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Quinn
04-08-2010, 23:36
This is the 3K list that I'm leaning towards for Ardboyz this year. I'm going to start play-testing it hard this week and see how it does, but any and all comments are welcome.

Characters: Sorc Lord of Tzeentch - General
Lvl 4, Disc
Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Blood of Tzeentch
Warrior Bane, Conj. Homun, 3rd Eye 440pts

Sorc of Death Magic In Knights of Khorne
Lvl 2, Chaos Steed
Infernal Puppet, Nec. Phy., Iron Curse Icon 186pts

BSB of Khorne In Warriors of Khorne
Hal/Sh, Bz Arm of Zhrakk, Helm of Many Eyes, Luckstone
Stream of Corrupt 224pts

Throgg In Trolls 175pts

The Lvl 4 Tzeentch Sorc is pretty standard build and 3rd Eye gives him the option of using other lores. I really like Death Magic and was tempted to go with that instead of Tzeentch, but decided to just add a Lvl 2 Death Sorc instead. The BSB is not the normal build going around, but I think he should be able to win a Challenge (with 5 St 6 ASF attacks) and survive until the Warriors win the combat, but this is the 1 build I may definately change. Throgg is great in a Troll unit.

Core: 50 Marauders of Khorne, Mus/SB, GWs 292pts

18 Warr of Tz, HW/Sh, Mus/SB
Blasted Std 366pts

17 Warr of Khorne, Mus/SB, Halb/Sh
Std of Discipline 352pts

5 Chaos Trolls 225pts

5 Chaos Warhounds 30pts

5 Chaos Warhounds 30pts

Special: 5 Chaos Knights of Khorne, Mus/SB
Banner of Eternal Flame 270pts

Rare: 1 HellCannon 205pts

1 HellCannon 205pts

Total:3000pts

Overall the army is completely different from what I was running in 7th, I just can't see running more than 1 unit of Knights (for the Magic/Flaming Attacks mainly) and can't really find room for any Marauder Horse in this list. I've had wildly sporadic results from the Hellcannons so far, either feast or famine but am determined to keep them in the list for now. I'm really convinced that Ardboyz will be a crap-shoot this year, but I'm hoping this list can deal some pain.

Quinn
05-08-2010, 05:57
This list is either perfect (which I doubt) or totally messed up..comments?..Help?

Dreadgrass
05-08-2010, 06:49
Okay, a few points (though to be honest its mainly personal preferance)

Characters: Sorc Lord of Tzeentch - General
Lvl 4, Disc
Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Blood of Tzeentch
Warrior Bane, Conj. Homun, 3rd Eye 440pts
Is 3rd eye terribly necessary? If you were running a more target-specific lore, such as Slaanesh, Death or metal (and yes, I know we can't get metal) or for a lower level mage, then I'd say go for it, but on a Tzeentch Lord I think its a bit surplus. Maybe consider transferring this to your death mage to give him options besides character sniping?

Sorc of Death Magic In Knights of Khorne
Lvl 2, Chaos Steed
Infernal Puppet, Nec. Phy., Iron Curse Icon 186pts
My only concern here is the fact he's with Knights, so he's potentially a target if they get into combat and you may find yourself choosing between a juicy charge, or a juicy spell target...

BSB of Khorne In Warriors of Khorne
Hal/Sh, Bz Arm of Zhrakk, Helm of Many Eyes, Luckstone
Stream of Corrupt 224pts
Interesting setup, not terribly sure how efficient the item setup is, you've got a decent but not great 4+ save, with an item that re-rolls saves, and ASF with only a halberd... He's by no means weak (what chaos character is! lol) but I think, with the plethora (3 points for vocab!) of good setups available to Exalteds that there are more viable builds.

Throgg In Trolls 175pts
Throgg is awesome, nuff said

I think you might have a little too much invested in your character lineup, its over 1/3rd of your army in a very elite-based list...

Core: 50 Marauders of Khorne, Mus/SB, GWs 292pts
Nice unit, can take a lot of punishment, and dish out a decent amount of Strength 5 attacks.

