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majzownik
30-07-2010, 17:40
I searched for this in all parts of the book I could have thought of to no result, so maybe any of you guys could help me?

How do you resolve spells that change characteristics of a unit when they target a multi-part / split-profile models?

For example: Wyssan's Wildform cast on a cavalry unit - do both rider and steed get +1S +1T? Or just the riders? Or maybe just steeds?

I would imagine that both, as the spell description says the whole unit gets the buff, but things get more complicated when you consider targeting characters with similar spells.
For example: The Savage Beast of Horros is cast on a character riding a warhorse. Who gets the boost? Spell description says its the model that gets +3A and +3S, and the model consists of a character and a horse.
So, is it +3 for both of them (making the horse S4 A4)? Or just the character? Or do you distribute the +3A and +3S among the model:eyebrows:?

The only thing that I found about parts of model that may be used as analogy is being hit by a template - everybody is hit, so it may be that everybody is affected by the spell.

I encountered this problem when I tried casting The Savage Beast of Horros on a skink chief riding ancient stegadon. The spell clearly states that the model gains +3S and +3A (even though its targeted at the character). So I started to count the attacks... 6S7, 4x4=16S6, 6S9 +impacts and stomps at S9...:wtf: this is just way too many to be true... On the other hand, would you NOT teleport the stegadon and skink crew when casting a Steed of Shadows on them?:eyebrows:

That's why I'm looking for help on this matter. If any of you guys could help me to find out ho this should work, I'd be very thankful.

Yrrdead
30-07-2010, 18:56
Well Savage Beast of Horros is the easy one imo. So I'll start with that. It only affects character's, it is very clear in the spell text not to use the word model or unit in its effects. So in your example it would only augment the Skink Chief.


As for Augment spells that are "unit" buffs, it seems to be that all parts of a multi-part model will benefit. So in the case of a unit of cavalry both the mounts and riders would benefit from the +1A and +1S.

majzownik
30-07-2010, 22:35
Well Savage Beast of Horros is the easy one imo. So I'll start with that. It only affects character's, it is very clear in the spell text not to use the word model or unit in its effects. So in your example it would only augment the Skink Chief.

Well the spell text uses the word model. It says:
"The model gains +3 Strength and +3 Attacks (...)"

I know it can only target characters, but does not mean it won't affect the monster. When I cast Steed of Shadows on a character riding a monster, they both move don't they?

Yrrdead
31-07-2010, 06:20
Well the spell text uses the word model. It says:
"The model gains +3 Strength and +3 Attacks (...)"

I know it can only target characters, but does not mean it won't affect the monster. When I cast Steed of Shadows on a character riding a monster, they both move don't they?

Granted but it still doesn't change the fact that the "model" only gains +3S & +3A. Regardless of how many parts it has.

majzownik
31-07-2010, 09:24
Granted but it still doesn't change the fact that the "model" only gains +3S & +3A. Regardless of how many parts it has.

So, how should I distribute those extra attacks and strength? Can I add Att to the steg? It's still the same model.

Yrrdead
31-07-2010, 19:07
I can't see that there is any guidance one way or another in this case. So If I were your opponent I wouldn't care where you distributed them.

xxRavenxx
31-07-2010, 21:22
Its awkward. Frenzy causes the same issues on mounted models.

Do the horses frenzy up too, or just the riders? Or do I pick on a per model basis? (Chaos knights might wish to use frenzied horses against a magic immune foe...) Its... iffy. I think at best we can hope it makes it to the next Faq.

Paraelix
01-08-2010, 00:09
I queried the Hobby Service team over this via email. Their conclusion was that spells like Woldform would effect all parts of the model unless errata'd/FAQ'd.

majzownik
01-08-2010, 12:38
What e-mail address are we to use for rules queries now?
Is it still: 'askyourquestion@games-workshop.com'?

Flitzz
01-08-2010, 15:00
On page 104 the rule book says that a character and his mount
are treated like a single character model for all rule purpose, except the special rules noted below that entry.
(the special rules for different mounts, chariots. etc)
So I would say that every part of the model benefits from a spell.

Paraelix
01-08-2010, 21:53
hobbyservice@games-workshop.com.au ... for Australia anyway >_>

Casshole
01-08-2010, 22:11
Yup Savage Beast on mounted monsters is where its at. Stegadon gets a huge buff from it. I like casting it on Elthariona nd Stormwing too.

if a cannon ball is gonna hit all parts of a rider/mount model, damn well better get the whole savage beast. Its not the called the wimpy beast of meh-os

Steed of shadows is more problematic, as the spell says target and not model. Dont see it FAQed at all either. I do love the image of a stegadon gettin carried by a big drake tho.

Stalfos
27-08-2015, 20:58
note that the Lore of Shadow attribute says the target of the swap must be the same troop type as the caster. I don't see any reason why both mount and rider would not benefit from wildform, the cauldron's Frenzy, and the like. In the cavalry rules it it simply differentiates special rules only listed on either mount or rider. My Dark Elves got a whole lot meaner after discovering this application for augments : )

ewar
28-08-2015, 01:06
I think that awful smell is the rotted corpse of this long dead thread.

Good work though! :D