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Spawn of Icarus
31-07-2010, 02:10
Hey guys this is mainly just for playing with a few friends if it can be tweaked to be more effective without being rewritten then awesome please tell me. Otherwise id quite like opinions on its strengths and weaknesses as it is as im still a new player.

Supreme Sorceress (Dark magic)
Level 4
Dark pegasus
Talisman of preservation
Life taker
Ruby ring of Ruin

20 Repeater crossbowmen
Shields
Full Command

20 Repeater Crossbowmen
Shields
Full Command

20 Spearmen
Shields
Full Command
Banner of Murder

5 Dark riders
Repeater Crossbows

20 Black guard
Standard bearer, Muscian, Kouran of the black guard
Hag Graef Banner

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers

Hydra

1946points
I wasnt sure what to put last few points into and means less messing about if i get some good advice to tweak the list slightly.


Im not a fan of non hag BSB's and currently have no plans to use a Bsb.
I also dont want to follow my High Elf friend's plan of throwing 800 of his 2000 points into lords and heroes. Hopefully people wont see the list and say "its another take on build x so change this part"... because i have no idea what the builds for Dark elves are like yet so wouldnt understand why im advised to change it

Spawn of Icarus
31-07-2010, 12:40
*Bump* Still no opinions?

Heracy
31-07-2010, 16:49
I haven't been playing Warhammer that long so not to sure how much my advice is worth.
First thing I suppose would be that you might want to think about whether or not its worth the 15 points to take the Standard and Guardmaster with your Crossbowmen. I've personally found that the extra BS on the GM is not worth the points and the 1 extra combat res is rarely going to make much of a difference.
Second would be maybe increasing the size of your Spearmen. They're essentially the cheapest unit Dark Elves have and they can work really well in large blocks, at least from what I've seen. So if you have the points maybe consider going for a unit of 40 / 50 and fielding them as a horde.
Last thing would be looking at the Lore of Shadow, it has some great spells for softening up the opponent, and Okam's Mindrazor is unbelievably effective when used on Black Guard. Average of +15 attacks, usually hitting on 3's, with re-rolls, then using their Ld 9 to resolve wounds, so wounding on 2+ and -6 to armor saves.

Spawn of Icarus
31-07-2010, 19:14
I had been contemplating he merits of a 40man spearmen unit, looked like it could be a laugh. I was thinking about 2 dice dark magic spam for the sorc

Voloch
31-07-2010, 22:04
I'd reduce you RxB to 2x10 and bolster both your DarkSpears and you Blackguard.

You need supoprt units, maybe 2x20 Darkspears to support your BGs.

Heracy
01-08-2010, 06:43
I agree with Voloch on increasing the number of Black Guard you have. You can only ever have them in units of 20, but the extra 5 allows you to soak up a few more casualties.

I would also recommend reconsidering the Hag Graef Banner. Black Guard with I 6 are going to strike before most units and they are already re-rolling all rolls to hit thanks to Warrior Elite. Personally I like running my Black Guard with the Banner of Murder, saving the Hag Graef Banner for a unit of Executioners.

If you still have the points left over, might also be a good idea to drop your Tower Master for Kouran of the Black Guard. He's striking at S 6, he's good when accepting challenges against enemies with a low Toughness. The best part about him for me is the fact that he makes the unit unbreakable so long as he is alive, and since he counts as the unit champion your enemy can't single him out, and either has to challenge him, or wipe out the rest of the unit.

Spawn of Icarus
01-08-2010, 12:16
I like the idea of upping the blackguard numbers and replacing tower master for kouran uses up most of the spare points to so thats a bonus will ammend the list to show it since its quite a small change rather than post a new one.

I gave BG the Hag graef banner as i will be playing high elves alot so my elite infantry needs to be able to hit their normal infantry first, i felt murder banner might make spearmen more useful as i prefer crossbowmen on paper.

Spawn of Icarus
01-08-2010, 14:15
By the way is kouran a 75 pt upgrade (if so for which unit the towermaster or a regular black guard) or is he just 75pts?

fivedollashake
01-08-2010, 14:30
It's cheaper just to give your tower master the crimson death. He'll attack at S6...the only thing you're losing in not taking Kouran is the armor. All those shots are nice, but I'd drop them to units of 10 maybe. Try to find a way to squeeze in 5 Cold One Knights...they are a great support unit.

Spawn of Icarus
01-08-2010, 15:10
If im doing my maths right 36points for a character thats harder to hit and makes the unit unbrakable doesnt seem that bad a deal :D Not sold on 5 man cold one knights esp as it cant deny rank bonuses.

Im getting the feeling people think 40 Rxb's are too many? so i was wondering if the army as a whole was too shooty for peoples tastes or if it was the cost of Rxb's vs spearmen (i personally thnk rbx's>corsairs>spearmen)

Spawn of Icarus
01-08-2010, 19:51
What im trying to establish is is the suggestion to reduce the rxb squads is due to smaller squads being more effective or there being too many in total.

Voloch
01-08-2010, 20:46
What im trying to establish is is the suggestion to reduce the rxb squads is due to smaller squads being more effective or there being too many in total.

I believe smaller ranged squads are more effective and cost-friendly. Smaller squads can do the same as larger squads, but allows you to chose between different targets or fire all at same target. The later gives you the same as 1 or 2 large squads. Second, more squads forces your opponent to deal with several squads instead of just a few. Third, if your RxB squad is forced to flee you only loose a small portion of your total ranged firepower.

Now, seeing that you are keen on ranged firepower I'd still lose some RxBs and either bolster your spearmen or get a second 5man dark rider with XBs.

Spawn of Icarus
02-08-2010, 17:58
Would taking it to 3 10 man squads be better in your opinion? it would give me 144 points to then look at another unit of something and thats before i look at reducing them from full command which would save more points.

I thought 20 mans + full command for the fact that they should be able to hold their own in combat as well as spearmen give or take (standing and shooting rather than +1 rank) but i can understand the point about targetting and being less manoverable.

Im tempted to look at breaking the list down into a 1000pt version to see how it fares with 10 man Rbx squads (before i go shelling out on extra models) but im not sure how to undertake that with my 2000pt choice of lord and rares.

any advice on braking it down too a similar 1000pts to test the idea?

Paraelix
02-08-2010, 20:41
Larger squads allow you to form up for combat and actually survive. With a base static res of 4 (+3 ranks and +1 standard) you're more likely to stick around. Plus, fully equipped, they benefit from a 5+sv and a 6+ parryward.

Spawn of Icarus
03-08-2010, 00:40
Id completly forgotten about the new parry save thats another feather in the cap over the spearmen,
Archers with 5+ 6++ save striking at init 5 in combat sounds even better now! :D