PDA

View Full Version : How are weapons re consecrated?



mob16151
23-07-2010, 02:53
First of all, sorry about the awkward thread title. My question is simple, how does the imperium go about re consecrating recovered Chaos weapons. For example the Gauntlets of Ultramar. (I'm using them because there well known, not because i'm a smurf hater.) What I want to know is, Who determines whether a weapon is salvageable, how do they go about re consecrating it, and whether this weapon is something, that the Imperium would keep an especially close eye on in the future.

Son of Sanguinius
23-07-2010, 04:49
I would imagine ritual purging of any tainted material, perhaps with newly forged replacement parts if necessary. Probably provided over by spiritual leaders, like Chaplains and Librarians in the case of Space Marines, as well as Techmarines.

Lots and lots of ceremonial praying.

TheOverlord
23-07-2010, 07:13
With the sweat, tears and blood of poor ol' Scrubber Boy Timmy the failed aspirant.

Sai-Lauren
23-07-2010, 11:50
Probably an exorcism, followed by praying, sprinkling with holy water, much use of incense and so on. And presumably some kind of sacrifice.

Kage2020
23-07-2010, 12:00
Aye. Look up reconsecration rituals in some religions, e.g. Wicca (http://www.angelfire.com/on/wicca/ToolConsec.html). Might be food for 40k thought.

Kage

Keichi246
23-07-2010, 13:29
By filing off the serial numbers and chaos iconography, gluing on some purity seals, and then hoping no one notices.. :D

"Yeah - those mighty gauntlets? They weren't REALLY chaos tainted - their warspirit was just really angry. Yeah, yeah... that's it - really angry...." :angel:

x-esiv-4c
23-07-2010, 13:45
Truth is, they are never fully reconsecrated :)

Sunfang
23-07-2010, 19:26
So precious calgar's gonna turn into spawn?

Kage2020
23-07-2010, 21:11
Well, that suddenly might explain his Avatar-whopping-self. :D

(Apologies. I don't want to go down that particular route in terms of discussion, but thought that I would throw that out.) :D

Kage

Son of Sanguinius
23-07-2010, 21:42
Shame on you, Kage. You know better than that. ;)

An...insufficiently reconsecrated weapon would make a wonderful little plot device.

Kage2020
23-07-2010, 21:55
Mea culpa. :D

Well, that and the typographic that says "whopping" rather than "whooping."

And good point about plot device. It also reminds me of the horror definition of "plot."

Kage

Lupe
23-07-2010, 21:57
It was a guardsman - I think in a Gaunt's Ghosts novel - that just picked up a weapon from a Chaos trooper, whispered a prayer to appease the machine Spirit, and started shooting.

Hope this helps, but in the context of "only war", I think that'll do...

Also, there are the corrupting weapons in Chaos Rising, which suggest that Space marines have quite some autonomy in determining what weapons they'll use... By the time someone notices, it might be too late...

MvS
24-07-2010, 08:55
I like to imagine Mechanicus priests chanting in binary while anointing joints and polishing surfaces with the equivalent of Holy WD40.

Before all of this I imagine there would also be 'holy' scanners that look for technical flaws / abberations. The Librarius may well supply senior psykers to establish just how 'tanited' the object to be reconsecrated is and whether it can be 'saved'. The Reclusiam would obviously be consulted as well and I imagine their prayers and purity seals, along with the Machine Cult prayers and purity seals, would also be part of the ceremony.

Bottom line - most Chaos tainted stuff will be destroyed out of hand by all loyal Marine Chapters. Only some items that are deemed too valuable and very clearly 'saveable' would ever be reconsecrated. In fact 're-consecration' implies that the items in question were consecrated to start with but were then somehow tainted. This might suggest why Marines would bother to try to 'save' such an item - it already has some sort of spiritual relevance to them.

As for Calgar's gloves, well these were 'saved' back before grand superstition hit the Imperium and also before awareness of the true dangers of Chaos were more common knowledge. Also, Guilliman was a Primarch, so he would probably be an excellent judge of what can be used without taint and what can't be (the bad choices of the Traitor Primarchs notwthstanding... :))

Son of Sanguinius
24-07-2010, 08:56
And if Guilleman wanted to keep them, who was going to countermand him?

Balgora
24-07-2010, 12:15
Shame on you, Kage. You know better than that. ;)

An...insufficiently reconsecrated weapon would make a wonderful little plot device.

is nobody else a little tired of the plot device of: "finding a demon weapon that guy 'thought was safe' but turned out to be the thing that pushed him over the edge into madness"

i wouldn't mind his gloves going crazy and punching him in the nuts or something though.

Kage2020
24-07-2010, 15:52
Hey, it's a 40k cliche because it happens all the time. Couldn't be a cliche otherwise. :D

Kage

Rylanor
24-07-2010, 15:58
It was a guardsman - I think in a Gaunt's Ghosts novel - that just picked up a weapon from a Chaos trooper, whispered a prayer to appease the machine Spirit, and started shooting.

Hope this helps, but in the context of "only war", I think that'll do...

Also, there are the corrupting weapons in Chaos Rising, which suggest that Space marines have quite some autonomy in determining what weapons they'll use... By the time someone notices, it might be too late...

