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View Full Version : High Elf Lothern Sea Guard Vs. Spearmen



DragonPrince93
05-08-2010, 02:28
So my big question starting out high elves in 8th edition is the idea of using spearmen or lothern sea guard. My views are as followed:

Spearmen are 4 points cheaper (i would always use shields)

Lothern Sea Guard can shoot ten shots most of the time at a usual -2 or -1 against most armies averging 5 hits two wounds and only 1 unsaved wounds.

Is it actually worth the four points a model? I run my spearmen in units of 30 and therefore I gain a bolt thrower plus a banner and champion in the unit by using spearmen in place of sea guard. I have recently decided that archers are not worth it and am now relying only on bot throwers for the sooting phase.

Please comment with opinions!

Tarian
05-08-2010, 02:34
I started using LSG again, and am quite impressed with them in 8th. They are fairly compact, but with volley fire, can pump out a decent number of shots, and when they S&S, then hit with rerollable spears, even S3 is looking intimidating when it's that many shots. They're a jack of all trades, master of none, but they're actually a solid anvil, able to fend off other non-elite units.

They are a bit high on points though, but they are pretty elite for basic troopers.

wamphyri101
05-08-2010, 08:06
LSG are good but dont try and take them in mass size units as they will just get shot to hell. maybe 2 small units to, as tarian says, act as hack of all trades to support your other forces

cptcosmic
05-08-2010, 08:12
you cannot shoot properly when you move, you cannot march when you shoot, shorter range then archers, even more expensive and when you fight close combat with them, you loose some of your shooting phase.

in my opinion, not really worth it. they might be good for defending something, but for general purpose a combination of archers + spearelves is much better in my opinion.

CmdrLaw
05-08-2010, 08:28
Quite simple choice basically it depends if you want to shoot or not.

Don't look at LSG as a replacement for Spearmen look at them as a replacement for Archers.

Then they are only 2 points dearer, the range difference is absorbed by the fact they can be further forward and can quickly reform into deeper ranks to absorb a charge and can actually put out alot of punishment.

So yeah if you focusing on CC then take spears, if you want shooting take LSG, if you want both mix LSG and spears.

Infiltraitor
05-08-2010, 13:39
I like the idea of LSGs but the fact that you get the same combat ability out of a unit of Spearmen and at best their always going to be hitting with strength 3 bows, on 4's doesn't justify the cost. I'm at the point where I would like to start playing 4k games, but core choices at the point size start to lose alot of their luster. Archers can't reliable hold a flank or a center and the foot print of the blocks of units tends to cause them to get in each others way. I'm thinking the Spearmen are probably the better choice as the point sizes get past 2.5 - 3k.

Von Wibble
05-08-2010, 15:51
Quite simple choice basically it depends if you want to shoot or not.

Don't look at LSG as a replacement for Spearmen look at them as a replacement for Archers.

Then they are only 2 points dearer, the range difference is absorbed by the fact they can be further forward and can quickly reform into deeper ranks to absorb a charge and can actually put out alot of punishment.

So yeah if you focusing on CC then take spears, if you want shooting take LSG, if you want both mix LSG and spears.

This.

It really depends if you are of an aggressive or defensive mindset.

An aggressive player is going to advance on the enemy, who may well hang back a bit more. This makes range a factor, giving archers the edge (therefore take a unit of archers and a unit of spearmen instead of LSG). Also if the enemy is als aggressive a lot of his key nits will be ni comabt quickly, making your shooting of less worth.

A defensive player on the other hand has all the time in the world and can have the lsg form up in 3 ranks of 8, losing only 4 shots, before a quick reform allows them to recieve a charge later, with a better stand and shoot. Here the lsg are better.

My own army at 2500 points has 1 units of spears, 1 of archers and 1 of lothern sea guard. I will not be changing this until a few games worth of experimentation.

Col. Tartleton
05-08-2010, 19:15
Sea Guard are the best core choice. However you can't try to horde them. You want several medium sized units (6x4 maximizes shoot and attacks) so that you can still maneuver them or use them to cover each other. You can shoot in 8x3 then reform into a 6x4 as was said above. Or you could even deploy as 12x2 shoot then collapse into a block of 6x4 thanks to the musician. I feel like its smarter to put LSG in the list then archers or spearmen because a block of spears while cheaper can't reach out and touch something and a unit of archers is vulnerable to being attacked. LSG are only more points, and with a minimum core of 25% you need to put some points in it. You need at least 625 points in core. Two blocks of 24 with full command does that. Barebone archers get you some more bodies and firepower but less use overall.

marakaelis
05-08-2010, 20:13
I dont like the Lothern Sea Guard. They dont do enough damage with the bows and are too expensive for bringing solid numbers. I've been disappointed in shooting too much, anyways. Bows dont cut it for me. If the Longbows were -1 save I might have gone for Archers, but now its just Spearmen ad infinitum. I rather butcher the enemy head to head anyways :D . Also, this way I can keep on moving with the whole army. No static elements will be on my list.


I'll be running 2 x 35 Spearmen and 1 x 38 Spearmen (first amongst equals), with a heavily protected Army Standard Bearer as my core and anvil, supported by 24 Phoenix Guard and 3 x 6 Dragon Princes (+ 4 Great Eagles, Teclis (Life), and a Mage (Shadow: to be able to switch Teclis out of trouble and add some extra magical action), in 3000 points. Highly agressive, pretty hard to take out and hopefully fun.