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eyescrossed
29-07-2010, 12:11
Hi everyone. I was thinking of starting Vampires since they're not so OTT in 8th.

I was wondering what everyone thought of my list.

Lord: Vampire Lord with the Flayed Hauberk, Talisman of Preservation, Dispel Scroll, Master of the Black Arts, Forbidden Lore (no clue which Lore - probably Light or Shadow) and Lvl3 - 440

Heroes: Vampire with the Crimson Gem of Lahmia, Dragonbane Gem, Glittering Scales (could be replaced with something else), Forbidden Lore: Vampires and Lord of the Dead - 200

Vampire with Dragonhelm, Black Periapt, Sword of Swift Slaying, Avatar of Death and Walking Death - 200

Wight King BSB with Walach's Bloody Hauberk and Luckstone - 150

Core: 25 Skeleton Warriors with FC and War Banner - 245

25 Skeleton Warriors with FC and Banner of Hellfire - 230

25 Crypt Ghouls with Ghast - 208

Corpse Cart with Unholy Lodestone - 100

Special: 25 Grave Guard with FC and Banner of the Barrows - 375

Rare: Varghulf - 175

Varghulf - 175

2498 points


So, how is it? I face Dwarfs, Tomb Kings, Lizardmen, Skaven and Bretonnians occasionally.

Should the Lord be more fighty and less killy? What Lore should my Lord have, too?

Thanks :)

eyescrossed
30-07-2010, 00:33
Nobody has any advice?

NecroMaster
30-07-2010, 15:11
well in 8th vampires have been screwed in many ways. First, in the rulebook, it says that a magic user may not wear armor unless it has it as an armour option, so the only way to purchase the flayed hauberk is to first purchase Avatar of Death. which is 20pts. That Flayed Hauberk is now going to cost you 45pts. Plus you wont be able to take Forbidden Lore or Master of the Black arts because that will put you over your limit for Powers. It sucks I know, but thats one thing they did to us Vampire players. You can find the rule on page 500 of the rulebook under Magical Interference on the right hand side. I would suggest going with the Crown of the Damned and skipping the armour altogether. LD for stupidity means you'll be failing it once every 2-3games or so and if you take a BSB you'll never fail. Good list other than that.

Rincewind
30-07-2010, 15:36
Your list is illegal - you need 25% from core choices and corpse carts do not count. Add some direwolves. :D

NecroMaster
30-07-2010, 15:50
Dire wolves dont count either, but anyways, you meet your minimum 25%. I have no clue what this guy is talking about?

However, now that I think about it, Varghulfs suck. I would only take one not two. I would shoot for a larger unit of Grave Guard. at least 30 strong so that you can utilise the horde formation. Go with a small unit of Zombies and Invocate the heck out of them because your opponent wont care about them anyway. Use them to bog your enemies elite unit down while you work your way around for a flank with your GG's. I hope this helps.

Rincewind
30-07-2010, 16:37
Oh, nevermind me, thought it was 3k. My bad! :D

PS. The Direwolf comment was in addition to the previous comment, as in "Add some Direwolves to eat enemy warmachine crew!".

eyescrossed
31-07-2010, 03:50
well in 8th vampires have been screwed in many ways. First, in the rulebook, it says that a magic user may not wear armor unless it has it as an armour option, so the only way to purchase the flayed hauberk is to first purchase Avatar of Death. which is 20pts. That Flayed Hauberk is now going to cost you 45pts. Plus you wont be able to take Forbidden Lore or Master of the Black arts because that will put you over your limit for Powers. It sucks I know, but thats one thing they did to us Vampire players. You can find the rule on page 500 of the rulebook under Magical Interference on the right hand side. I would suggest going with the Crown of the Damned and skipping the armour altogether. LD for stupidity means you'll be failing it once every 2-3games or so and if you take a BSB you'll never fail. Good list other than that.No. You said it yourself. If a Wizard has the OPTION for armour. Vampires DO have an option for mundane armour so can take magical armour. Nowhere in the rulebook does it say you need to HAVE mundane armour to get magical armour, just the option.

