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apple_wood
06-08-2010, 16:02
Why would anyone admire the life of a Space Marine?

Sure your very tough and good at fighting, but there's more to life than that! Don't they get jealous when they see the Guardsmen going off duty, then going and getting liquored up and trying to cop off with the local talent?

Other than war, you have no life, as well as being some sort of genetic freak. Surely they must look at their schlong and think: 'I wish I got to use this!'

The complete lack of down time as well. They can't just finish duty, go up the block, change into some civvies and go down the pub or the cinema.

Other than their indoctrination, why would they stay loyal?

babyberg31
06-08-2010, 16:07
because there is two solution to a space marine asking those questions to himself:

1- get kill by the inquisition\squad leader\whatever leader
or
2- turn to chaos

This is why so much marine are chaos one...

Luisjoey
06-08-2010, 16:13
Space marine are convinced that they are HUMAN PARAGON they are the best and have a strong religion in the emperor and humankind (even sometimes over common humans)

So common pleasures are nothing to them, their passion is war a battle, die with honour, etc.

some of them become rogue trader if they are willing to be by their side, but very few... they rather die in duty.

Guardsman have little lifespam and are nothing compared to space marines, but cheap rabble.

Wolf Lord Balrog
06-08-2010, 23:24
The Space Marines are psycho-conditioned (brainwashed) to be devoted to their roles as warriors and nothing else. Some Chapters have 'acceptable' diversions though. Space Wolves have their feasting, carousing, competitions of strength and skill. Many Blood Angels are artists, as well as artisans of wargear. The Ultramarines sometimes act as community leaders in the Ultramar area, and as training officers for the Ultramar PDFs.

But Space Marines just don't need recreation like normal humans do. That's part of what makes them super-men. If a Space Marine can endure full-tilt combat for a month or more without rest, just imagine how much 'downtime' he can get through before he even starts to think about being bored.

gwarsh41
07-08-2010, 00:03
Read up on some of the other chapters. Space wolves for example have great feasts, fighting tournaments, and apparently occasionally go hunting on fenris. the HH books have the marines being pretty normal when not fighting.

The Yellow Sign
07-08-2010, 00:20
Read up on some of the other chapters. Space wolves for example have great feasts, fighting tournaments, and apparently occasionally go hunting on fenris. the HH books have the marines being pretty normal when not fighting.

That's just it. While Marines live for war and are designed to fight they do indeed do other activities within' their Chapter.

It isn't just being shipped from one battle to the next, not all the time anyways.

insectum7
07-08-2010, 01:05
They tend to have their own culture which is completely separate from the rest of humanity, they decide to give up other options for the honor of their "work".

Why would anyone want to be a nun? Or a monk? Or an astronaut? If you really believe in something you make sacrifices for it. They give up the potential for a normal life to be a space-faring total badass.

Ironmonger
07-08-2010, 01:12
Look up 'medieval religious orders.' Watch 'Die Grosse Stille.' We in this time and western-cum-globalized capitalist society... we have it sooooooo flippin' easy. Usually if you don't want to fight, not drafted, or aren't indoctrinated by some religious fanaticism you don't have to fight. This is quite out of the ordinary with the vast majority of human social life on good ol' ball-o-mud we call home.

sigur
07-08-2010, 01:33
... the HH books have the marines being pretty normal when not fighting.

Yes, because it's BL books. They also portray Commissars as munching watermelons with the troops. I don't regard them as more than fan fiction with a price tag. Some are entertaining but none of them should be taken too seriously in regards to fluff sources.

Of course Space Marines tend to do other stuff than fighting and praying. Blood Angels are said to be great artisans and Space Wolves like drinking beer and all that. Still, in these regards these chapters are, as in other regards as well, the exception from the norm.

Now, to return to the topic at hand: All races in 40k are clearly convinced of their own superiority, Space Marines are being sold as the epidome of human superiority and all fascist systems love their warrior elites because fascist systems always build up on stuff like "superior fighting spirit", "superior morale" and so on and only secondarily on actual fighting power or if anything really makes sense in battle. It's all about that twisted, quasi-romantic idea of morale being the make or break of everything. That's why these warrior elites, as most honor guards and similar formations, are propaganda tools first, terror weapons second and an actual fighting force third. For the masses, they are something to aspire to (of course, in the imperium, nobody can actually aspire to being a space marine because for most of the population they are mythical creatures who show up every few hundred years and take the best of their generation away).

Sure, Space Marines are cool, I don't think that there's any question about that. And as others pointed out, Space Marines have a clear purpose and not many insecurities to fear in life so that sounds pretty good actually if you had a crappy day. But if we're honest, it's really not something anyone of us really wants to achieve.


P.S.: I really think that this should be in 40k Background.

Gutted
07-08-2010, 01:35
Other than their indoctrination, why would they stay loyal?

They are immersed in a culture that makes RL religious fanaticsm seem quaint and biologicialy they just don't have the same drives or needs as a regular human.

onidemon
07-08-2010, 02:36
I don't think we can overlook the indoctrination as a small thing... your average marine is totally brainwashed in the ways of his chapter, both religiously and artificially through hypnosis.

But, outside of that I think its easiest to think of marines like modern priests. They're trusted to behave and act a certain way in the service of a higher power, and for the most part they do.

No doubt there are some who are tempted by the vices of a mundane life, and resisting that temptation is an important part of the character of the modern priest or space marine. A life of denial is more honorable and disciplined, than a life entirely ignorant of those temptations.

Of course, some marines don't have the strength to turn aside the desire for wealth or individual glory or even love, but they lack the ability to act on their desires. If they openly went against the chapter, they would certainly be killed. And that gives chaos the opening it needs, to slither in and offer the marine all he wants and more, at the low cost of his immortal soul...

