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View Full Version : Why are Elves (Eldar) always depicted as "dying out?"



TheDireAvenger
03-08-2010, 20:32
In like every single Fantasy setting the Elves are a dying race. In Lord of the Rings, 40k (Eldar), Fantasy, etc

Why is this? Elves are always meant to be few and fading?

In the WHFB specific universe why are they dying out? Is it because they live on a giant equivalent of Atlantis that will suddenly plunge into the sea one day? Why can't Elves reproduce enough to keep a population stable? In 40k of course we know about their fall, creation of the eye of terror, etc but they are made up to be that way nevertheless.

My feeling is since the very SAME Fantasy settings always has them as very very elite and skilled they would be pretty overpowered if they weren't few in number and dying out. Although of course in 40k they get owned by the more elite Space Marines every time :eyebrows: (Avatars get killed left and right easy by the awesome Space Marines)

Iuris
03-08-2010, 20:36
Well, Tolkien's to blame. He "rebooted" the elves of past (quite different from todays' elves) into the form we all know, and since he's copied by everyone, when he made them a dieing race, most other authors follow the pattern.

threewolftats
03-08-2010, 20:40
what he said /\

Merus
03-08-2010, 20:41
Dwarves suffer from this in many Fantasy-scapes as well. The idea of a once incredibly powerful race that has fallen on hard times and is unable to see that their end is at hand seems to be a popular theme.

I'm not sure I agree with you on them "being owned every time" though; if anything this last bit seems intended to be inflammatory.

Lupe
03-08-2010, 21:12
Mainly because a race that can see and alter the future as well as do incredible things with the power of their minds would quickly take over the galaxy and wipe out humanity in the process if it was in its glory days, and 40K would be reduced to Eldar vs Tyranids and Necrons?

sycopat
03-08-2010, 21:20
My feeling is since the very SAME Fantasy settings always has them as very very elite and skilled they would be pretty overpowered if they weren't few in number and dying out.

Kind of answered your own question there really.

As to why exactly they're dying out in fantasy, I'm not sure that's the case really. I always figured they just have their hands a bit full with fighting a bitter civil war. Might be something to do with the massive magical vortex on the isle of the dead though.

Also, for a race that breeds slowly they aren't that tough, so constant warfare will have an affect on a population that needs 100 years to breed similar numbers to what humans can manage in 10.

Brettila
03-08-2010, 21:21
Have to agree with the whole Tolkien bit. However, it would be just as easy to say a race reproduces slowly, thus there are not that many of them. But, the same can be said of Orks. Why are they green, and vaguely piglike? Because D&D said so back in the 70's, and everyone, including George Lucas, (Gammorians) has followed suit ever since.

Caelnaethon
03-08-2010, 21:59
It's a combination of symbolism and practicality. Symbolically, Elves represent every culture and tradition trampled underfoot by the march of history. Their time is passing, and despite their flaws, that's something to be mourned. The effect is lost if they aren't dwindling in number or facing extinction.

Practically, although Elves are not always depicted as physically superior, they are almost always much longer-lived than other races. This necessitates a low birth rate, or some past catastrophe, to explain why their population numbers don't overwhelm everyone else's.

On top of all that, the Eldar are genetically engineered psychic super soldiers with superior technology to almost everyone else. They had to have some disadvantage. :)

Idaan
03-08-2010, 22:12
Have to agree with the whole Tolkien bit. However, it would be just as easy to say a race reproduces slowly, thus there are not that many of them. But, the same can be said of Orks. Why are they green, and vaguely piglike? Because D&D said so back in the 70's, and everyone, including George Lucas, (Gammorians) has followed suit ever since.
Actually, no. D&D orcs were grey from the start, just like in LotR. It was Games Workshop that invented green orcs, in some 80s issue of White Dwarf where some guy painted them that way cause he thought it looked cool. Then, Warcraft ripped off that and every other game followed suit.

Zothos
03-08-2010, 22:14
Well as to why they are always dying out I would say probably because its a simple plot device.

And to play devils advocate, Tolkiens Elves were not dying. They could never die, and if the body was slain the soul was sent to the Halls of Mandos in Aman to rest and sometimes be reborn in new flesh. The Elves in Tolkiens world were simply leaving Middle Earth. Death was the gift of men and completely different to the fate of the elves...

