PDA

View Full Version : The Fall - A series of novels?



TheMartyr451
06-08-2010, 06:42
How would you feel about a series of novels based on the Fall? What authors from the Black Library would you want to write the novels? I'd be interested to hear everyone's input.

It was a thought I had the other day, how maybe if done right and written well by good authors it could make for a pretty epic series. It would be much like the Horus Heresy novels where it tells the tale of the different planets of Eldar and how each of the Craftworlds started. Another interesting thing they could shed light on is some more history on the Dark Eldar. Then again, not much is known except for the basics, and if I recall correctly the only named character from the time is Eldrad Ulthran. That also would leave a lot of freedom for the authors which could be interesting.

Also, C.S. Goto would not be allowed to write any of the novels. Nothing personal or anything...but yeah. I think everyone knows what I'm trying to say here. :p

Radium
06-08-2010, 06:47
I would love a series of novels based on the fall, although I don't think it would be near the scope of HH series. Maybe a trilogy or something. But it could really expand the 'dying race' thing the Eldar have going on.


and if I recall correctly the only named character from the time is Eldrad Ulthran. That also would leave a lot of freedom for the authors which could be interesting.


Nope, we also have the Phoenix Lords and Asdrubael Vect.

Son of Sanguinius
06-08-2010, 07:02
I would not like to see the novels done. I am as fascinated as the rest of us about the Eldar and the Fall, but seeing how they have missed or retarded so many fantastic moral motivations for the Horus Heresy, I can't imagine that they would explain the Fall in a fashion that is intellectually or emotionally stimulating.

ryng_sting
06-08-2010, 08:04
It'd be great. So, for that matter, would the Badab War and the Reign of Blood. But to do any one of these justice, BL would need a clearer schedule - which, it'd be fair to assume, isn't going to happen until the HH series finishes.

Lord Damocles
06-08-2010, 08:52
No! No! and No! again!

It's bad enough that the Horus Heresy series has attempted to detail a semi-mythical series of events from 10,000 years ago. The last thing the Eldar need is the same treatment.


If an Eldar series is really wanted, why not something based on the Scourging of Lammas or similar?

Hellebore
06-08-2010, 08:55
I think that, as cool as it would be (imo) it would be even harder to do than the Horus Heresy.

At least in the heresy it's a pretty clear cut fight with tragic 'brother vs brother' elements in it.

The Fall would end on a downer ending (more so than the emperor being incarcerated in the golden throne - at least most of humanity still existed) and the lead up to that was full of really obscene things and not just sexually orientated.

GW have a hard enough time writing about relationships in their novels, I don't think they'd want to explore the deepest recesses of the eldar psyche and the levels of debauchery and excess they could produce.

Incest powertool orgies, self mutilation, consuming eldar kidneys until you explode from the pleasure and so on. Very dark stuff.

Basically it would be a bit like the Marqis de Sade's "120 Days of Sodom" cranked up to 40k's required eleven and then doused in an extra helping of SICK. They'd have to focus on characters and people that don't encounter this, which would make the whole problem of the fall a minor event.

If the story was more about the craftworld trade ships moving around and trying to escape the crazies from their people, it wouldn't be about the fall per se, but rather the people on the periphery caught up in it.

I would shudder to think of the horrible things a post scarcity society running on unlimited energy like the eldar could do to themselves out of boredom. I don't think I'd want to read about it in a book.

EDIT: Actually it would be beyond de Sade. It would be like the internet gave birth to 4chan in space and then imploded from the horror.

Hellebore

ForgottenLore
06-08-2010, 09:09
I'm with Hellbore. I would love to see more information about the period but immediately pre-fall Eldar society would make the movie Caligula look like a Disney cartoon.

I disagree though that the ending couldn't be upbeat. You could end with the rise of the craftworlds and the restructuring of Eldar society as a somewhat hopeful thing.

Kinda like you can have a movie about a nuclear war and end with the protagonists finding a place of relative safety. Society has come crashing down, but the end is still upbeat.

Iracundus
06-08-2010, 09:14
I think that, as cool as it would be (imo) it would be even harder to do than the Horus Heresy.

Tolkien did it in the Fall of Numenor which has parallels. Tolkien focused on the tales of the few uncorrupted and faithful. A series around the Fall could focus on those trying to construct, stock, and load the Craftworlds in the anarchy preceding the Fall, and on trying to save their loved ones from the mobs. The actual acts of corruption don't have to be explicitly mentioned for the reader to get a sense of ancient power and grandeur brought low by hubris and decadence. Tolkien didn't need to do so to get the point across and neither would GW.

Other points of view might be the future Phoenix Lords and snippets of their personal tales.

Tolkien's Fall of Numenor ended tragically but still had some glimmers of hope as a few fragments of Numenor's culture, history, and might escaped and lingered on. Similarly, a tale of the Fall ending in the successful departure of Craftworlds with the survivors looking back at the receding homeworlds and heartland of the former Empire could end with at least the satisfaction that some portion of the Eldar race and culture had been saved.

Hellebore
06-08-2010, 09:30
Well certainly if Tolkein wrote it I think it would be fine. :p

Although I was never a massive fan of his writing style...

Hellebore

Poseidal
06-08-2010, 09:40
I would shy away as it can destroy the mystique. Horus Heresy was bad enough, this is even harder to do.

I think maybe short snippets or vignettes like the brief perspectives from the Phoenix Lords from their past.

