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Taky
02-08-2010, 22:29
If you have character model outside unit but within 3 of his type unit which have more as 5 rank and file models can you roll +4 look out sir again magic misiles or direct damage spell?for example again fireball?

Macmiel
02-08-2010, 23:15
Yes, You can.

T10
02-08-2010, 23:42
It apperars you cannot.

The rules for shooting at lone characters (p 97) that allows for taking Look Out Sir! rolls do not mention spells, and the rule book FAQ only deals with spells that use templates.

-T10

Macmiel
03-08-2010, 01:27
Yep, sorry for my misleading as I was wrong. LoS! at 4+ while staying up to 3 inches from units is only against shooting attacks and template attacks.

Paraelix
03-08-2010, 03:54
Further question. There is nothing stating that a character loses LoS when every model in a unit is hit, is this correct?

Zaustus
03-08-2010, 05:21
There's no rule that says that, no. I guess that means that LO,S just removes the character from the number hit, and since there aren't any more models to step in, just hit all of the other models in the unit.

Eternus
03-08-2010, 12:34
Yep, sorry for my misleading as I was wrong. LoS! at 4+ while staying up to 3 inches from units is only against shooting attacks and template attacks.

Isn't there anything that says the equivalent to the 7th Edition 'magic missiles are treated as shooting attacks' in the 8th book?

Col. Dash
03-08-2010, 12:55
It was ruled at a tourney I was in recently that shooting type direct damage spells like magic missiles and 'ead Butt were LOSable.

Djekar
03-08-2010, 13:02
I'm not sure about Magic Missiles, but I think it's kind of weird to say that 'Eadbutt is LO,S!-able given that it is supposed to be a sniping spell.

As far as I can find though there is no "magic missiles = shooting" clause in the new rules which means that those lonely hermit wizards are fair game.

apbevan
03-08-2010, 19:56
Look out Sir says if you make the roll the character/champion does not get hit but the hit does still resolve against the unit.

If an entire unit of 20 with champion is hit and the LoS is successful you still roll 20 hits against the unit.

Stymie Jackson
03-08-2010, 20:18
If a lone character is hit by a shooting attack of any kind (including shots fired using ballistic skill, templates and so on) a "Look Out Sir!" roll can be attempted, provided there is a friendly unit consisting of 5 or more rank and file models of the character's troop type within 3".

So if magic missiles do not count as a 'shooting attack', how exactly do you distribute hits?

Page 42. Resolving unusual attacks. Such hits are resolved using steps 4, 5 and 6 of the rules for shooting. Note that this says "Spells being an obvious example" and goes on to mention the spell Fireball.

So spells do use rules for shooting attacks...namely MAGIC MISSILES and DIRECT DAMAGE categories. They do not nominate, choose or roll to hit like normal shooting attacks, but follow all the other rules for them.

Sounds to me like magic missiles count as a shooting attack and a lone character can claim a LOS sir role if they comply with all the rules for LOS. If you are arguing they are NOT a shooting attack, then pray tell how you distribute hits, if not as shooting. You just get to snipe with every magic missile spell? Of course not.

Clegane
03-08-2010, 21:19
If a lone character is hit by a shooting attack of any kind (including shots fired using ballistic skill, templates and so on) a "Look Out Sir!" roll can be attempted, provided there is a friendly unit consisting of 5 or more rank and file models of the character's troop type within 3".

So if magic missiles do not count as a 'shooting attack', how exactly do you distribute hits?

Page 42. Resolving unusual attacks. Such hits are resolved using steps 4, 5 and 6 of the rules for shooting. Note that this says "Spells being an obvious example" and goes on to mention the spell Fireball.

So spells do use rules for shooting attacks...namely MAGIC MISSILES and DIRECT DAMAGE categories. They do not nominate, choose or roll to hit like normal shooting attacks, but follow all the other rules for them.

Sounds to me like magic missiles count as a shooting attack and a lone character can claim a LOS sir role if they comply with all the rules for LOS. If you are arguing they are NOT a shooting attack, then pray tell how you distribute hits, if not as shooting. You just get to snipe with every magic missile spell? Of course not.


I concur with this sensible explanation.

Casshole
03-08-2010, 23:52
Yup the lone character LO,S is meant to protect him from any kinda of shooting.

However, magic missiles don't count as shooting. A good example- in the FAQ, the White Lions will not get their save vs magic missiles/direct damage. The White Lions cloaks specifically say shooting. Erego, mm/dd is not shooting.

Paraelix
04-08-2010, 01:08
Look out Sir says if you make the roll the character/champion does not get hit but the hit does still resolve against the unit.

If an entire unit of 20 with champion is hit and the LoS is successful you still roll 20 hits against the unit.

Some poor dude gets shredded by a mortar explosion and throws his lifeless body over that of his commanding officer... And gets blown to pieces again. 8th Edition, can you feel the love?

eyescrossed
04-08-2010, 07:19
Some poor dude gets shredded by a mortar explosion and throws his lifeless body over that of his commanding officer... And gets blown to pieces again. 8th Edition, can you feel the love?

Well, it works with Undead :p

In all seriousness, though... You can find abstract rules in any edition.

solkan
04-08-2010, 08:40
It certainly is unusual that they'd talk about magic missiles on page 41 if magic missiles don't follow the shooting rules. :rolleyes:

Ranhothep
04-08-2010, 08:56
Sounds to me like magic missiles count as a shooting attack and a lone character can claim a LOS sir role if they comply with all the rules for LOS. If you are arguing they are NOT a shooting attack, then pray tell how you distribute hits, if not as shooting. You just get to snipe with every magic missile spell? Of course not.

Well, the magic missiles use some of the rules from the shooting section. And it's not really sniping, since the discussion was about characters within 3" of a unit. The fact they get Lo,S now even while outside a unit is a new addition, so what was before (7th ed) a regular attack on a lone character should now be considered sniping? Just because a new possibility to avoid dmg was introduced for these characters?

Furthermore, some magic missilies state their dmg is distributed like shooting hits. If they were automatically considered shooting attacks, this clarification would be unnecessary.

Casshole
04-08-2010, 09:03
Page 41 points out how automatic hits work. All that part is saying is that magic missiles hit automatically, which is a big shocker. Unless im missing something on that page nothing says a mm is shooting.