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cockney_nightmare
06-08-2010, 18:41
hey folks, just dropping in to say Ive seen WIP on a WOTR starter box to replace mines of moria. The contents are going to be made up of men of Minas Tirith and Orcs. No confirmation on what is in the box HOWEVER in have seen new Wargs that are bigger then the current ones.

Take with a pinch of salt if you must

Jobu
06-08-2010, 18:47
Wargs or dare I say werewolves? Since it makes no sense to release new wargs after releasing new repackaged wargs.

cockney_nightmare
06-08-2010, 18:53
as cool as that would be they were definitely wargs

ForgottenLore
06-08-2010, 22:18
No, actually, it does make some sense.

Or at least it can, if they were trying to get rid of existing stock before it got replaced.

Don't see any reason for them to have done new wargs though.

sleazyp
06-08-2010, 22:30
Don't see any reason for them to have done new wargs though.


To make them look like wargs (wolves) not demented hyenas... *rabble rabble rabble*

ForgottenLore
06-08-2010, 22:33
I have been roused!:D

I do actually like the look of the Wargs from the movies. I thought it was nice to see something suggesting they were a different species and not just the standard fall back of really big wolves.

Jobu
07-08-2010, 01:00
as cool as that would be they were definitely wargs

Well, then it can not be mordor, mordor does not have wild wargs in wotr. Only angmar and misty mountains.

lorelorn
07-08-2010, 01:03
Actually having an allied contingent for each army in the box would be a nice intro to WotR army building.

Though probably the wargs will have riders in the release.

Adyger
07-08-2010, 02:44
Either way, this sounds perfect for me. Those are the two forces I wanted to expand for WotR. I wonder how much different it will be from the number of models included in the Return of the King boxed set for the SBG way back when...that was the first gamesworkshop product I purchased (other than the 5 random Eldar blisters I had waay back in the early 90's)!

Oh, and since it is for WotR, I assume it will include movement trays. I wonder if they'll just be the standard ones, or if they'll be special ones.

ForgottenLore
07-08-2010, 06:00
Well, then it can not be mordor, mordor does not have wild wargs in wotr. Only angmar and misty mountains.

Angmar doesn't have a Warg entry, either mounted or riderless.

Darthvegeta800
07-08-2010, 07:55
That's rather nice news eventhough I'm not a player of Gondor or Mordor, those are pretty much the best picks for a starterbox.
I might pick this up to have a Mordor contingent allied to my Easterlings or to start of an opposing Gondor force.

The Marshel
07-08-2010, 08:39
healthy pinch of salt taken, but i do hope ur right. it'd be a great sign for the future of lotr in general at GW. Plus if you are right you could end up the harry or scryer of lotr (assuming ur sources are consistent and not a one of) fingers crossed mate.


Don't see any reason for them to have done new wargs though.

Differentiate wild wargs from ridden wargs i reckon. perhaps in the future they want to do two separate kits rather then one kit and the me kit with no riders. If done right, they could potentially charge the same for both kits which would certainly please some people at gw business wise.

I'd hope for some metals to become plasticafied for this. its either minas tirith or osgiliath. If minas tirith, maybe plastic citadel guard and plastic...er...catapult for mordor? if osgiliath, then plastic osgiliath vets (though, it' seem a bit of a waste to me given u can convert ur own from womt easily enough) and plastic mordor uruk hai (i recall a friend saying they were once used to invade osgiliath, also seems a bit of a waste as uruk hai scouts could serve this role with some conversion)

shame its not last alliance

darkstar
07-08-2010, 12:00
That they never released a core box for War of the Ring more or less doomed it to low playability. Hopefully they will rectify this and make it a big release.

cockney_nightmare
07-08-2010, 19:41
you could end up the harry or scryer of lotr

:o no pressure

Kroot Lord
07-08-2010, 23:48
Sorry, really don't believe it. Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am I'll tip my hat to you when they do release Minas Tirith vs Orcs. However, this seems like you read the General LotR dicussion board where there's this exact topic, along with posters saying "Orcs vs Men of Minas Tirith in it....

cockney_nightmare
10-08-2010, 19:14
update: staff brief sent out indicating that ALL WOTR intro boards are to have Minas Tirith vs Orcs, with Mines of Moria in a case within reach. The starter bundle is changing too, to quote the brief "all new starters are then encouraged to purchase the WOTR rules and a box of infantry for now"

considering 40k and fantasy boards both have to include the starter box on the table and nothing else this a very strong indication. The fact that ive seen the models with my own eyes on a regular basis also strengthens what I know.

