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Long_Fang
02-03-2006, 01:59
1) a unit O is getting charged by both units of X, Unit O Flees as a
response. Does unit O flee away from the larger X unit and if so.. what
happens if unit O flees out of the larger X units charging range but not the
smaller X units charging range? Are they destroyed?

XXXXX
XXXXX

OOOOO

XXXXX

2) Can a lone hero either on foot or on a mount, Rally and move in the same phase? What if he joins a fast cavalry unit?

3) Do fast cavalry rally automatically from a Flee response?

Xavier
02-03-2006, 02:27
2) No, unless they are in a unit of fast cavalry.. as far as im aware anyway.

3) No, they still have to rally hence why musicians are normally a good idea for them

Long_Fang
02-03-2006, 04:17
Isn't it strange how they can do it in Fast Cavalry, but not alone? They should be more agile alone, moving about in a heroic fashion!

T10
02-03-2006, 07:06
1) Apparently, the unit flees from the first unit to declare the charge.

2) The character would have to have the Fast Cavalry rule to be able to behave as Fast Cavalry while on his own.

The rules for Fast Cavalry allow the character to move along with the unit even if he isn't a Fast Cavalry model. This includes the special Rally-and-Move ability, but not the March-and-Shoot ability.

3) As pointed out, Fast Cavalry must make a Rally test as normal after a Flee response. Their special ability kicks in if the Rally test is successful.

If you need to put your mind at ease on this issue, consider that a normal Flee! reaction is not an orderly affair. Once the unit elects to flee, it is as in the same state as if it had been severely beaten in combat.

A Fast Cavalry unit that elects to flee is in the same state - or so it would seem! Once you have made the rally check it becomes clear wether they were actually routed or if they made an orderly, tactical withdrawel.

-T10

Major Defense
02-03-2006, 13:35
The rules for Fast Cavalry allow the character to move along with the unit even if he isn't a Fast Cavalry model. This includes the special Rally-and-Move ability, but not the March-and-Shoot ability.Huh? Did I miss a sentence? Anybody have a BRB handy to quote?

SuperBeast
02-03-2006, 14:23
Not to hand to quote, but it's at the end of the Fast Cavalry rules in the BRB.
It specifically states that mounted characters joining Fast Cavalry units benefit from all their rules, with the exception that they may not shoot if the unit marched.
So Unicorn or Great Stag joining a Wild Rider unit become fast cavalry, for example.

Festus
02-03-2006, 17:59
Hi

p.117

Greetings
Festus

Massacre
02-03-2006, 18:02
Maybe this has been changed but on page 269 of the rule book it says:

“if fast cavalry choose flee as a charge reaction, they rally automatically in their next rally phase and may reform facing any direction”

SuperBeast
02-03-2006, 18:08
Maybe this has been changed but on page 269 of the rule book it says:

“if fast cavalry choose flee as a charge reaction, they rally automatically in their next rally phase and may reform facing any direction”
It does but, unfortunately for fast-cav fans, it was errata'd here. (http://uk.games-workshop.com/chronicles/errata/assets/warhammer-rulebook.pdf)

mageith
02-03-2006, 19:41
1) a unit O is getting charged by both units of X, Unit O Flees as a
response. Does unit O flee away from the larger X unit and if so.. what
happens if unit O flees out of the larger X units charging range but not the
smaller X units charging range? Are they destroyed?

XXXXX
XXXXX

OOOOO

XXXXX

This is not covered by rules. The fleer flees from the charging "enemy". As far as I can tell, most players use sort of a vector and attempt to flee from ALL enemies.

The rule about fleeing from the largest enemy comes from breaking.

Since charges are done in strict declaration order, another possibility is to flee from the first enemy charger. But since only one charge reaction is made, the logical response is to somehow flee from all the chargers. However, no guidance is given on this either in the rules nor in the appendices that I know of.

Your diagram is the toughest one to deal with. Usually we leave it up to the fleer to determine a direction that best attempts to get away from all of the chargers.

Per a discussion with Gav over a year ago, It's possible the new rule will be measure the distance between the chargers and the target. Roll the flee dice and add it to the distance. If the charger still have enough inches, they catch and destroy the fleer. Otherwise the fleer survives and the chargers are backed up behind it like in pursuit. Of course, that still doesn't answer the question as to the direction of the chase or the flee.

Mage Ith

Mad Makz
02-03-2006, 23:16
Certainly the measure then dice method is the most fair, as it prevents people taking advantage of vagaries of positioning, unit size and other dubious movement methods (the dreaded front to back move!) in charges and keeps thing nice and simple. I believe it is currently accepted as the 'best' method for determining if a unit escapes a charging unit amongst tournament circles and it's certainly the way I work things out.

As for the direction the fleeing unit goes, basically we try for whatever is most realistic, using the methodology of: avoid charging enemy, avoid enemy, avoid friends, avoid terrain in that order of importance. I.e we try to have the unit at first running in a direction away form the charging models (i.e whatever direction counts as close as possible to directly away from any and all charging models (in that case sideways, either left or right would be fine), as well as (if possible) generally away from any and all enemy models (so if there were more enemy on the left side that they may pass, they would have a preference for the right side), then away from friendly models (so if they had no enemies on either side, but would run into friendly models with their flee distance on the right, they'd preference the left) and finally they would try and avoid terrain (in this case if they DID have friendly models on their left, and terrain on their right, they would run through the terrain on the right as it's preferable to running into friendly models. If they only had terrain on the right they would then run to the left.)

These are only guidelines of course, but they cover most normal situations adequately for my liking.

mageith
02-03-2006, 23:56
These are only guidelines of course, but they cover most normal situations adequately for my liking.
They don't cover this one.

Long_Fang
03-03-2006, 02:49
Alright, so, if the unit being charged runs away from both units charging it, both the units get a chance to catch and destroy it??

T10
03-03-2006, 05:46
Yes. Once the unit has completed it's flee move the charging units maneuver in an attempt to reach and destroy it. Any of the units that reach the fleeing unit will complete a full charge move.

-T10

mageith
03-03-2006, 06:12
Yes. Once the unit has completed it's flee move the charging units maneuver in an attempt to reach and destroy it.

Perhaps. The rule is a bit contradictory. If the charge fails due to the flee, the charger both moves directly toward the fleeing unit and as if it were charging. I've never seen anyone wheel in the middle of a failed charge, though I suppose it could be argued that one could.

FAILED CHARGE: "The unit is moved directly towards he intended target as if it were charging..." (52)

If the charge succeeds, than it is a Charge Move and the rules for manoeuvring during a charge apply (52) allowing a wheel at any one time during the charge.

Mage Ith