I've planned a Mary-Sue fanfiction that probably won't see the light of day set in that time period (among others) too. :p

Green-is-best
06-08-2010, 11:14
EDIT: Actually it would be beyond de Sade. It would be like the internet gave birth to 4chan in space and then imploded from the horror.

/b/'s got nothing on Sade.

malika
06-08-2010, 13:43
But the Fall has no Space Marines in it...

abasio
06-08-2010, 13:54
Why would it need an upbeat ending?

malika
06-08-2010, 13:58
Maybe upbeat in the sense that space is now open for human conquest?

abasio
06-08-2010, 14:01
The ending could be a farseer seing the rise of the imperium

ForgottenLore
06-08-2010, 14:08
The ending could be a farseer seing the rise of the imperium

Well, that's certainly not upbeat :p

Iracundus
06-08-2010, 14:12
Endings could be multitudinous and varied depending on Craftworld. An Eldar on Biel-tan may vow to reclaim all that was lost and reforge a new empire. One on Ulthwe may vow to stand watch and guard over the dangers of the new Eye of Terror. Alaitoc may throw itself into seclusion or focus on reining in their formerly free natures, perhaps taking the first steps towards the formation of the Path system. An Exodite may look in the sky and shrug and return to tending his herd.

abasio
06-08-2010, 14:31
Well, that's certainly not upbeat :p

No it's not ;)

Artein
06-08-2010, 15:26
Seeing what Gav Thorpe did with fantasy elves in Time of Legends I'd say "That's the guy you're looking for!".

"Path of the Warrior" is nice, right?

Lars Porsenna
06-08-2010, 16:49
Path of the Warrior was a pretty decent read. If anyone can do a "Fall" type series, Gav would be at the top of my list...

Damon.

Gorbad Ironclaw
06-08-2010, 18:27
No, I really wouldn't want to see such a series. As Hellebore said it would basically be a collection of the worst depravities you can imagine as those would be the acts that created Slaanesh and so would be at the core of anything dealing with the Fall. Aside from that, why would we need specific details in novel form about it? It's a mythical event designed to set the stage for the current state of the Eldars. Specific details are unimportant and I can't really see it going anywhere good.
At best I could maybe see something like that done as an internal morality tale, exploring the state of mind that would either lead to such things or lead to the total rejection of your society as a whole. But I don't think BL is the proper setting for such a novel.

Son of Sanguinius
06-08-2010, 18:30
I didn't even think of that. If it were done justice, it would end up in the adult section.

malika
06-08-2010, 21:54
Would you have to describe the decadence in full detail to describe the fall? Maybe the author could go into more detail on the resistance that came against it, you know the Exodites first and then the Craftworlders.

Only problem is that the novels would lack the spectacular giant wars and would be more about the decadents killing those who resist them (assassinations, executions) and others trying to escape.

However, stories which deal with the Eldar right at the moment of the Fall would be more interesting, some escape stories of Craftworlds, the Dark Eldar escaping into the Web Way, the Eldar dying en masse. So instead of dealing with novels dealing with the pre-Fall madness they would look into the Fall itself.

Son of Sanguinius
06-08-2010, 22:52
Would you have to describe the decadence in full detail to describe the fall? Maybe the author could go into more detail on the resistance that came against it, you know the Exodites first and then the Craftworlders.

Not in full, I guess, but you'd really have to go far to make the situation realistic. The Eldar, as far as I understand it, have magnified psyches in comparison to humanity. When they go decadent or depraved, they really go over the edge to a horrifying level. And we're talking about the pursuit of the most extreme sensations and stimulations that their bodies can tolerate, or put another way, a level of abuse of their senses and intellect that, when reflected, creates a god of extreme gratification. Putting in the occasional torture scene or hinting at sex, which are the normal (and perfectly acceptable) methods for BL is completely insufficient to describe this. I would dare to say that the Fall is the psychologically darkest point in all of the Warhammer 40,000 timeline, a universe that prides itself on grimdark. They'd never get a fully encompassing work past censors and into the market, and to my mind, you'd have to honestly explore the Eldar psyche to understand the Fall and write something meaningful and engaging concerning it. An honest exploration means the noblest of heights and the most disgusting depths.

Wyrmwood
06-08-2010, 23:51
Personally, I don't think that any of the current Black Library authors could really handle the tasteless excess in a tasteful, skilled way. Besides, not only would it destroy the mystique it would also be too 'graphic' for Games Workshop's current demographic... A shame, but alas.

That said, this is a thread about what we'd like to see if a series were made, so... Gav Thorpe and Aaron Dembski-Bowden handling the bulk, with Matthew Farrer also getting the chance to shine on particular character driven moments; I would like to see an independent sort of, focus on Asdrubael Vect and the events linked to and surrounding him; Commorragh and the Dark Eldar, Eldrad Ulthran or perhaps an Ulthran-esque cabal (not *the* Cabal), their warnings and the escaping Craftworlds as well as the Phoenix Lords. Personally, I think these are the big 'players/contenders' and between them, would cover all aspects of the Fall; the excess, bloodshed, tragedy etc etc - mentions of Eldar history and technology would be nice - like the Webway, the rise and expansion of the Eldar Empire and the Old Ones would likewise be sweet.

The Yellow Sign
07-08-2010, 00:17
It would have to turn into smut the quality of Anne Rice to properly represent the disgusting deviance of the Eldar.

I think the Fall is a time best forgotten.