You got part of it right. In Armour of Contempt, Trooper Merrt loses his lasgun during the fight for K'eth Shett Something-Or-Other, and to keep himself from being executed by the dick-ish Commissar he's been lumped with, Dalin Criid gives him the closest lasgun to hand, which just so happens to be a Chaos-tainted weapon taken from enemy dead. It's an old P.O.S., and for the rest of the book (and part of the next) it gives Merrt a hard time. It constantly backfires/gets jammed. It's also got the serial number 'O34TH,' which looks a lot like the word DEATH. But closer to the beginning of the (to my knowledge) last book in the series, The Lost, Merrt decides that he's had enough lip from O34TH and "masters" the weapon-- i.e., it apparently stops jamming, misfiring, and making him nearly shoot his own pals. This kind of ties in with one of the themes of The Armour of Contempt-- that Chaos only brings out the worst in humankind, and that if you can master yourself, you can deny Chaos. Which sort of relates to this discussion-- Chaos is said to absolutely corrupt everything it touches. But if you take what the amazing Dan Abnett has written for BL as canon, that can't be true-- Gaunt and his elite group of Ghost-assassins spend more than a year on a Chaos-tainted world without any aberration. By Chaos-tainted, I mean swirling-corposant-in-the-air, daemons-walking-around-in-the-major-cities tainted. So why would an ex-Chaos weapon need to be consecrated? Sounds like superstitious mumbo-jumbo to me. But then again, I could see certain weapons needing to be re-consecrated/destroyed/locked away by the Eldar so that no one could use dem.

Askil the Undecided
25-07-2010, 17:08
Rylanor: The point is you can't master Chaos forever, Chaos is inevitable. Like the fact that the sun gives us life also slowly destroys us with radiation and will one day expand to annihilate our planet. It's safe-ish now but tomorrow is another story.

The fact that Merrt "mastered" a (not particularly) chaos tainted weapon (for the moment) doesn't mean it's presence (or his) won't spread the taint to others, think of him as a carrier of a disease who has built up a precarious resistance, but if he grows weak the taint will touch him once more.

Also simply having suffered enough exposure to Chaos doesn't make you start growing eyes and tentacles where they have no business to be the knowledge of what you've seen is enough to taint you, and to let you spead the taint.

The Imperium isn't full of uber 'Nam veterans raving about the horrors within, without and beyond is because the soldiers who see that kind of thing are quietly killed off for the good of public morale.

Scalebug
25-07-2010, 20:36
+1 for a lot of the re-consecration being needless superstition...

There are levels of 'taint' here; The Gauntlets of Ultramar and the Axe Logan Grimnar uses are just artefact weapons that happened to have their previous owner being a champion of the dark Gods, and there are through-and-trough Daemon Weapons, that really can't be made safe (but it doesn't stop radical Inquisitors and Relictor Space Marines from tucking on a few purity seals and using htem anyway), and then stuff like Merrts gun somewhere in between.

With the Axe Morkai or Gauntlets, it is just a Dark age of technology lost knowledge weapon, they are not possessed by some warp entity, the previous owner probably had some cast iron spikes and chains added, but those come off in the techmarines workshop, then the Adeptus Mechnicus consult their libraries and make sure it is good and honest human workmanship underneath, and let the psykers scan it for residual taint, and off you go.

Askil the Undecided
25-07-2010, 21:10
Ah okay so Chaos doesn't twist those things that come into it's influence right?

You seriously believe the weapons of those who willingly accept mutations and worship creatures made of emotions that tear spacetime and crumple the rational order of the galaxy with muteable creatures of sentient energy don't get even a little messed up you are obviously underestimating Chaos massively.

blurrymadness
25-07-2010, 21:31
is nobody else a little tired of the plot device of: "finding a demon weapon that guy 'thought was safe' but turned out to be the thing that pushed him over the edge into madness"

i wouldn't mind his gloves going crazy and punching him in the nuts or something though.

Kinda reminds me of MarioKart 64 where you could lay down pickups that were really CHAOS TAINTED! er.. mines.

Scalebug
25-07-2010, 21:56
Ah okay so Chaos doesn't twist those things that come into it's influence right?

You seriously believe the weapons of those who willingly accept mutations and worship creatures made of emotions that tear spacetime and crumple the rational order of the galaxy with muteable creatures of sentient energy don't get even a little messed up you are obviously underestimating Chaos massively.

You would make a good puritan Inquisitor... ;)

As I said, there are levels of taint. Not everything touched by a diciple of the Dark Gods grow teeth and tentacles. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Askil the Undecided
25-07-2010, 22:43
True enough.

Some weapons are the same as their untainted counterparts, some are just deformed, some are possessed by weak mindless warp beings, other are possessed by deamons of various levels of power.

However all Chaos taint is insidious and can be exceptionally dangerous to unwary (and wary, prepared, sanctified and warded) people they come into contact with.

Amornar
26-07-2010, 03:44
Logan Grimnar's Axe of Morkai is a reconsecrated weapon too if I remember right. Although unlike papa smurf I have no doubts that the old wolf would challenge any chaos taint to a drinking contest, beat it handily and then roundhouse kick it back into the warp with no ill effects.