View Full Version : Who exactly are the Lost and the Damned, do they get everything IG does?

26-07-2010, 20:24
Are Lost and the Damned renegade former IG armies that sided with Horus in the Heresy?

If so, considering its been 10,000 years since then shouldn't most of them have died since normal humans even corrupted by Chaos don't live as long as genetically enhanced Space Marines. Exactly how many of them are there in the Eye?

Lastly, does the Lost and the Damned have exactly the same equipment as the IG? Do they get Valkyries and Vendettas too, which didn't even exist before the last update of the IG codex in 2009 which presumably is way after the Horus Heresy.

I have a friend who runs a LatD army with multiple Valkyries and I don't think its very fluffy.

Son of Sanguinius
26-07-2010, 20:30
Lost and the Damned were an old side army that could take mutants and a few chaos toys alongside some standard Imperial Guard stuff.

They are supposed to represent mutant hordes, traitor guard, rebellious civilians, Chaos cults, etc. Hence the name.

I can see no reason why the Lost and the Damned could not get their hands on a few gunships, though if he's using the old lists, there is absolutely no room for them, as when those lists were made, the gunships weren't around in the meta game.

Crazy Ivan
26-07-2010, 20:44
You have to remember that Guardsmen (even complete regiments) go renegade all the time. If any of the Lost and the Damned are actually former soldiers of the M30 Imperial Army, they're certainly in the majority. As Son of Sanguinius says, they represent the rebellious civilians, soldiers and Chaos cults, as well as mutants. The most organized parts of the Lost and the Damned, and those with the heaviest equipment, would be former Guardsmen and PDF soldiers who turned to Chaos for some reason. So background-wise, it is totally viable that they have access to anything the Imperial Guard has (although, being Chaos, they might not be big on maintenance, and have a tendency to stick garden railings on everthing...).

26-07-2010, 21:18
The Lost and the Damned were an army list that was released in the Eye of Terror codex. It was supposed to represent the hordes of undesirables who seem to come out of the woodwork whenever Chaos attacks. Mutants, renegades, traitor regiments, gang members, icky things living in the sewers of a hive, beastmen, and the biker gangs of Lord Humungus all fall under that term. That codex is normally considered to be outdated and is not legal in any tournament that I know of.

Currently, "Lost and the Damned" armies are usually represented by someone taking Codex: Imperial Guard and painting 8 pointed stars on everything. Consider that all you need is for an officer to go all Marlon Brando and set himself up as a god amongst the natives, and you've got a traitor army ready to go. So it's perfectly fluffy for your buddy's army to have a bunch of Valkyries. After all, six months ago, they were the loyal servants of the Emperor.

26-07-2010, 23:36
My Nurgle LaTD are the poor conscripted wretches of an EoT Daemon World, press ganged into the Daemon Prince overlord's armed forces, probably to be thrown into an endless meatgrinder on some god-forsaken planet in the Eye. I feel that LaTD are all about the background - there is precious little of it, but it can be inferred that the dregs of Chaos are to the Traitor Legions like the IG is to the SM Chapters - numberless, faceless and superfluously diverse, meaning you can make your force uniquely yours.

To collect the army I am simply grabbing anything that fits the horrific nurgle theme - Plaguebearers (Blights) from Heresy, GUOs (GW and FW), Nurgle DPs, Soul Grinders, Chaos Spawn, Blight Drones, Cthonian Larvae from Rackham, the hideous creatures from Gribbly Miniatures and any other horrible slimy nasty monsters I can find will make up the daemonic/MC portion of it.

FW Renegades, IG tanks, Sentinels, Cold One Rough Riders - basically a Renegade IG army - will make up the human element, together with loads of 'cultists' (slaves/cannon fodder) made from Empire Flagellants and Catachans, FW Plague Ogryns, Zombies, and some mutants made using other random bits and green stuff.

Finally there will be a CSM part too, consisting of Plague Marines together with representative squads from each of the five unaligned CSM Legions - Night Lords, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Black Legion, together with some support Predators, Rhinos and Dreadclaws and a Dreadnought or two.

I'm sure I'll add some super heavies too, but not right away. I'm not going with Valkyries, because thats not how I see my Daemon World Dregs operating, plus fast airborne units are not in keeping with Nurgle's background, but I can see them being used by followers of the other three gods, particularly Tzeentch (imagine Valkyries and Vendettas dropping off Elysian Drop Troopers flanked by escorts of Screamers or Furies, with winged Princes and LoCs, plus skyboarding Champions on Discs!).

