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DarthBinky
02-08-2010, 21:17
Forgive me if this has been covered- I tried doing a search on the forums and could find nothing discussing it.

The "Magical Interference" rule on page 500 of the Gigantor Book says that a wizard cannot wear any armor and cast spells, period. It goes on to say that "the only exception to this" is if the wizard comes with armor as standard, or he has an option to take "'normal' armor." (As an aside, I find it interesting that GW chose to put the 's around "normal"...).

As you may be aware, the Old World's Vampires normally show up to battle wearing naught but a sword, and have no option to take 'normal' armor- although the VCAB does make a point of mentioning that Vampires do always have the option of taking magical armor if they wish. In addition to this, they do have the option of taking some special "Vampiric Powers", some of which grant them, among other things, a shiny suit of 'normal' armor. A quick read through the FAQ finds nothing that addresses this.

So am I mistaken or do armor-wearing Vampires (not including those who automatically come with armor, such as Count Mannfred) no longer have the ability to cast spells?

Symrivven
02-08-2010, 21:30
You already answered your question with the mention of the vampiric powers, vampires have an (actually two) option(s) to take normal armour and thus they can cast while wearing armour. Page 500 doesn't mention where that option has to come from and if you actually have to take that armour, just having the option is enough to be able to cast.

DarthBinky
02-08-2010, 21:33
But it's not an option to take armor, it's an option to take a Vampiric Power that happens to come with armor (and a weapon, and maybe other stuff, depending on the Power taken).

SideshowLucifer
02-08-2010, 21:34
Outside of Konrad there is no way to take a vampire who is not a caster even, which sucks when someone uses cupped hands to force a miscast on your general.
They also do have the option to take armor through their powers and they may always take magic armor.

DarthBinky
02-08-2010, 21:49
Outside of Konrad there is no way to take a vampire who is not a caster even, which sucks when someone uses cupped hands to force a miscast on your general.
They also do have the option to take armor through their powers and they may always take magic armor.
I understand that, and yes, that would suck. But that's not really the question- I understand that they'd still be technically wizards even if they couldn't cast spells, and thus would be affected by things that affect wizards.

Again, I addressed this. They have no option to take non-magical armor; they have an option to take "Vampiric Powers" and some of those powers happen to grant 'stuff', and that 'stuff' happens to include armor in some cases. And the rule for "Magical Interference" only references 'normal' armor (GW's words), so the "Vampires can always take magical armor" bit doesn't help.

Don't get me wrong- I run a wizard-heavy VC army, and I don't want to show up at a tournament or something and be informed that my Vampire wizards are unable to cast spells. I like to keep a level 1 Vampire with Dreadknight around my heavy cav to ION any casualties they take.

T10
02-08-2010, 22:19
Avatar of Death and Dread Knight both give the Vampire heavy armour, which is a suit of normal armour.

It can't be argued that a Vampire doesn't have the option of wearing armour: he simply has to take one of these powers.

Since he has access to normal armour he is allowed to take magical armour without penalty.

-T10

DarthBinky
02-08-2010, 22:34
edit- I give up. I'm gonna be pissed if someone tries to say my Dread Knight can't cast spells though.

sulla
02-08-2010, 22:47
edit- I give up. I'm gonna be pissed if someone tries to say my Dread Knight can't cast spells though.I haven't looked at the VC book in a while, but I thought the stuff at the start of the magic items section or the magic armour section addressed this and permitted them to use armour.

DarthBinky
03-08-2010, 00:24
I haven't looked at the VC book in a while, but I thought the stuff at the start of the magic items section or the magic armour section addressed this and permitted them to use armour.
It does- it specifically allows them to take Magic Armor. Which doesn't help in this situation, since the Interference rule specifies that it must be an option to take 'normal' armor.

It also doesn't jive with what T10 said- if they always have an option to take normal armor, then why the need to point that bit out in the Magic section? The "you need to be able to take normal armor to take magic armor" rule was around in the previous edition too.

And I know some rules lawyer is going to pick up on this at some point, and I'm not going to have anything to counter with other than "well, some guy on Warseer said you can't argue that." And when the RL is done laughing, I'm not going to have anything but violence to fall back on.

solkan
03-08-2010, 01:00
There's a fairly simple principle at work here: If the main rulebook says one thing, and the army book says something specific which overlaps, then the army book's rule wins.

All vampires are wizards and the army book says that all vampires can take magic armor. That means that all vampires can take magic armor.

DarthBinky
03-08-2010, 01:03
There's a fairly simple principle at work here: If the main rulebook says one thing, and the army book says something specific which overlaps, then the army book's rule wins?

All vampires are wizards and the army book says that all vampires can take magic armor. That means that all vampires can take magic armor.
I understand that. That's not the question.

solkan
03-08-2010, 01:14
I'm sorry, I missed that part because of how surprising a conclusion it was.

Nowhere in the book does it say that a wizard wearing armor of any sort can't cast spells while wearing armor. The statement "As a result most Wizards cannot wield the Winds of Magic if they wear armour of any kind - ..." isn't a rules statement unless you can manage to field something that is a "most Wizard". (My apologies for the sarcasm in the previous statement.).

DarthBinky
03-08-2010, 01:24
Hmm, interesting point. I like it! Thank you.

Paraelix
03-08-2010, 02:52
Avatar of Death and Dread Knight both give the Vampire heavy armour, which is a suit of normal armour.

It can't be argued that a Vampire doesn't have the option of wearing armour: he simply has to take one of these powers.

Since he has access to normal armour he is allowed to take magical armour without penalty.

-T10

That is not really a valid argument. That argument could be made to give normal wizards armour if there is a single Magic Armour they were allowed to wear, ie Warlocks or Empire wizards who have access to a single suit of Magical Armour. The reason Vamps can is because it is stated, quite clearly, in their magic item section pg85.

eyescrossed
03-08-2010, 03:24
That is not really a valid argument. That argument could be made to give normal wizards armour if there is a single Magic Armour they were allowed to wear, ie Warlocks or Empire wizards who have access to a single suit of Magical Armour. The reason Vamps can is because it is stated, quite clearly, in their magic item section pg85.

That's not really a valid argument either, since Vampires have the option for MUNDANE armour, and what you're talking about is Magical Armour that is an obvious exception to a rule.

T10
03-08-2010, 10:08
Hmm, interesting point. I like it! Thank you.

Wait - did you just conclude that the general rule (Wizards can't cast spells when wearing magical armour) isn't actually a rule because it applies to wizards in general?

Jeebus, it's tough selling you crackers.

-T10