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Lugburz
02-08-2010, 00:06
A situation occurred when playing today. I was playing O&G, and we played the "Capture the watchtower"scenario. I manned the tower with 35 night goblins, and the other player assaulted the tower, but lost combat and was pushed back 1". In my turn i rolled 6 for animosity for my garrisoned unit... What happens now? Do they stay put, or do they actually try to charge the enemy unit? That would force them to rank up in 1 rank that is 35 models wide in order to fit between the tower, and the enemy unit. I don`t know if units are even allowed to charge when being in a tower, that would place them outside the tower, but within 1" of enemies, and therefore illegal.

Anyway, I ruled that my unit was staying put, as I was teaching my girlfriend to play, so I didn`t want to over-complicate things, but what is the proper way to address this problem?

Ovassilias
02-08-2010, 06:43
I think u should treat the animosity test exactly as frenzy and buildings described in p127.

Units can never charge from a building but if they have a rule that forces them to move to the closest enemy they must do so by moving as close as possible to the enemy.

probably in a future update this would be addressed.

T10
02-08-2010, 07:26
Determine the closest enemy unit in line of sight of the building and have the orcs attempt to move into contact with that unit. Just remember that they move 1d6 in. rather than their normal move.

If the enemy is close enough for the orcs to reach they charge as described in the animosity rules (which trump the normal "may not charge out of buildings" rule).

Remember that the Orcs will have left the building before the normal charge declaration phase and may get to declare a "proper" charge if they aren't already in close combat. :)

Orcs rule!

-T10

Lugburz
02-08-2010, 08:12
Determine the closest enemy unit in line of sight of the building and have the orcs attempt to move into contact with that unit. Just remember that they move 1d6 in. rather than their normal move.

If the enemy is close enough for the orcs to reach they charge as described in the animosity rules (which trump the normal "may not charge out of buildings" rule).

Remember that the Orcs will have left the building before the normal charge declaration phase and may get to declare a "proper" charge if they aren't already in close combat. :)

Orcs rule!

-T10

But they would still have to charge with 1 rank that is 35 models wide (if you broke the unit trying to assault the tower the round before :p). That would kinda suck,

Ovassilias
02-08-2010, 08:21
@ T10

So...lets say i have a 40 strong zombie inside the tower (20 starting, raised to 40).
Since Books trump BRB as u say i can cast Vanhels on them, place the last rank 1" apart from the tower , cuase thats how the rules work when u come out of the building. So thats like 5*8 formation, something like 8"+1" from tower, and then charge up to 20".....+9" from coming out.

yeah sound pretty logic and the way rules where intented to be used.

T10
02-08-2010, 09:57
But they would still have to charge with 1 rank that is 35 models wide (if you broke the unit trying to assault the tower the round before :p). That would kinda suck,

Or even a trillion million orcs arranged ten miles wide!

-T10

T10
02-08-2010, 09:59
@ T10

So...lets say i have a 40 strong zombie inside the tower (20 starting, raised to 40).
Since Books trump BRB as u say i can cast Vanhels on them, place the last rank 1" apart from the tower , cuase thats how the rules work when u come out of the building. So thats like 5*8 formation, something like 8"+1" from tower, and then charge up to 20".....+9" from coming out.

yeah sound pretty logic and the way rules where intented to be used.

Vanhel's Danse Makabre does not allow you to charge units by simply moving into base contact with them.

The animosity rules do.

-T10

Makaber
02-08-2010, 10:51
Or even a trillion million orcs arranged ten miles wide!

-T10

Little known fact: A trillion million orcs arranged in a single rank, would actually form a unit over 2,500,000,000 light years wide!

T10
02-08-2010, 12:45
And that is a lot.

-T10

Caladin
06-08-2010, 18:57
The scenario forbids the unit from leaving it for any reason. The normal rules for buildings are a bit different, but the scenario is clear.

D'Haran
07-08-2010, 00:55
I've encountered a similar situation using a unit of Trolls, they rolled stupid and my friend and I ended up rolling to see what would happen since we disagreed.

T10
07-08-2010, 08:22
The rules for leaving a building are somewhat different in 8th ed.:

The unit is simply placed back on the table in any formation/facing and in contact with the building. Each model may not be placed more than their Movement x2 from the building and the unit may not move further.

The "We'll get 'em" result will have the unit leave the building (this uses up their d6 move).


The scenario forbids the unit from leaving it for any reason. The normal rules for buildings are a bit different, but the scenario is clear.

It seems reasonable that the scenario rules trump the army book rules.

-T10

Urgat
07-08-2010, 13:29
I played the same scenario with my gobs yesterday night :D


I manned the tower with 35 night goblins,

Well, you were not allowed to do that, it's 20 max. So I put my 20 archers in there, and they spent the game squabbling until they got assaulted, of course :p (two whole rounds of shooting at short range wasted, woohoo!). So in short, I can't help xD.
As for the unit forbidden to leave the tower, it only applies on the first turn.

Lugburz
08-08-2010, 10:46
None of us had any core units of less than 20 models, so the tower was unmanned until my night goblins actually broke his clanrats that had garrisoned the tower in turn 2 and took the tower :p.

I love the watchtower scenario, but I wish some of the rules for buildings were more detailed. I also wonder why the skaven and Orc watchtowers in the book was given a toughness and wound value :p, when you can`t damage buildings (except screaming bell/cracks call).

Haravikk
08-08-2010, 12:11
Well, as already said it seems the scenario rules would likely trump animosity in this case.

But for similar cases I'd say just discuss with your opponent; models aren't normally allowed to move more than a march move which they might have to do to form a super-wide formation, plus it's a bit silly. I'd maybe just agree on a sensible formation (or the formation they entered the building with) and just move the enemy back to represent the momentum of such a crazy charge.