The Yellow Sign
07-08-2010, 03:40
but none of them should be taken too seriously in regards to fluff sources.

I had to comment on this.

While in your opinion they aren't very meaningful.. they are indeed considered canon; regardless of what you think of them. It's really no different than the people who refuse to acknowledge a codices fluff.

Gutted
07-08-2010, 07:19
I had to comment on this.

While in your opinion they aren't very meaningful.. they are indeed considered canon; regardless of what you think of them. It's really no different than the people who refuse to acknowledge a codices fluff.

I thought they were considered propagander rather than cannon?

sigur
07-08-2010, 08:44
..... they are indeed considered canon; ...It's really no different than the people who refuse to acknowledge a codices fluff.

The question is by whom they are considered "canon". By the way, did GW ever release anything that said so?

And I do dismiss parts of background released in codices now and then because in my experience, this is the best way to avoid too great nerve damage and jumping out of windows when it comes to 40k background.

mob16151
09-08-2010, 03:19
Humans all desire to belong to some sort of group. Especially pubescents. Now add to this mix, the imperiums propaganda machine, psycho conditioning, and a population that is generally less educated.( I don't know that less educated is how I want to phrase that. Possibly more superstitious is better.) And thats why the Emperor's Angels of Death are content with there lot in life. And when there not they just go Maelstrom, Ahoy.

Easy E
09-08-2010, 14:22
Its not like life on most planet's in the Imperium is all that great. Nothing to get jealous about in most cases.

In the grim darkness of the far future there is only... DRUDGERY!

jlmb_123
09-08-2010, 14:34
Yeah, the Imperium is nothing like the modern world - it's like a mix of Chernobyl, Dark Ages Europe and modern-day Sudan. The chances of a planet having a consumer society, or even one with any level of choice for its inhabitants, is tiny. I've find the description at the beginning of the Cities of Death book, of Imperial cities and the lives of their inhabitants, a convincing one.

As to the reliability of BL books as canon, it was stated years ago that they're not in the same way as Codices are, but it seems that over the last few years the games, novels and peripheral products (FFG, DoW) seem to be more streamlined than they were a decade ago.

Iuris
09-08-2010, 15:52
Actually, the statement read more like "We're not going to bother with canon, so what's canon? Who knows." Fans think "canon". GW thinks "products".

P.S. Oh bother, almost forgot to address the OP. Well, once you look at the marine life, which is training and prayer forever, no entertainment, no other goals in life, the loss of offspring (due to lifestyle) etc. it's far from attractive. Of course, many may need some time to realize this.

bignbadbum
09-08-2010, 16:10
@Iuris it isn't all "Training and Prayer forever" like some others have stated, it really depends on the chapter. Space Wolves love their entertainment: drinking, competition, hunting etc. Blood Angels are artsy, Salamanders are great Artificers and probably spend much time painting or crafting respectively. Sure training and daily prayer would be a big part, but that is a bad generalization of Space Marines to claim it is all the do. Space Marines could easily have goals such as achieving the ranks of the Wolf Guard(Space Wolves) the Sanguinary Guard(Blood Angels) etc. Sure it is mostly wanting to reach the upper levels of the chapter, but it is still a goal nonetheless and a desire to be the best of the best. I'll give you the no sex-life and no chance for offspring, but the age of which aspirants are usually taken depending on the world(Early-late teens) I don't think most of them would care for either of those.

Karl MkVI
09-08-2010, 17:04
Read up on some of the other chapters. Space wolves for example have great feasts, fighting tournaments, and apparently occasionally go hunting on fenris. the HH books have the marines being pretty normal when not fighting.

true, but Great Crusade-era marines are very different. during the GC, there was an objective to conquer the galaxy etc. now it's just; fight forever, die with honour, give your life forthe Imperium. there is much less in terms of 'downtime' for a space marine in 40k as opposed to 30k.

Col. Tartleton
09-08-2010, 18:26
Think of it this way? Why do men become monks? Because they love God. That's enough isn't it? Life's difficult whatever you make of it. Unpleasant tasks are as unpleasant as you make them. Hard work is its own reward to some people. Other get sick at the thought. Those aren't going to be picked as marines.

geeksquared
09-08-2010, 18:38
Remember that life in the imperium is very compartmentalized. Unless you're very rich you'll do one very specific job your entire life with little or no promotion prospects and its a good bet that your father and grandfather did the same thing before you. An imperial guardsman's life is only war as well its just that Space Marines are better at war than guardsmen. Asking why would you want to be a space marine is like asking why would you want to be a guardsman, a cook, a cleaner, a factory worker. Whatever you are in the imperium that is all you'll ever be its just that space marines are engineered to be extra good at what they do.

GrinningManiac
09-08-2010, 22:03
Priests have the same problem IRL

Only difference is, the Space Marine gets the additional perk of being a quasi-immortal demi-god who gets to blow off steam after half-a-year of praying, fasting and wandering around churchyards thoughtfully and slowly...by blowing the head off a 10-foot green ape-beast with a gun that shoots explosions

Askari
09-08-2010, 22:50
Considering the alternative in the 40k universe.

Your average human doesn't really have a pleasant life at all, living on a deathworld is similar to being a Space Marine. Hives are dirty, downtrodden scum pits which no-one cares about except the very upper layers. Work in the Adeptus Terra spending years and years copying documents that no-one wants, or sending Lasguns to a planet you've never heard of and not knowing why you're sending them there, or even if the planet still exists.
There are few "nice" planets, and for those lucky people on them, being a Space Marine may not be too great a prospect. For the others, it's a way to escape the pathetic life they live each day.