Oh, and Orcs of Middle Earth from the books were actually Black skinned. If i remember correctly the Hobbit and Return of The King animated films (which are horrible) predate Games Workshops take on Orcs. If i remember correctly those films came out in the 1970s.

Caelnaethon
03-08-2010, 22:30
(Avatars get killed left and right easy by the awesome Space Marines)
I'm a bit behind on the more recent codices; have there been more instances of this since the Calgar incident?

AndrewGPaul
03-08-2010, 22:31
For the best part of a millennium, you merely had to look around you in most of Western Europe to see the remnants of an older civilisation that achieved feats bigger than you could imagine - the Coliseum, aqueducts, roads, Hadrian's wall, etc. Not really surprising that the idea of a faded elder race came about.

Tolkein's elves were in decline because it was vital to the myths he was writing; if, as he intended, the history of Middle-Earth is the lost history of western Europe and England, then clearly the elves aren't here any more; Tolkien tells you why.

Iracundus
03-08-2010, 23:43
I'm a bit behind on the more recent codices; have there been more instances of this since the Calgar incident?

Yes. An Avatar has been bumped off in almost every 5th ed. Codex and supplement to date, and its previous victorious performance in the Iyanden vs. Tyranid battle has been retconned to have it be taken down by Carnifexes after stupidly challenging for a one on one "honorable" duel. In the latest WD 368, 3 Avatars get defeated by daemons.

If one plots on a chronological 40K timeline, there have been at least 8 Avatars defeated in the past 213 years (not counting the latest 3 in WD), and some of these are from major named Craftworlds.

Alfhedil
04-08-2010, 00:00
Because no-ones loves the pointy-eared-fair-skinned-pansies. Durned elfs. And because the Ultra-losers said that eldar weren't allowed in the "cool" club anymore.

Lothlanathorian
04-08-2010, 00:37
Well, how else are the relatable race supposed to be the new awesome inheritors of everything? That being Mankind, of course. Your audience is human, so the main, important race is human. The Elves were the race before and have to die off so we can be special instead of just hairless apes.

Also, Elves in most D&D settings are not dying races.

Malice313
04-08-2010, 00:39
Elves of mythology were associated with ancestor spirits.

Hellebore
04-08-2010, 01:10
Well, how else are the relatable race supposed to be the new awesome inheritors of everything? That being Mankind, of course. Your audience is human, so the main, important race is human. The Elves were the race before and have to die off so we can be special instead of just hairless apes.

Also, Elves in most D&D settings are not dying races.

Lothlanthorian beat me to it. Humanity are the main players and thus have to inherit the world which they can't do if the roxxors older races are still in the ascendency.

However Tolkien did write a book about the elves when they were world rulers - it's called the Silmarillion and it didn't sell very well (well, compared to his other books).

However, just as the requirement that your main characters be Caucasians in literature is no longer particularly necessary, audiences have imo become a little jaded with humans all over the place and are receptive to alien races etc as protagonists.

Children especially aren't biased, as evinced by popular movies with non human protagonists (Wall E, Planet 51, anything with animals).

EDIT: Caelnaethon here is the list I compiled in another thread:


Horus Heresy: Fulgrim kills an avatar (and this one I'm only annoyed about how pathetically it fights, not that it died to a primarch)
Codex Space Marines: Calgar kills an Avatar
Codex Chaos Daemons: Keeper of Secrets infiltrates a craftworld bypassing the most psychically sensitive deamon warning system in the galaxy and possesses an avatar without a fight...
Codex Planetstrike: Leman Russ tanks shoot a bridge and the avatar, unable to swim, is swept away setting the river on fire (there may be a dead avatar in codex imperial guard but I can't remember)
Codex Tyranids: Several Carnifexes kill the Iyanden Avatar - despite the avatar being the one that originally dealt the deathblow to the swarm leader. He was retconned from hero of the craftworld to paste on the floor.
Codex Blood Angels: The Sanguinor kills an Avatar
Latest WD: Three avatars are killed at once

Hellebore

Iracundus
04-08-2010, 01:18
Humans aren't required to be the protagonists in every story.

For example, in Moorcock's stories about Erekose, humans end up being the antagonists and any sympathy the reader might have for them is lost when the humans show themselves to be shameless liars, backstabbers, and racists against all the non-humans.