18 Warr of Tz, HW/Sh, Mus/SB
Blasted Std 366pts
I use this unit myself (though I like to bulk it out a bit more) and its gold against pretty much any opponent

17 Warr of Khorne, Mus/SB, Halb/Sh
Std of Discipline 352pts
Is there a particular reason for the Standard of Discipline? Again, not sure if its the optimal choice, a unit I use in the same role would be Warriors with MoT and Banner of Rage. I find its a touch more survivable and perma-frenzy is handy (also confers to the BSB so he doesn't need to be khorne)

5 Chaos Trolls 225pts
With Throgg this is an immensely scary unit

5 Chaos Warhounds 30pts

5 Chaos Warhounds 30pts
Still re-learning how to use hounds, they're really not much more than speed-bumps at this size in 8th but that too has its uses...

So a fairly allround Core complement that you could tweak a little if you like, but nothing overtly wrong with it as far as I can see.

Special: 5 Chaos Knights of Khorne, Mus/SB
Banner of Eternal Flame 270pts
Handy unit for artillery of big gribbly hunting, trying to squeeze one into my lists at the moment as well! lol

Rare: 1 HellCannon 205pts

1 HellCannon 205pts
I love hellcannons, mainly to anchor my lines flanks as, even if they don't drop daemonfire on your head, they'll chew you apart in combat!

So, hope thats helped a little? I didn't go into specifics for changes too much as its your list, but if you wanted suggested alternatives I can elaborate?

teleologica
05-08-2010, 12:11
I like the list, and generally agree with Deadgrass's comments. A couple of things I'd add:

L4 - definitely agree that 3rd Eye is excess weight here. If you're set on keeping the level 2, that's where I'd put it. Otherwise fine.
L2 - again, agreed that you've got too many points in characters (Edit: and monsters ;)) which should be bumping up your units. Throgg is absolutely brilliant, as is the sorcerer with puppet. However, I think you need to make the difficult choice and drop one or the other for some more bodies. Personally I'd drop 3rd eye and blood of tzeentch on L4, put puppet on him, and drop the L2. (I know the received wisdom is B/Tz is essential for preventing miscasts, but with 2 hellcannons I'd assume I'm miscasting in both magic and shooting phases and prepare for that :D).

BSB - I like the setup. A Ward would be nice vs Death / Buboes etc sniping, but on a hero you can't have everything. If this guy survives to get into combat (which I'd put at around 50/50), he'll mostly survive from then on.

Marauders and Warriors of Tzeentch are great. Khorne guys - not sure. I like +1Ld, but this might be better on the anvil unit, if you could bring yourself to drop the blasted standard on them. Banner of Rage is unequivocally better than Mark of Khorne; I'd do like DG and drop the Ld banner and Mark for B/Rage, perhaps with Mark of Tzeentch or not.

Trolls with Throgg - bleeeurgh! Love it.

Dogs - meh. Loved them in 7th. Not sure yet in 8th. What the hell, they're 60 pts, they don't have to do anything much to justify being there.

Knights - personal choice would be for the ignore terrain banner, but depends on your meta. If you're expecting to face anything with Regen, esp Aboms/Hydras, then flaming is better. And annoyingly, neither skaven nor DE seem to have gone away in 8th ... :rolleyes:

Against pretty much anything else, ignoring terrain is better, though also pricier for a glorified warmachine hunting unit.

2 hellcannons - oh yeah baby, these guys clear tables on their own. Unfortunately in my case that means killing my own army single-handed as well. Include them anyway, because they're FUN!

PurpleSun
05-08-2010, 14:14
Quinn, can you point to any source that confirms that 'Ard Boyz is going to be run with 8th Ed. rules? My local shop (Pittsburgh) insists that they are running 'Ard Boyz using 7th Ed. Everywhere on Warseer people are assuming 8th. Is there anywhere on GW's site confirming one way or another?

theSkullduggery1
05-08-2010, 14:45
I think you should have a unit champ in your warriors of khorne so that he can challenge a unit champ and your BSB can take out more models.

