emotions.