In the recent Avatar movie, the humans are portrayed as the antagonists. Just because the audience is human doesn't mean they cannot sympathize or cheer for a non-human protagonist side.

ForgottenLore
04-08-2010, 02:55
Actually, no. D&D orcs were grey from the start,


Orcs appear particularly disgusting because their coloration - brown or brownish-green with a bluish sheen - highlights their pinkish snouts and ears.

I believe this is not only one of the original sources for the green color, which GW only accentuated, but also the pig-like appearance of orcs.

As for elves, while Tolkien's elves themselves don't die, their civilization in Middle-Earth was dieing, and that set the stereotype for the next 50 years.

madprophet
04-08-2010, 04:07
The Elves in Tolkien's universe are simply going home. Elves in the Pini's universe are vital and on the ascendancy (I love plundering Elfquest for ideas on how elves and eldar work). Wendy and Richard Pini have probably done the best and most detailed take on elves ever. Haven't read Elfquest? Stop right now and do so - it's online and free at the official Elfquest website (http://www.elfquest.com/gallery/OnlineComics3.html):D

It has been pointed out that D&D elves aren't dying out but even the Eldar aren't doomed (any more than anyone else is in the 40k universe). While the craftworlds are in various states of decline and the Dark Eldar are hopelessly corrupt - there are plenty of Eldar exodite worlds where the pointy eared ones are flourishing. There may still be a future for the Eldar...:angel:

DarthMcBob
04-08-2010, 04:42
It has been pointed out that D&D elves aren't dying out but even the Eldar aren't doomed (any more than anyone else is in the 40k universe). While the craftworlds are in various states of decline and the Dark Eldar are hopelessly corrupt - there are plenty of Eldar exodite worlds where the pointy eared ones are flourishing. There may still be a future for the Eldar...:angel:

If by "future", you mean their biomass becoming part of a mighty Tyranid Hive Fleet, then yes, they will have one. Otherwise, no they won't. A small Tyranid fleet took out one of their Exodite worlds and a few spores from a dying Hive Ship soloed a Craftworld. Another Craftworld lost 4/5ths of its living members doing battle with them (I absolutely loved the bit about a Hive Tyrant not stupidly accepting a challenge from the Avatar and just having 12 Carnifexes rush it... It made me laugh trying to imagine the resultant slaughter :D). The Tyranids have eaten a dozen galaxies, so a little snack of Eldar would do nicely.

Note that this is a bit biased, due to my playing of Tyranids. However, I seriously doubt anyone else is not biases towards their own army.

barrangas
04-08-2010, 04:42
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people expect Elves and other humanoid races to be a certain way. I've seen people get bent out of shape when they aren't portrayed in a traditional fashion. If you've ever had to argue with a player that in your world Dwarven women don't have beards, you'll know what I'm talking about. Something inside me died that day, its just an arguement I'd never thought I'd have.

madprophet
04-08-2010, 05:41
Note that this is a bit biased, due to my playing of Tyranids. However, I seriously doubt anyone else is not biases towards their own army.

The Emperor's glorious Imperial Guard eats Tyranids for breakfast! :D

DarthMcBob
04-08-2010, 05:45
The Emperor's glorious Imperial Guard eats Tyranids for breakfast! :D

Pffffff... BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! The mighty avatars of the unstoppable Hive Mind consume guardsmen as a light snack before moving on to other prey. A dozen galaxies have tried to stop us. All have failed. What makes you think that you'll succeed? If you stripped every world in your galaxy of all biomatter, useful metals, the core, the oceans, and the atmosphere and turned that all into ships, troops, and weapons, then congratulations, you have 1/12th of all our forces. Good luck. :evilgrin:

TitusAndronicus
04-08-2010, 05:46
There may still be a future for the Eldar...:angel:

heretic.:evilgrin:

Nocculum
04-08-2010, 06:26
However Tolkien did write a book about the elves when they were world rulers - it's called the Silmarillion and it didn't sell very well (well, compared to his other books).