In the past I have started too many armies and gotten sick of collecting them, so collecting a LaTD force is my solution - once I have a HQ and two Troops choices from each different element I can play three different armies - Daemons, CSM and IG. However, I'm more interested in playing games with my friends were I can use everything, or mix and match - obviously I can't do this at a tournament, but I'm not a tournament player so this won't be a problem.

27-07-2010, 08:11
The Lost and The Damned is basically the catch-all term for traitor guard, chaos soldiers (those born and raised on a chaos held world and have never been part of the Imperium in their lives), cultists, mutant bands and other groups that are essentially anti-Imperium.

There could well be some who are Imperial Army Renegades - time flows differently in the Eye of Terror, and some may have been favoured enough to recieve chaos gifts.

And I wish GW would get their fingers out, do them as a proper army and stop focussing on Power Armour and Daemons for five seconds - if nothing else, they're saying that the Imperium is so powerful that only Chaos Marines and creatures of the warp stand a chance against them :rolleyes: . Meantime, Forge World (the Vraks books) and Black Library (especially the Sabbat Worlds books) present a very different picture indeed.

27-07-2010, 11:26
I like that there is no codex LaTD, because it gives every LaTD player free reign to make a truly unique army. I can walk into a store and play a pick up game with mine, all it takes is a quick explanation that they are drawn from diferent codices, and more often than not other players are happy to play against my force. However, if there was a codex, players would shift their expectations to the usual hard-and-fast legality, fuzzy interpretations of different rules etc, and everything would become restrictive and not representative of how I see the forces of the LaTD. Instead we would have some watered down version of IG with the option for 'Mutant Squads', plus some weak single-perspective background material.

metal bawks
27-07-2010, 15:00
Another way to represent the LatD is to use Codex: Orks. This works better for the "mutant horde + rusty ramshackle vehicles" type of army than the "traitor guard" type, of course.

Son of Sanguinius
27-07-2010, 17:04
Yes, but then you get the rather confusing image of an apostate cardinal screaming "WAAAAAGGHHH!!!!"

27-07-2010, 17:13
LATD is a catch all term for the cultists/mutants and other assorted psychos that follow Chaos, they can range from the highly trained, well armed and dedicated soldiers of the blood pact to the poorly armed suicidal charges as seen by the chaos cultists in the dawn of war games.

Look to the Vraksian lists for a couple of LATD armies, here they are over on lexicanum


28-07-2010, 00:57
You can certainly build a LatD list with the current IG codex. Include a Primaris Psyker as one of your HQ choices (an Arch-Heretic or Apostate Cardinal), no commissars (they would have been killed when the unit went rogue), you should include some psyker squads. Some Ogryns (big mutants) wouldn't be out of place. You could also add penal troopers (escaped convicts who joined the rebels) and any other codex choices you fancy.

Most of what will make them LatD is the fluff you create and the conversions you do. Such an army would be representative of one of the more organized Chaos forces like the Blood Pact or the Sons of Sek.

The IA Siege of Vraks books contain a LatD list that lets you add mutants, traitors and Chaos Marines to a LatD army but you would need your opponent's permission in most cases. There was a LatD list in the Eye of Terror codex that was basically some bolt-on additions to a normal Guard list.

metal bawks
28-07-2010, 09:38
Yes, but then you get the rather confusing image of an apostate cardinal screaming "WAAAAAGGHHH!!!!"

Yeah, it does sound weird at first, but can be explained by counting the Waaagh! as drug and/or Warp-induced fanaticism.

28-07-2010, 10:12
commissars can work - just rename them slave masters

28-07-2010, 10:30
I got and use a LatD army (see my sig), and they can represent a wide range of different armies.
The Ork codex can be used to represent a mutant horde that might be part of an invasion force from the Eye of Terror, whilst the Nids codex can be used to represent an even more warp-tainted army, with just crazed mutants and demoniacally possessed monsters.

However, the most common form of LatD are represented using the IG codex. These are standard humans that have defected from the Imperium or who might be born and raised in chaos controlled space.
Remember that there are lots of worlds who worship the Dark Gods instead of the Emperor, but where the barrier between realspace and the warp is intact.

The Crusade against Sabbath Worlds deals with these kinds of enemies, semi-normal humans with normal gear that follow the Dark Gods.

Also, there are many rebellions across the Imperium where the local PDF take up arms against the Imperial Governor, meaning they are really just an IG army rule-wise but with chaos stars painted on them.
The Alpha Legion and the Word Bearers are notorious for instigating uprisings.

All in all, having Valkyries and Vendettas is entirely appropriate, since they could be stolen, or produced on chaos-aligned worlds, or they could have been part of the formation when they turned against the Imperium.