Jobu
10-08-2010, 19:56
Well, this is all well and good, but minas tirith vs who? Mordor, angmar or isenguard. The other question is, why bother having MoM within reach? Will not do any good considering it is an SBG starter( a crappy one, but that is for another day ) and not a WoTR starter. A lot of strange signals here.
This is not about whether I believe you, just comments on the strange set up.

scarletsquig
10-08-2010, 21:52
This sounds like a much better idea.

I was really confused when WotR was released with no big starter box to back it up, it really needs some as cool as the 8th edition fantasy box to kickstart it, with 2 armies and a custom campaign to use them in.

I think setting it in Osgiliath would be a great idea, they could add some new terrain to expand on the recent release.

cockney_nightmare
11-08-2010, 10:27
my bad, its mordor Orcs

MoM in reach because intros are still offered for both systems, although 98% of the time people arent offered a SBG introduction.

Jobu
11-08-2010, 10:50
I figured it would be mordor but one never knows if GW might want to get a little creative and introduce something like plastic arnor.....maybe another day.

Thanks for the info. Any estimates about size? The new Blood Island has 70 mini's, which for WoTR would mean some small formations, I would assume it might be a bit bigger than that. Will be nice to see the new warg riders.

Harry
11-08-2010, 15:55
... if you are right you could end up the harry or scryer of lotr ...


:o no pressure
:D
You have been bang on in the past.
Seems you have it all under control here.
I'll get back to my painting.

Did you get the release date?

cockney_nightmare
11-08-2010, 20:07
:D Im afraid I didnt catch a release date, but I cant see it being too far off

Harry
11-08-2010, 21:47
I heard something about later this year .... but I wasn't paying attention ....
More bloomin' round bases distracting attention from fantasy. :D

(EDIT: Might be completely wrong about 'ths year' ... I really wasn't paying attention!)

Joewrightgm
12-08-2010, 02:04
I heard something about later this year .... but I wasn't paying attention ....
More bloomin' round bases distracting attention from fantasy. :D

Hey, you play on square bases! Its just . . . you can use them in a delightful and fun skirmish system too.

Harry
12-08-2010, 05:06
Cough Warhammer skirmish cough border patrol cough

I was only playing. :D

I have some decent forces for Rohan, Isenguard and Moria.
I am quite looking forward to this set actually. It will kick off another couple of armies and get me into the bigger game from the skirmish game.

destroyerlord
12-08-2010, 07:50
Wow, I didn't know the pie-man played LoTR!
Seems as though this may be more than wishful thinking this time then. :D
If the box is Mordor vs Gondor then I wonder if we will get new unique sculpts of the basic troops, and perhaps exclusive plastics for some of the elites? (I'm looking at you Citadel guard/mordor orcs.) All of the starter sets since MoM have included at least one monster too (Cave Troll, fantasy troll, dreadnought, griffon), so I guess we are looking at a mordor troll for this set?
That would be very nice, and would work well for SBG players too.

Khamul
13-08-2010, 06:30
I reckon it would be neat if/when they do it they re-sculpt some base troops- Orcs, WOMTs etc- perhaps as one of those "We've been going thirty (or whatever) years and to celebrate we're re-doing our first models ever"!!!!!. I, er, HATE most of the current Orc sculpts.

Gilfred The Iron Knight
13-08-2010, 08:41
I reckon it would be neat if/when they do it they re-sculpt some base troops- Orcs, WOMTs etc- perhaps as one of those "We've been going thirty (or whatever) years and to celebrate we're re-doing our first models ever"!!!!!. I, er, HATE most of the current Orc sculpts.

Don't really see that happening. More likely they will include 1-2 units only avaliable through the starter box (or a unquie plastic variant). Cause of how the current LOTR spures compare to the other systems I don't see a rescuplt of older minis to push prices down because they are already clip together plastics. The best one can hope for (and i hope i am wrong) is something awesome in plastic like eagles, seige engines, mordor uruks, citadel guards or a new hero scuplt (even as far as plastic commands).

PANZERBUNNY
13-08-2010, 16:26
I have been roused!:D

I do actually like the look of the Wargs from the movies. I thought it was nice to see something suggesting they were a different species and not just the standard fall back of really big wolves.

Wargs are supposed to be intelligent semi undead monstrous wolves.

The movies took that away. Same way they took away Shelob and her dialogue, because people would probably find it silly. Unfortunately.