I believe this was more to do with Tolkien dying halfway through writing it, and his son, Martin, getting about to finishing it in his own hand. It might also be because it's virtually illegible to anyone without a translator :p



Horus Heresy: Fulgrim kills an avatar (and this one I'm only annoyed about how pathetically it fights, not that it died to a primarch)
Codex Space Marines: Calgar kills an Avatar
Codex Chaos Daemons: Keeper of Secrets infiltrates a craftworld bypassing the most psychically sensitive deamon warning system in the galaxy and possesses an avatar without a fight...
Codex Planetstrike: Leman Russ tanks shoot a bridge and the avatar, unable to swim, is swept away setting the river on fire (there may be a dead avatar in codex imperial guard but I can't remember)
Codex Tyranids: Several Carnifexes kill the Iyanden Avatar - despite the avatar being the one that originally dealt the deathblow to the swarm leader. He was retconned from hero of the craftworld to paste on the floor.
Codex Blood Angels: The Sanguinor kills an Avatar
Latest WD: four avatars are killed at once

Hellebore

Still, there's 89 of them left :D

madprophet
04-08-2010, 07:01
Pffffff... BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! The mighty avatars of the unstoppable Hive Mind consume guardsmen as a light snack before moving on to other prey. A dozen galaxies have tried to stop us. All have failed. What makes you think that you'll succeed? If you stripped every world in your galaxy of all biomatter, useful metals, the core, the oceans, and the atmosphere and turned that all into ships, troops, and weapons, then congratulations, you have 1/12th of all our forces. Good luck. :evilgrin:

I like you. You're silly :evilgrin: I wish I had an opponent like you to talk smack with while rolling some dice. Adds to the fun :D

Seriously though, I play 'Nids on occasion too. They're great in HtH but are fragile if hit with serious shootiness - how do you deal with template weapons? Heavy flamers and mortars can do some serious damage to a swarm.

DarthMcBob
04-08-2010, 07:20
I like you. You're silly :evilgrin: I wish I had an opponent like you to talk smack with while rolling some dice. Adds to the fun :D

Seriously though, I play 'Nids on occasion too. They're great in HtH but are fragile if hit with serious shootiness - how do you deal with template weapons? Heavy flamers and mortars can do some serious damage to a swarm.

A Mawloc or two tends to ruin enemy flamers' days. Also, the Hive Tyrant Psychic Power Paroxysm is awesome. If you use it on a powerful unit (or special character) and then charge a monstrous creature in, they are usually slaughtered easily. Also, it is really useful for reducing enemy shooty units to pathetic imbeciles who make Imperial Stormtroopers (from Star Wars, not 40k) look accurate. Zoathropes are good at taking out heavily armored vehicles. I've noticed that Mawlocs actually tend to have a greater psychological impact on an enemy than anything else. The knowledge that at any time they could be attacked anywhere, en masse, generally makes enemies nervous about clumping together. This nervousness is not unwarranted, as I have seen entire unites behind enemy lines swallowed up by Mawlocs in one turn. After they surface, getting into close combat is always good. They have good toughness and Hit and Run special rule allows them to exit combat next turn and re-burrow to attack again. :evilgrin:

ltsobel
04-08-2010, 08:11
Tyranids ninjaing the thread? :P

Hmm with all the talk of 30k i wonder if they would do a -40k where eldar are in charge?

MajorWesJanson
04-08-2010, 11:55
Tyranids ninjaing the thread? :P

Hmm with all the talk of 30k i wonder if they would do a -40k where eldar are in charge?

They came from...beneath!

Zweischneid
04-08-2010, 12:19
Well, Tolkien's to blame. He "rebooted" the elves of past (quite different from todays' elves) into the form we all know, and since he's copied by everyone, when he made them a dieing race, most other authors follow the pattern.

Yes.. but it is more complicated than that.

Elves (and, to a lesser extend Dwarfs) are fading in Tolkien's work because they are static; yet times are changing and the future belongs to beings that change with them; i.e. humans. They mark the difference between a pre-modern time where "time's didn't change" to a modern time where the world you know is different from the world your parents knew and your children will know. Alot in the LoTR reflects Tolkien's musing on modernization, industrialization, war, his "nostalgic" memories of childhood living in "the shire" in middle England.

Elves in Tolkien's books are also not "going home" in a mundane sense, but "passing into legend" in a very literal kinda way. They could opt to "stay", but doing so would entail "becoming mortal", i.e. accepting the passing of time.

Souleater
04-08-2010, 12:46
Because nobody likes a smart-alec :D

Eternus
05-08-2010, 11:48
Q. Why are Elves and Eldar depicted as a dying race?