Thanks for the advice, though.



However, now that I think about it, Varghulfs suck. I would only take one not two. I would shoot for a larger unit of Grave Guard. at least 30 strong so that you can utilise the horde formation. Go with a small unit of Zombies and Invocate the heck out of them because your opponent wont care about them anyway. Use them to bog your enemies elite unit down while you work your way around for a flank with your GG's. I hope this helps.I was just going to summon Zombies with the FL Vampire. Why do you think Varghulfs suck? They got less vulnerable to shooting due to no Large Target bonus, AND they get Thunderstomp.

Also, I don't get why people like Hordes so much. The extra attacks barely compensate for the cost and loss of manueverability, and you don't even get all the extra attacks unless you're facing a Horde yourself.

I will probably take your advice and invest in a small unit of Zombies, though :)

Gokamok
31-07-2010, 10:31
First off, I think it's a decent list, and I guess you'll have fun playing casual games with it without any changes.

The reason some people aren't very keen on Varghulfs anymore, is that they're no longer allowed regen saves against crumbling wounds, which take away some of their survivability, but I agree that this is far outweighed by gaining Thunderstomp, since they can now actually grind down infantry blocks over a few rounds.
You could consider running a Black Coach instead of one of the Varghulfs, since the coach is just brutal with the new rules for powering up, and it will generally hit Ethereal around turn 2-3, making it a tough target to deal with for most armies.

Your Lord seems great, I'd personally go for Lore of Vampires on him, since Vanhel's with +3 to cast is just amazing; just 2-dice away and watch your opponent knowing that there's no way he can stop you from getting it through:D

I think you're paying too much for the 2 hero Vampires; they're not well enough protected to survive combat with elite units, and I don't think they add that much to the army's flexibility. I'd replace either one or both of them with Wight Kings, and spend the points saved on Fell Bats, Dire Wolves, Zombies or even a small unit of Wraiths.
I generally think that a WK with Great Weapon and Cursed Book is a bargain at 105 points; he hits hard, and if your opponent tries to direct hits against him, you can make them hit on 5's which will help the rest of your unit stay alive, and might win you the round of combat.

Have you considered Great Weapons on your GG? They are awesome with a Vanhel's on them for some "ASF 3+ to hit with rerolls, S6 Killing Blow goodness" (tm), and will be a threat towards anything your opponent can field.

I like the Lodestone Cart, just run it behind your infantry, and move it to where you need the extra raising or ASF the most. It's also a decently tough unit that your opponent will likely have to consider taking out, spreading his priorities a bit more.

/rant off

eyescrossed
31-07-2010, 15:55
First off, I think it's a decent list, and I guess you'll have fun playing casual games with it without any changes.
Thanks!

I only JUST noticed that Undead have Unstable now, though... Time to make changes... :cries:



The reason some people aren't very keen on Varghulfs anymore, is that they're no longer allowed regen saves against crumbling wounds, which take away some of their survivability, but I agree that this is far outweighed by gaining Thunderstomp, since they can now actually grind down infantry blocks over a few rounds.
Yeah, read the FAQ straight after you posted this. Feel kinda sad now.

Oh well. A new edition means a new mindset and tactics.



You could consider running a Black Coach instead of one of the Varghulfs, since the coach is just brutal with the new rules for powering up, and it will generally hit Ethereal around turn 2-3, making it a tough target to deal with for most armies.
What I don't like about the Black Coach is that it sucks up Power Dice, even when it's fully powered up. I bet if I fielded one it'd suck up 3-4 PD when I need them most.



Your Lord seems great, I'd personally go for Lore of Vampires on him, since Vanhel's with +3 to cast is just amazing; just 2-dice away and watch your opponent knowing that there's no way he can stop you from getting it through:D
Ooooohh! Good idea! :evilgrin:



I think you're paying too much for the 2 hero Vampires; they're not well enough protected to survive combat with elite units, and I don't think they add that much to the army's flexibility. I'd replace either one or both of them with Wight Kings, and spend the points saved on Fell Bats, Dire Wolves, Zombies or even a small unit of Wraiths.
Okay, I agree :)

I just feel I need something else to cast Vampire spells. Hmm... How about I put a Necromancer on that Corpse Cart?