Otherwise I'm pretty much in agreement with what has been said.

Eta
05-08-2010, 17:24
17 Warr of Khorne, Mus/SB, Halb/Sh
Std of Discipline 352pts
Is there a particular reason for the Standard of Discipline? Again, not sure if its the optimal choice, a unit I use in the same role would be Warriors with MoT and Banner of Rage. I find its a touch more survivable and perma-frenzy is handy (also confers to the BSB so he doesn't need to be khorne)



Khorne guys - not sure. I like +1Ld, but this might be better on the anvil unit, if you could bring yourself to drop the blasted standard on them. Banner of Rage is unequivocally better than Mark of Khorne; I'd do like DG and drop the Ld banner and Mark for B/Rage, perhaps with Mark of Tzeentch or not.


You two guys are missing that he is putting his stupid BSB in the unit. Ld9 with rerolls is fairly certain not to fail, Ld8 with rerolls still fails about once per game and you do not want that.

Good list! I would, however, try to spend less on characters. But that is personal preference.

Greetings
Eta

bubbathebrute
05-08-2010, 19:05
I personally like the third eye option on the lvl 4. I find the benefits of MoT too good to pass up but dont love the spell list. The third eye allows you access to more spells that you normally dont have access too. Also, I think a power familiar is better than blood of tzeetch. One power dice extra should give you a higher casting value then rerolling one die a turn(especially a die that is greater than a one). Plus its 5 points cheaper.

I use to always take infernal puppet in 7th but with easy access to a 3+ ward save for my lvl 4, I dont know if it is mandatory for me any more. Your lvl 4 is flying around by himself so the template on a miscast will only touch him. Offensively, every result sucks for your opponent, I dont know if I care to control the result enough.

Everything else is pretty solid I think. Personally, i would maybe drop the lvl 2 and kit out my bsb to be a little more defensive.

Quinn
05-08-2010, 20:32
Thanks for the replies..very appreciated. I'll see if I can answer why I did certain things:

1. Character Points: I agree that there are too many points in here, but my experience lately has been that Chaos Characters are pretty hard to kill. So some of this is VP denial in addition to the abilities of the various characters. I'll think about dropping the Lvl2 after I see what happens in a couple games, but if I do that then I'll definitely keep 3rd Eye on the Lvl 4.
I think all armies have to have a BSB now and Throgg is just too good for the points, so the only option is the Lvl2, in my opinion.

2. BSB Set-up: This is the guy I'm least convinced is viable, so he's not locked in stone. On a side note, the Khorne unit has no Champion, because I want this Character in a challenge, I think he's more survivable that way than dealing with a bunch of attacks from RnF. The Std of Discipline is in this unit to provide a Re-rollable Leadership of 9, to offset the Stupidity (as was mentioned in the posts).

3. Khorne Knights: The Flaming Banner is absolutely necessary in my opinion for the preliminary round I'll be in. I know that there are at least 3 Skaven and a couple DE players, not to mention Daemons (potentially Nurgle Stuff), other WoC players (Trolls) and at least 2 O&G players (Trolls again). Plus we have 1 WE player and 1 TK player where it's nice to have flaming attacks available. This is the only unit that is fast enough and hits hard enough to deal with a lot of these units, so the banner stays.

4. Dogs: Let's face it, they're cheap and pretty fast units. If nothing else they can still be used to redirect to some extent and to charge fleeing units (and maybe catch them). I don't like the Mtd. Marauders much anymore, but if I drop a character I may change out these guys for something else. They also do provide a potential -2 to hit Cover save against shooting.

Once again, thanks for the input on the list. First game is tonight and I'll see how it does and post it.

*As far as Ardboyz being 8th Edition Rules, the General Rule at GW has always been that if a BRB or AB/Codex is out for 30 days..then that is the official book for a tournament. We haven't heard anything different and to play an Ardboyz nearly 2 months after the release of a BRB with the Previous rules would be a bit ludicrous.

Dreadgrass
05-08-2010, 23:48
Would dropping the mage and adjusting the BSB to carry the book of secrets give you a decent middle ground?