A. Because they deserve it. And they can take the damned Tau with them.

Caelnaethon
05-08-2010, 13:25
EDIT: Caelnaethon here is the list I compiled in another thread:


Horus Heresy: Fulgrim kills an avatar (and this one I'm only annoyed about how pathetically it fights, not that it died to a primarch)
Codex Space Marines: Calgar kills an Avatar
Codex Chaos Daemons: Keeper of Secrets infiltrates a craftworld bypassing the most psychically sensitive deamon warning system in the galaxy and possesses an avatar without a fight...
Codex Planetstrike: Leman Russ tanks shoot a bridge and the avatar, unable to swim, is swept away setting the river on fire (there may be a dead avatar in codex imperial guard but I can't remember)
Codex Tyranids: Several Carnifexes kill the Iyanden Avatar - despite the avatar being the one that originally dealt the deathblow to the swarm leader. He was retconned from hero of the craftworld to paste on the floor.
Codex Blood Angels: The Sanguinor kills an Avatar
Latest WD: four avatars are killed at once

Hellebore
Back when the rule seemed to be that an Eldar had to be brutally dismembered or eaten in a story in every codex, I remember thinking that things could hardly get worse. I'm nauseated to discover how wrong I was.

Thanks for the list, regardless. :)

TheOverlord
05-08-2010, 22:43
Eldar = British Empire... in Space.

Finn
11-08-2010, 11:32
Tyranids ninjaing the thread? :P

Hmm with all the talk of 30k i wonder if they would do a -40k where eldar are in charge?


They came from...beneath!

I really can't resist -


Lictors: There are 4 of them in this thread.

And on topic:

What Hellebore et al said about there needing to be a symbolic elder race, one from which young humanity can learn (especially since this is a futuristic setting). There's also a little bit of the 'destroy the elder/father' theme in there, with humans being the Zeuses and semi-antagonistic Elves being the Cronuses.

gwarsh41
11-08-2010, 13:48
I am curious to what killed 4 avatars in the recent WD. That was the daemons WD right? did the skulltaker get his thing on and chop some heads?

MajorWesJanson
12-08-2010, 06:47
4 craftworlds were involved, but I'm pretty sure only 3 Avatars went down.

Son of Sanguinius
12-08-2010, 07:08
I am curious to what killed 4 avatars in the recent WD. That was the daemons WD right? did the skulltaker get his thing on and chop some heads?

I believe it was a Keeper of Secrets and his rainbow colored cohorts, with the assistance of Nurglesque sorceries.

Hellebore
12-08-2010, 07:11
4 craftworlds were involved, but I'm pretty sure only 3 Avatars went down.

Through the dark arts known as number manipulation we have saved an avatar! If we can reach our charity goal of $40,000 you too can be a part in saving 9 others. Give generously.

I'll change the total, although everyone's quotes won't be affected.

Hellebore

Son of Sanguinius
12-08-2010, 07:14
Through the dark arts known as number manipulation we have saved an avatar! If we can reach our charity goal of $40,000 you too can be a part in saving 9 others. Give generously.

Both my grandmothers are donating $1.50 US by check to the Save the Avatars Project (SAP), partly because I asked, and partly because they feel guilty for killing several Avatars with their hollow, rubber-tipped walking canes last week.

Lathrael
12-08-2010, 07:51
LOTR Syndrome.

Shamana
12-08-2010, 09:15
Well, if it's any consolation, the Imperium is kinda depicted in a probably-terminal decline as well. On the other hand, the Eldar have a harder time bouncing back - nearly impossible, really - due to their reliance on waystones to protect their souls. Given that there's no ready source of them , and that some are naturally lost in war and other causes, this means they must either leave their souls unprotected and start leeching others' a la the Dark Eldar, or keep their numbers down to match. Unless that headway they made in the EoT remedies this - iirc waystones are only found on crone worlds - and doesn't go very wrong for them, they can't not be dying out. Slower reproduction may be less of a problem - given that they may spend centuries practically brainwashing themselves to be better copies of one aspect of their war god, they could easily spend them mostly on reproduction. The problem is that they need to ensure their offspring would be taken care of, and it's the waystones that are the limiting resource here, I believe. Well, busting out Isha (if the story about her being still around) would help, too... but I kind of doubt they could manage it.

