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Monodominant
26-07-2010, 21:02
Okay, just to start... no special characters... otherwise you would see the high elf power house here...

Also I dont care about "ohhh broken" or similar concepts... I am trying to build a list with what I actually own so it might not be the most effective but thats where your advice comes through...

Archmage lvl 4 + Silver Wand (General) - 270

Mage lvl 2 - jewel of dusk, dispel scroll, elven steed, barding - 186
Mage lvl 2 - dispel scroll - 155
Noble - Great Weapon, Armor of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix, BSB - 168

Core

24 x LSG + Shield - 312
24 x LSG + Shield -312

Special

10 x Dragon Princes + Musician + Banner + Banner of Ellyrion - 345
20 x Phoenix Guard + Full command + Banner of Sorcery + Amulet of Fire - 400
20 x White Lions + Full Command + Lion Standard - 349

Total 2497.

Concept... Archmage + 2 Mages? Yea... The idea is that I want the big guy with offensive capabilities... 5 spells means being sure you have what you want (5 out of 6) cheaply. The 2 other mages are buffers... essentially they can make sure the rest of the army can survive... potentially I was thinking the big guy gets High Magic and the small ones get Shadow and Life.

The BSB gives re-rolls and is killy with his Str 6 and high I.

The core are deployed in long lines to avoid being crashed by stone throwers for the first couple of rounds and then going into their 6 x 4 boxes... the mages can help increase their longevity and effectiveness!

The Specials are where the meat it off course... PG are now an amazing Anvil that actually kills things... they have a 3+ save against spells just to keep em safe and its where the Banner of Sorcery finds its home. Probably the BSB is also here.

Dragon Princes on two lines means they can break ranks... it also means 15 attacks on the charge with str 5 and possibly rerolls...

Lastly White Lions...11 attacks of str 6 with potential re-roll? Yes please! Especially if they are buffed by one of the wizards...

So?

Ideas? Comments?

PS>

I didnt go for the Eagles cause although I have 3 of them imho they are not as cool as they used to... nor as usefull.
Also I took out the RBT and buffed the specials since I have been reading that they are not really worth it with their meager 2 wounds...

EbonhartLegions
27-07-2010, 01:33
being your BSB, your noble isn't allowed to take any other magic items so the armor of calemdor is illegal

NecronBob
27-07-2010, 01:45
He can take magic items as long as he doesn't take a magic banner. He's fine.

My suggestion:

I have found that I rarely have dice to power two mages, much less three. On those rounds where you roll 3 power dice and 1 from the banner of sorcery, that third mage is going to be a drain on your army (although it will give you some diversity in spells, I guess).

In my games of 8th, leadership tests have been key. I'd consider taking a prince for his leadership ten. Dropping the level the mage with the second dispel scroll would give you enough points for one, and even if you couldn't do anything but put a great weapon on him, I think he'd help you more than that 2nd mage.

If you do decide to run three, I hope you'll follow up and post here how it works. I'll be interested to see what you think.

TheKingInYellow
27-07-2010, 02:47
Yup, I agree with NecronBob, even with the BoSorc in there, you just won't have enough dice to feed the third mage.

My magic lists are almost always strictly L4 and L2 with Annulian Crystal.

HeroFox
27-07-2010, 02:53
Take those extra points for more White Lions and PG.

Marwynn
27-07-2010, 03:29
A few things:

Archmage with just the Silver Wand? Seems like a missed opportunity here. A cheap wardsave would be nice to have.

Did they errata Dispel Scrolls so that you could take more than one? It's an Arcane Item so you can't take the Jewel of the Dusk with a Dispel Scroll.

Also, consider the Banner of the Eternal Flame for one of your LSG units. Flaming S3 shooting attacks can come in handy.

And I'd add 2 more DPs. With 10 they only need to lose 1 before they can't break ranks anymore.

Eagles are still useful. They may not be AS useful as they were in 7th, but distracting the enemy for a turn or two makes them useful still. Granted, not every foe will have warmachines.

EbonhartLegions
27-07-2010, 05:04
sorry thought i had caught that mistake, my bad. i thought the gardian phoenix was a banner

Monodominant
28-07-2010, 16:45
just a brief question...

i have been reading about the "debate" over banner of sorcery... assuming most people giving comments on HE lists play with or against HE players... what do you see ON the table?

Do people get their 12 dice and then after the pool is down to a few dice roll for the additional?

I feel inclined to do so if I continue with my 3 mages plan... 15 dice is not so bad for versatility given by 3 lores.

Duck Dodgers
28-07-2010, 18:19
just a brief question...

i have been reading about the "debate" over banner of sorcery... assuming most people giving comments on HE lists play with or against HE players... what do you see ON the table?

Do people get their 12 dice and then after the pool is down to a few dice roll for the additional?

I feel inclined to do so if I continue with my 3 mages plan... 15 dice is not so bad for versatility given by 3 lores.

Nothing I know of says you can wait to roll on the banner; it generates the dice at the start of the magic phase. The result is that you get higher totals in general, but never get more than 12 even with the banner.

At least that's how we play it when I field my HEs.

NecronBob
28-07-2010, 18:25
There's a thread that argues it out, so you should probably go there if you want to discuss it at length. However, I think you'll find that most players believe that those add to your pool when you're generating your spells. You might be able to convince your own group differently, but you'll have problems with the other interpretation when you go on the road.

Jericho
28-07-2010, 19:01
The FAQ says that items that generate PD do so before any spells are cast. So if you roll 11PD and +2 from the Banner then you will be wasting 1PD, for example.

Anyway I definitely say fewer characters, better equipped, would be a way to improve the army. Very very squishy at the moment, some of my armies would be thrilled about that :)

Davemaddocks
28-07-2010, 19:13
This is almoast the same as what i take in 2k, appart from the characters.

I play a lot of skaven players and the 13th spell is the bane of my life so i tend to take the banner of the world dragon on the bsb, yes this makes him a lil squishy but i use my phoenix gaurd as mobile pew pew unit with the lvl 4 in there and keep it protected, they do just fine.

3 mages is probably a waste unless you take death with a lvl 4 mage and the book of hoeth and sun spam to get your dice back so you will actually have dice to cast the other spells.

The banner of ellryion on the dragon princes makes sense because the unit is so big. however 1 10 man unit is a waste imo.

do the maths vs a horde of rats 50 strong
Dragon Princes:15 attacks 11 dead on avg
mounts: 5 attakcs 1 dead on avg

Rats: 36 attacks back 2 dead elves

combat res elves win by loads however rats are stubborn probably ld 8 maybe with re rolls.

you now have a 350 point unit stuck in no mans land about to be swollowed up by a unit almoast half it points.

2 x 5 man flanking units would be better.

also you cant have multiple scrolls or a scroll in additioin to another arcane item any more. but i think someone already said that.