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Tau-Lover
06-08-2010, 12:04
Before the new book came out, some rumours said that unless a rank got completly destroyed, all of the models could fight back. (If I got 5 models in the front rank and the enemy only killed 4, all 5 would be able to strike back)

I can't find it in the book, so is this true or false?

Thanks

narrativium
06-08-2010, 12:09
False. Dead models don't strike back. Look up the rules for 'Step Up'.

Memnos
06-08-2010, 12:11
False. Dead models don't strike back. Look up the rules for 'Step Up'.

It's not about 'striking back.

If you have 4, 368 people in a single horde unit numbering 10*437 and the opponent kills 100, 1000 or 2000 models, you still have 20 models fighting because they step up.

If, by some miracle, he killed 4360 in the initial charge, you would get 8 striking back.

Because 8 models is all that's left.

Tau-Lover
06-08-2010, 12:55
It's not about 'striking back.

If you have 4, 368 people in a single horde unit numbering 10*437 and the opponent kills 100, 1000 or 2000 models, you still have 20 models fighting because they step up.

If, by some miracle, he killed 4360 in the initial charge, you would get 8 striking back.

Because 8 models is all that's left.

Does this mean that as long there are still models in the unit, the front rank and supporting ranks are still able to strike back?

Memnos
06-08-2010, 13:09
Does this mean that as long there are still models in the unit, the front rank and supporting ranks are still able to strike back?

Yep. As long as there are models left, he gets to fight back. That's almost the defining characteristic of this edition.

Jetty Smurf
06-08-2010, 19:22
The only way to reduce incoming attacks from the other unit is to reduce the model count below what could have attacked back before the combat started.

I.e. The unit had 20 models ranked 5 across 4 deep. If this unit received anywhere from 0-10 casualties, it would still attack with the entire 2 front ranks.

If, on the other hand, the unit received 15 casualties, then it would only get the strike back with the remaining 5 models.

SSgt Dave
12-08-2010, 06:36
I have looked around in the threads and while there are quite a few on the "Step Up" rule there is still one thing which eludes me.

A 5x5 unit of "Whatever" charges a 10x2 unit of "Whatever". Assuming all models involved in the combat have 1 attack, and the charging unit gets to strike first. Charging unit gets 10 attacks (5 front rank and 5 supporting) and does 10 wounds. This would wipe out the front 7 models in base-to-base contact and 3 of his supporting models. Since there is no third rank to step up, would the defending unit now only receive 4 return attacks or would models in the first and second rank from the other end of the formation shift over to provide a full two ranks of 14 attacks?

Yrrdead
12-08-2010, 06:42
I have looked around in the threads and while there are quite a few on the "Step Up" rule there is still one thing which eludes me.

A 5x5 unit of "Whatever" charges a 10x2 unit of "Whatever". Assuming all models involved in the combat have 1 attack, and the charging unit gets to strike first. Charging unit gets 10 attacks (5 front rank and 5 supporting) and does 10 wounds. This would wipe out the front 7 models in base-to-base contact and 3 of his supporting models. Since there is no third rank to step up, would the defending unit now only receive 4 return attacks or would models in the first and second rank from the other end of the formation shift over to provide a full two ranks of 14 attacks?


First you need to go to pg 45 of the BRB Removing Casualties. Which tells us to remove casualties from the rear rank.

So there would be neither 4 return attacks nor 14 but instead....7.

SSgt Dave
12-08-2010, 06:59
Thank you Yrdead.

Follow on question: So it does not matter what end you take the casualties from in the rear most rank first because for all practical purposes the unit will continue to collapse down always maintaining the same number of models in contact if possible. Is this interpretation correct?

Yrrdead
12-08-2010, 07:11
Follow on question: So it does not matter what end you take the casualties from in the rear most rank first because for all practical purposes the unit will continue to collapse down always maintaining the same number of models in contact if possible. Is this interpretation correct?

I believe it is.