The avatars being pwned are the least of their problems. IIRC Avatars killed in battle eventually regrow in the center of the craftworld, and can then be "activated" again. I'm not sure how often that takes... I remember chancing on some old fluff in lexicanum that they are activated once per year, so I'd go from there. I'm more worried at how 2 minor (ish) craftworlds have been killed out since the start of 5E fluff - one iirc wiped out by an (afaik) unsupported Marine chapter and one practically soloed by a sparkling vampiric zoanthrope. Granted, both took some losses fighting against Tyranids before that, but still - craftworlds are supposed to be pretty hard nuts to crack.

Jayden63
12-08-2010, 16:49
Play more Shadowrun. Elves are alive and kickin there.

But seriously, elves, Eldar, etc. are dying out the same way our sun is. They have been dying for the last few million years and will continue to be dying out for the next few million years.

I think the more modern interpetation of a dying out race, is that they are not coming up with anything new. They are stuck using the "old" ways. Don't expect and new innovation from them. Doesn't mean that the old ways aren't powerful or effective. But they will not be the ones to invent the newest tech.

Balgora
17-08-2010, 03:48
If you've ever had to argue with a player that in your world Dwarven women don't have beards, you'll know what I'm talking about.
That explains so much about why dwarves are often a dying race :cries:
I know i'm offtopic but i couldn't resist.

Is it just me or does dying out in just about every fantasy setting mean "attacked from all sides by endless seas of spikey nippled bad guys".

Seems more like the writers want to write about epic battles with lots of casualties, wouldn't be a very good story if it started with "and for 2 millenia everybody else played hide and seek while the Eldar were getting freaky to Barry White"

Col. Tartleton
17-08-2010, 06:51
Well, if it's any consolation, the Imperium is kinda depicted in a probably-terminal decline as well. On the other hand, the Eldar have a harder time bouncing back - nearly impossible, really - due to their reliance on waystones to protect their souls. Given that there's no ready source of them , and that some are naturally lost in war and other causes, this means they must either leave their souls unprotected and start leeching others' a la the Dark Eldar, or keep their numbers down to match. Unless that headway they made in the EoT remedies this - iirc waystones are only found on crone worlds - and doesn't go very wrong for them, they can't not be dying out. Slower reproduction may be less of a problem - given that they may spend centuries practically brainwashing themselves to be better copies of one aspect of their war god, they could easily spend them mostly on reproduction. The problem is that they need to ensure their offspring would be taken care of, and it's the waystones that are the limiting resource here, I believe. Well, busting out Isha (if the story about her being still around) would help, too... but I kind of doubt they could manage it.

The avatars being pwned are the least of their problems. IIRC Avatars killed in battle eventually regrow in the center of the craftworld, and can then be "activated" again. I'm not sure how often that takes... I remember chancing on some old fluff in lexicanum that they are activated once per year, so I'd go from there. I'm more worried at how 2 minor (ish) craftworlds have been killed out since the start of 5E fluff - one iirc wiped out by an (afaik) unsupported Marine chapter and one practically soloed by a sparkling vampiric zoanthrope. Granted, both took some losses fighting against Tyranids before that, but still - craftworlds are supposed to be pretty hard nuts to crack.

Busting Isha out of Nurgleland might be the best idea for an Eldar centered (I'm sure it could happen) worldwide campaign thing. I'm naming this theoretical part two to "Eye of Terror" "Tears from the Eye" because its so creative. If they lose another irrelevant Craftworld we'd never heard of dies and things remain status quo. If they win absolutely nothing important happens in a foreseeable timeline! But 40k seems mildly less Grimdark (boo!)

A solid reason for races to join in. Eldar and Dark Eldar united to rescue their Queen. The Emperor sends a psychic vision to High Marshal Helbrecht and he becomes The Emperor's Champion and he and Commissar "Iron Pair" Yarrick abandon the hunt for Ghazhskull for a chance to possibly heal the Emperor (or at least give the God Emperor something to fondle) which adds the Imperium to their side. Chaos is the other side along with Orks, Necrons, and Tau who want to keep Isha, follow the Templars into the eye, Stop the Eldar from succeeding, or simply steal the Imperium's land respectively. If anyone was missed they can't be impor... Tyrannids are with the Orks and other bad guys ie. Hungrier then Paul Bunyan in IHOP on all you can eat pancake day.