ForgottenLore
13-08-2010, 21:36
My research says that wargs are just large, intelligent and evil wolves, nothing about an undead aspect.

As I have said elsewhere, though not in this thread, what tolkien meant by werewolves was evil spirits in wolf form. they get only an idle mention in LotRs, but feature more prominently in the Silmarilian.

I don't recall Shelob having any dialog? Can you point it out? Makes sense that she could talk though, since the spiders of Mirkwood could speak.

Cal585
15-08-2010, 12:38
Reckon GW would ever release a combined starter set? As in include a SBG booklet as well? I mean, the models for WotR can already be used for SBG (unless they're going to attempt stands of models...), and we've already got the small format of the SBG rules for MoM. I mean, I would prefer if they updated it a little, added the WD profiles in, but at the least they could chuck an already in production book into the set, surely it wouldn't cost them that much?
That way, they can market it as being 2 gaming systems in 1, for the same price as 1, as well as using SBG as a part of the LotR franchise and maybe a way to hook more people into WotR.
Ultimately, I'd love to see a campaing intro book with a mix of SBG and WotR scenarios as the battles get bigger, but I realise that's probably too much effort for them.

Or would the whole idea make too much sense?

The Marshel
16-08-2010, 06:45
makes sense but i cant really see it happening tbh. At least not without a price rise on the starter kit for selling two rule sets. If sbg were to be merged into the wotr ruleset id think it more likely to me put with the big rule book, but not the starter booklet, just to sucker the new players into buying both.

PANZERBUNNY
17-08-2010, 04:23
My research says that wargs are just large, intelligent and evil wolves, nothing about an undead aspect.

As I have said elsewhere, though not in this thread, what tolkien meant by werewolves was evil spirits in wolf form. they get only an idle mention in LotRs, but feature more prominently in the Silmarilian.

I don't recall Shelob having any dialog? Can you point it out? Makes sense that she could talk though, since the spiders of Mirkwood could speak.

I'm not sure where my ROTK book is. I'm almost positive that she was taunting Frodo etc as she was stalking him in her lair....hmmmm could I be wrong....

Cal585
17-08-2010, 10:17
makes sense but i cant really see it happening tbh. At least not without a price rise on the starter kit for selling two rule sets. If sbg were to be merged into the wotr ruleset id think it more likely to me put with the big rule book, but not the starter booklet, just to sucker the new players into buying both.

Well they already have a rulebook being printed for MoM, presumably the cost of it isn't too great as to make it unmarketable?

I play SBG and not WotR, so I hope SBG doesn't get merged into WotR, but I would like to see them used together a lot more, instead of writing SBG off as a seperate system.

Jobu
17-08-2010, 18:23
Yeah, I have thought about trying to merge to two through the use of scenarios.
For example:
you can only have units in WoTR that you used in a previous SBG scenario. Ex: If you did not have rangers of gondor in the SBG part you can not field them in the WoTR part etc.

The Marshel
18-08-2010, 06:01
Well they already have a rulebook being printed for MoM, presumably the cost of it isn't too great as to make it unmarketable

Its not that its unmarketable, nor that it would cost gw a lot to do, its just that gw hasn't made a lot of decisions based more on hobbyist needs then their business needs in recent times. It does make a lot of sense to package sbg into wotr, especially if they are looking to heavily phase sbg (fingers crossed they dont mind you), but so long as they can plug off mines of moria and the big sbg rulebook, they will. They won't throw in the sbg mini rule book until the only other way they are only distributing it via online pdf.

however, if gw were to suddenly decide they want to include the sbg rules in a wotr starter kit, they'd see it as being worth a good $30 aus worth and as such will either lower the mini count (which would be pretty hard all things considered) or up the cost, making the starter set notably more expensive then the other two. that'd give wotr some issues as newer players will b more likely to go for the cheaper option, neglecting the lotr background and dual system.

Tuscuttar
21-08-2010, 18:35
Their boosting The Dwarf Holds and The Misty Mountains later this year (two months)... Why are they doing the opposite? I'm mean Angmar and Arnor would make a better set (to me) cause they need the boost as well (not to mention The Forgotten Kingdoms, Beornings? Can't wait!) I'm not doubting you,o it just surprises me. And if they don't change the Orc sculpts, I'll violently punch myself in the face.

The Marshel
26-08-2010, 09:56
i dont understand what you are trying say tuscuttar. are you
A: complaining about the dwarves and misty mountains getting new stuff despite having a sbg release not to long ago
B: complaining that the starter set will be dwarves and misty mountains, in which case i have missed something, or you have misread something
C: combined a post for both threads for some reason

Tuscuttar
26-08-2010, 18:53
What I'm saying it would be logical to release a starter in October based on the Dwarf Holds and the Misty Mountains ( and by 'doing the opposite' I meant drawing attention to other forces with the starter set, but that is because I had it in my head that they would release it in October). The thread starter said it would be Gondor and Mordor (unless I have misread something 0_o). I may have sounded like I contradicted myself but, you may have seen me complain about the boost to the DHs & MMs but that's before I bought the WotR book and seen what is possibly to come.

ForgottenLore
26-08-2010, 20:21
The is definitely a minor release for Dwarves and Goblins in October

There is a rumor that a starter set is in the works but we don't know when and that it will be Gondor vs Mordor.

It makes sense to put the 2 armies with the greatest appeal and most support in the starter set (if there really is going to be such a thing) they will want it to have as broad an appeal as possible.

decker_cky
27-08-2010, 19:10
Could easily make a case for Rohan and Isengard getting revamped in the starter set. I actually think Rohan would be more popular than Gondor if rules were equal.

Wise Guy Sam
02-09-2010, 14:44
If I was GW I'd include a couple of Giant plastic eagles. They would only be made availble in the WOTR starter set and they would be just about the right size for use in WFB as well.

The reason being, countless fantasy players not in the know about ebay will be forced to pick up the starter set to get these great sculpts and if just one in say ten read the rules and decide to pick up WOTR, GW will be laughing all the way to the bank. Worst case scenario none of the fantasy players even bother with the rules, they will still boost sales for WOTR.

Win win.

Steam_Giant
06-09-2010, 21:01
Worst case scenario none of the fantasy players even bother with the rules, they will still boost sales for WOTR.

and ebay will be flush with cheap starter set models too ! :)

Hellfury
09-09-2010, 11:38
I am impressed that GW is actually making a starter set for WotR. Long time coming.

Thanks Cockney_Nightmare for the heads up and to Harry for confirming/not contradicting the news.

Its making my brain hurt thinking about what exactly they are going to put into this box to not only promote their own game, but to make it playable at the same time as a starter.
Though considering how the recent starters have included quite a bit of stuff in order to make playable though albeit small armies, I have high yet fleeting hopes for this set.
Not that I need anything included in the box since I have so much already, but I really want a mini rulebook....badly.

ForgottenLore
09-09-2010, 15:47
but I really want a mini rulebook....badly.

Amen. I could end up buying two of the sets just for the mini rule books. One to toss in my bag to take to the game shop and one to keep at home.

Railgunner
26-09-2010, 20:24
Could also mean some plastic Captains, Banners and Hornblowers/ Musicians as well maybe? That would be rather cool, although the only sort of news that really would interest me is anything concerning Rohan or Corsairs.

RG

Shnerg
28-09-2010, 19:01
I can't wait if this is true.

shadesofchaos
09-10-2010, 19:31
I would very much like 2 see GW release a starter set for 'WotR'. I used to play 'SBG' many moons ago and have a shedload of models...some like 5k good 5.5k evil (both become unmanagable). Got the 'WotR' rulebook a few months back but as yet havn't found any players in my area as yet. Hopefully a starter set will stoke the fire of some players.

scarletsquig
14-10-2010, 21:58
This is what's needed IMO. In the 10 years that LotR has been around for, it hasn't ever been able to offer a good approachable way to play the "big battle" scenes from the films.

I was hoping the return of the king book was going to expand the rules into a mass battle combat system, but no such luck... hopefully this will finally give LotR the treatment it needs.

Glabro
15-10-2010, 17:02
Hmmm....so new rules / lists or no new rules / lists?
I'm confused.

Wotr REALLY needs revised lists and to balance out the basic stats like Fight with Def.

Xelee
15-10-2010, 21:38
Glabro, I don't think GW are ever going to 'balance' WOTR to that degree. I'm not sure they have a single game out there where they have put in the effort to do this exhaustively and WOTR seems, more than the rest, intended to work only as a game between opponents who are being reasonable. So we will remain in a situation where some units are better value than others but army themes will structure things a little. I agree that there are some major balance holes beyond this, but even if the GW designer recognises them, I don't think they merit a revision on their own. We can sort them out ourselves.

The reality is, a lot of this thing balances out in-game, where the choices you make and how you position + plan ahead in terms of moves matters enough to down-play the list crunching element. Of course it still could decide games, but in my time playing I can mostly (the exceptions relate to the handful of 'balance holes' alluded to above) trace how the battle went to identifiable in-game choices, so it seems 'balanced enough'.

However, that does not mean a re-work of the rules has no value. In fact, I think that if this is a loosish game between the right kind of players, then extensive housruling becomes all the more reasonable.

Glabro
15-10-2010, 22:22
I hear you. Everything can be agreed upon between the players - I'd be doing this with my friends. However, since the game is so expensive, I wouldn't want to expand my LOTR forces just to play with them (not that I could find any players besides them, house rules or not).

That's why I think a tighter ruleset could appeal to a larger audience.

One could always do LOTR in a different scale - 6-10mm anyone?

Steam_Giant
16-10-2010, 15:26
One could always do LOTR in a different scale - 6-10mm anyone?

This thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274005) discusses the possibilities of WOTR gaming in another scale.

I think the idea has some mileage and needs someone to spearhead the movement. Ive considered the idea but wont be committing to anything now till next year.

I think the time for a WOTR boxset to do well has passed.. What a shame

DavidCart
19-10-2010, 15:13
hmm pretty cool, hope its true

ForgottenLore
19-10-2010, 15:41
I can't wait if this is true.


I would very much like 2 see GW release a starter set for 'WotR'.


hmm pretty cool, hope its true

So is there anything new on this front or is this thread pretty much just these types of posts?

It has been 2 1/2 months since the first post, I would have expected some real corroboration by now if it was really happening. Anyone have any new information?

If not, maybe the thread should be closed since it hasn't even really been a discussion for a month.

BobtheInquisitor
22-10-2010, 15:40
One could always do LOTR in a different scale - 6-10mm anyone?

Isn't that what the "Battle of Five Armies" box from Specialist Games is?

Jind_Singh
22-10-2010, 19:07
Wonder what they would scrap from the big rule book - there's a few pages here and there like the small battle report at the start, modeling section, ext, but how will they condense that mammoth book into a small version?
If this rumor is true it will be simply amazing as I really want to start Gondor and Mordor - I'd buy a new box each month!!

Glabro
23-10-2010, 22:42
Isn't that what the "Battle of Five Armies" box from Specialist Games is?

Not really - that's only for one scenario and uses Warmaster rules (which are nice).

I meant using War of the Ring rules with 6-10mm models.

ForgottenLore
23-10-2010, 23:53
Wonder what they would scrap from the big rule book - there's a few pages here and there like the small battle report at the start, modeling section, ext, but how will they condense that mammoth book into a small version?

Checking the rulebook, there are 195 necessary pages, including all the army lists. The Warhammer Fantasy 8th mini rulebook has 184 pages so it shouldn't be that hard.

Godswildcard
16-11-2010, 19:24
so I heard a guy in my FLGS mention this the other day. Is there anymore information on this? Its getting awfully close to the holidays...and it'd be great to pick up a bunch of warriors of minas tirith....

lotrchampion
16-11-2010, 22:00
It's not coming anytime soon I'm afraid. Earliest predictions have it as September 2011, and thats only speculation based on the last 3 previous Septembers having boxed game releases. Don't hold your breath. If you want WoMT, pick up the boxes - at 16.50 (or equiv.) for 24 figures, they're a bargain compared with 40k/WH.

Xelee
16-11-2010, 22:25
That timing would make a huge amount of sense for a Hobbit Film in 2012. They would be putting out a box at a point where the LOTR buzz is building and have it there in stores and established with some next-year support for film release.

But in anycase, yes just get boxes from whichever retailer gives you the best deal. They aren't that expensive and you can also bulk out common armies like Minas Tirith via auction sites. It is the metal fiefdom troops that can get expensive, not that you have to field these for a good army.

Kruger_NZ
07-12-2010, 22:29
Hmm, a starter set sounds pretty cool, though at GW pricing it coould struggle to fly.

IMO most people who play WOTR have already picked up as much stuff as they need by now or can aquire most things from other sources. For the box set to really work it would have needed to launch initially when the hype from the movies was still there and all the little kiddies could pressure there parents to buy it for them. I agree with Xelee that time has long passed.

Though if the rumours are true then depending on price a mini-copy of the rule book would be nice. I dont expect them to actually rework any of the core rules/ list though, this smacks of a "repackage" for a "new" product with minimal effort. New plastics would be nice though...if they happen.

Guess its a wait and see :P