I generally think that a WK with Great Weapon and Cursed Book is a bargain at 105 points; he hits hard, and if your opponent tries to direct hits against him, you can make them hit on 5's which will help the rest of your unit stay alive, and might win you the round of combat.
Wow! Great idea :)



Have you considered Great Weapons on your GG? They are awesome with a Vanhel's on them for some "ASF 3+ to hit with rerolls, S6 Killing Blow goodness" (tm), and will be a threat towards anything your opponent can field.
I dunno. If I don't get Vanhels off they're dead meat.

Also, how are they hitting on 3s if they have WS3?



I like the Lodestone Cart, just run it behind your infantry, and move it to where you need the extra raising or ASF the most. It's also a decently tough unit that your opponent will likely have to consider taking out, spreading his priorities a bit more.
Yeah, I agree completely.



/rant off
Psh, that ain't a rant :p

NecroMaster
31-07-2010, 17:09
Varghulfs suck: They suck becuse Regen has been dumbed down. Half the time you're not going to get a save because of how bad Regen is now. I've played 2 Varghulfs and even have two models but every time I do they get toasted. The new Lores are going to toast them for breakfast.
A combo I think would work good though is taking a black coach and using Lore of Death. Every wound you cause with the LoD has a chance of adding power dice to your pool. Can you imagine the possiblities with a Vampire. Cast the Purple Sun with 6 dice, get it off, cause 15wounds in one round and gain 6 PD back. Watch your opponents face as you start casting IoN while all his dispel dice are used up. Your doing 1-? wounds and possibly using no power dice to do it. With vampires I see the Lore of Death becoming a staple lore.
With the Black Coach even if it does suck 2 powerdice from you, with the Lore of Death you have a chance to gain those dice back and more. I will be trying this theory out tonight with my friends so I'll get back to you on the outcome. I have a feeling though that my opponents are going to castrate themselves when they witness the power of the Vampires once again!

:skull:MUHAHAHA!!!:skull:

Dont forget that Thunderstomp happens at the end of the combat not before. Your varghulf probably wont be alive to get it off. Dont say I didnt warn you.

eyescrossed
31-07-2010, 18:12
Varghulfs suck: They suck becuse Regen has been dumbed down. Half the time you're not going to get a save because of how bad Regen is now. I've played 2 Varghulfs and even have two models but every time I do they get toasted. The new Lores are going to toast them for breakfast.
How has Regeneration been dumbed down?

Oh, and half the time? Have you heard of hyperbole?

The new Lores are going to toast them? Only Fire (which nobody takes) and Light (one spell) and Metal (which can't even Wound the Varghulf except for Final Transmutation on a 6) have Flaming. The others would have to rely on their big spells of doom.



A combo I think would work good though is taking a black coach and using Lore of Death. Every wound you cause with the LoD has a chance of adding power dice to your pool. Can you imagine the possiblities with a Vampire. Cast the Purple Sun with 6 dice, get it off, cause 15wounds in one round and gain 6 PD back. Watch your opponents face as you start casting IoN while all his dispel dice are used up. Your doing 1-? wounds and possibly using no power dice to do it. With vampires I see the Lore of Death becoming a staple lore.
You talk as if Dispelling the spell isn't an option.

Got Irresistable Force off? I don't mind. Massive hurt via Miscast.

Other than that? Yeah, I guess it's a pretty good option :)



With the Black Coach even if it does suck 2 powerdice from you, with the Lore of Death you have a chance to gain those dice back and more. I will be trying this theory out tonight with my friends so I'll get back to you on the outcome. I have a feeling though that my opponents are going to castrate themselves when they witness the power of the Vampires once again!
I guess. Tell me how it goes :)



Dont forget that Thunderstomp happens at the end of the combat not before. Your varghulf probably wont be alive to get it off. Dont say I didnt warn you.
Dude, Varghulfs are I2. They'll be going last nearly all the time anyway.