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Joe Cool
01-03-2006, 18:52
Probably been asked before, but this recently came up.

Two units charge a missile armed unit. One of the charging units is closer than it's normal movement value from the missile unit, the other is farther. Can the missile unit declare a stand & shoot charge response to the farther unit, even if the other unit is closer? The rulebook doesn't discuss the possibility of multiple chargers under charge reactions, and the rule itself isn't quite clear.

We came to the conclusion that the s&s CAN be declared, but agreed that it isn't logical (yea, I know...). Has there been an errata/clarification to the rule? How do you play this?

Thanks for the input.

Festus
01-03-2006, 19:04
Hi

It can be declared as a S&S, but it will automatically become a Hold! reaction as soon as any of the charging regiments is found to be within half its charge distance.

There simply is not enough time to fire the weapons.

Greetings
Festus

gukal
01-03-2006, 19:14
It makes more sense if you strictly follow the sequence of charges. One player declares all his charges - including two against a given unit armed with missile weapons. Once all charge declarations are complete, the second player declares all charge reactions - unit by unit.

The missile unit must declare one reaction to all chargers. This is why - as Festus notes - a Stand and Shoot declaration becomes a Hold reaction once a single charger is found to be too close.

- Gukal

Joe Cool
04-03-2006, 09:54
The missile unit must declare one reaction to all chargers. This is why - as Festus notes - a Stand and Shoot declaration becomes a Hold reaction once a single charger is found to be too close.

- Gukal

Great, this is how I've always played. Does anyone have a page reference for this? As I recall, the rulebook section on charge responses is a bit unclear.

gukal
04-03-2006, 19:03
Great, this is how I've always played. Does anyone have a page reference for this? As I recall, the rulebook section on charge responses is a bit unclear.

Follow the text literally and it will provide all the clarity needed. The choice is made on a unit by unit basis - not a charger by charger basis. "After you declare your charges, but before you measure whether chargers are in range, you opponant declares how each charged unit will respond. A charged unit has three response options: stand & shoot, hold or flee."
BRB, pg 45 (emphasis added).

Conceptually, this is true because enemy chargers who require less than half their charge move to reach their target "are too close, and there is insufficient time for the unit to shoot at their enemy." BRB, pg 61. So if a unit of peasant archers are charged by a unit of fell bats from 8" (i.e. less than half their 20" charge move), the archer have no time to react with shooting and must draw hand weapons and brace themselves. If that same unit is charged by these same bats and also a unit of Black Knights from 16" (extreme range for their 16" charge move), it strains all credibility to suggest the archers suddenly have sufficient time to shoot at the knights (while the bats pluck at their eyeballs).

If this is not enough, a GW game designer (Anthony Reynolds) has reinforced that understanding through unofficial channels. See below (exerpted from the Dire Wolf Q&A).

CHARGE RESPONSES

Q. How do you determine if a defending unit is ineligible to perform
a stand and shoot reaction?

A. To determine if a unit can perform a stand and shoot reaction, you
must calculate the actual charge movement expended (taking into
account wheels, difficult terrain, etc.) by the charging unit(s).
If one or more charging units can expend half or less of its charge
movement to complete the charge, then the defending unit may not
stand and shoot.
S. Rulebook pages 45, 46, 61 / Anthony Reynolds - Warhammer Design
Team / Direwolf FAQ Council Interpretation

- Gukal

Bortus
05-03-2006, 06:33
Sounds good to me!

WLBjork
05-03-2006, 08:59
Quick point to reinforce here - it's half charge move for Stand and Shoot, not normal move.

This is important as Flyers do not double their move.

Joe Cool
05-03-2006, 17:50
Thanks, gukal.

The main problem we had was that people took different charge responses for each charging unit. (Of course, not "flee" and "hold", for example.) The rulebook doesn't state that a unit only has one charge response; from reading the rules it could just as well be reasoned that a unit has a charge response for each charging unit. I totally agree with your reasoning, and the response from Anthony should be enough to convince most, but rules lawyering is alive and well :rolleyes: