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Astraeos
06-08-2010, 20:33
As I said previously in my Dark Elves list thread, I'm rewriting my lists for 8th but I've been away from Warhammer for along time.
I wrote this list yesterday but I'm not quite happy with it. It's been a hell of a long time since I played my Vamps, in fact the last time I used them I was using the Ravening Hordes booklet!

So please be fair in your C&C please! I'm still a little bit uncertain about this list.

Lords & Heroes-

Vampire Lord- 350
Crown of the Damned
Earthing Rod
Blood Drinker
Beguile
Nightmare

Vampire 1- 155
Dispell Scroll
Dark Acolyte

Vampire 2- 165
Nightshroud
Sword of Might
Walking Dead

Vampire 3- 140
Ghoulkin
Summon Ghouls

Wight King- 100
Battle Standard


Core-

20 Skeletons- 180
Full Command Group

20 Skeletons- 200
Full Command Group, Spears

40 Zombies- 172
Musician, Standard Bearer

20 Ghouls- 168
Ghast

17 Dire Wolves- 146
Doom Wolf


Special-

20 Grave Guard- 290
Full Command Group, Great Weapons

9 Black Knights- 256
Full Command Group


Rare-

Varghulf- 175


Total- 2497

Vamps 1 & 2 will be with the Skeletons, Vamp 3 will be with the Ghouls while the Wight King will be in the Grave Guard probably. The Lord will ride with the Black Knights.

Astraeos
08-08-2010, 18:53
Sorry to be a Threadmancer, but does anyone think this list is any good? Or is it so dead good no one has anything to say!

Stopping puns now.

I did wonder if I should replace the Black Knights with something else and put my Vampire Lord on foot. Maybe more Grave Guard?
Did I add too many Vampire heroes?

explorator
08-08-2010, 19:40
You don't really need all those vamps, I would trade two of them in for Necro's. All of your infantry units need to be larger.

I am not sold on Black Knights , but they might make a decent bunker for your Wight King if he was mounted as well.

Ethos
08-08-2010, 19:47
Beguile has almost no affect, since enemy models can just attack your Black Knights if they wish - or get a re-roll on their Leadership test (most likely from their General, so it'll be no less than a 5 re-rollable).

Earthing Rod I find to not matter, especially for its points. If you get a miscast, fine. You could re-roll into a worse outcome, anyway. Sure, it's there for when you need it, but I'd rather put the points elsewhere into something that will be used more efficiently.

The magic scene is different now, so having more Vampires is almost pointless - just use Necromancers to single-die spam cast. Other than that, you won't need all those Vampires for casting. Either make some combat based, or remove them altogether.

Skeletons with spears are no better than Ghouls, except for their banner and musician. At which in that case, I go for hand weapon and shield. Ghouls have the same number of attacks, and in fewer ranks, as Skeletons with spears. Ghouls also have poison, which is very nice when you have your optimum 41 attacks. Ghouls are also 1 point cheaper than spear'd Skeletons. I've done my math quite a bit - the ability to kill a Ghouls is no easier - and a few times harder - than a Skeleton with a spear.

I would rather take out your entire Black Knight unit, make them Grave Guard, and form the Grave Guard unit 10 wide, 4 deep. If you can, add a second Varghulf. That unit of Grave Guard won't need flankers to win, but the 2 Varghulfs are very effectvie - and cost slightly less than 5 Blood Knights with full command and Hatred.

I've tried Blood Knights a bit, too. Unless you have a Vampire to go with them to raise them back up again, they'll get eaten by whatever is big and bad - magic, shooting, combat, etc. Initiative 4 is better than most, but even the "most" will get their attacks back. Varghulfs are better on the defense, and almost as good on the offense (with Thunderstomp, that is).

Astraeos
09-08-2010, 17:37
Thanks for the advice.

What magic item load out do you recommend for the necromancers? What about a Corpse cart?

How much larger for my Infantry units would you recommend?

I'll look for some other powers and items for my Vamp lord. I thought I had a combat Vamp in there (the one with the sword of might and walking dead)!
I take it she'll have to be on foot (Lahmian theme, hence beguile).

Ok, I'll replace the spear skellies with another Ghoul unit, but it wouldn't be Vampire counts without some skeletons!

More Grave Guard and a second Varghulf, sounds good!

Astraeos
11-08-2010, 21:29
Right, revamped my list! What is it with me and the puns when it comes to Vampire counts?

Fortune, Vampire Lord (Lady, Lahmians)- 340
Crown of the Damned
Tomb Blade
Red Fury
Walking Death

Lisskael, Vampire- 165
Nightshroud
Sword of Might
Walking Death

Dem Bonez, Wight King- 125
Battle standard
Banner of the Endless Nightmare

Necromancer 1- 95
Invocation of Nehek
Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Dispel Scroll

Necromancer 2- 95
Invocation of Nehek
Raise Dead
Sceptre De Noirot

29 Skeletons- 262
Full Command
Banner of Hellfire
Led by Fortune and Dem Bonez

40 Zombies- 172
Standard Bearer
Musician
Led by Necromancer 2

20 Ghouls- 168
Ghast

20 Ghouls- 168
Ghast

20 Grave Guard- 290
Full Command
Great Weapons
Led by Lisskael

20 Grave Guard- 270
Full Command

Varghulf- 175

Varghulf- 175

That looks a bit more potent I think.

Ethos
14-08-2010, 05:49
1). No characters in Zombie units. Against the rules.

2). Have you seen what a horde of 40 Grave Guard with great weapons can do? Especially with Banner of the Barrows? Maybe even getting help via a Vampire with the Helm of Commandment? Hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's; glorious. With the ability to Nehek, a 10-wide unit of Grave Guard will do wonders at killing things. Helm or no, having that unit will be amazing.

3). Necromancers, I find, are only useful for the Nehek on one die factor towards the end of my power dice pool, as well as that dispell scroll and any other magic related items (I take Staff of Damnation for that time when I need a unit to make it's attacks... simply because I want to kill models).

4). I never leave home without a Corpse Cart. Having always strike first and a negation to casting magic (or even to add that extra Grave Guard when Neheking) is very, very good.


Those are my thoughts. But, please, find what works for you and your strategy.

Astraeos
14-08-2010, 14:21
Good advice, forgot that characters can't lead zombies.

I've revamped the list again, and I think it does look a bit more stronger than before. I had 122 points left over and after finding I couldn't get a Ghoulkin vampire, I took a look at the book and came up with three choices-

Lots of Vampire Bats.
Dire Wolves.
Another 15 Ghouls to bolster my existing Ghoul units.

Although expanding the Ghoul units to 25 and 30 strong would be a great idea, I felt I needed another unit, and being a dog lover I had to go for some Undead doggies. Plus they're a fast unit and I thought I could do with some speed.

So here's the latest version-


Fortune, Vampire Lady- 330
Crown of the Damned
Blood Drinker
Red Fury

Lisskael, Vampire- 170
Flayed Hauberk
Sword of Might
Walking Death

Dirty Karl, Necromancer- 195
Invocation of Nehek
Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Dispel Scroll
Corpse Cart with Balefire


The Boneheads, 25 Skeletons- 230
Full Command
Banner of Hellfire
Led by Lisskael

The Grateful Undead, 40 Zombies- 172
Standard Bearer
Musician

The Grave Robbers, 20 Ghouls- 168
Ghast

The Grave Diggers, 20 Ghouls- 168
Ghast

The Dead Dogs, 15 Dire Wolves- 120

The Doomed Patrol, 40 Grave Guard- 595
Full Command
Great Weapons
Banner of the Barrows
Led by Fortune

Screamer, Varghulf- 175

Shrieker, Varghulf- 175


Total- 2498

If only I could've thought of a Harry Potter pun for that Necromancer!

BTW, Dirty Karl is a bit of a homage to a Necromancer I have who in my childhood I affectionately named "Filthy Bob". I dunno why, guess I'm prone to having a laugh with my Undead.

Yrrdead
16-08-2010, 01:10
Personally I can't stand necro's. I suggest you get a few games in and see if you like "necro spam". I find it is mostly ineffectual to getting any spells off. If you are making a "soft" non caster list than please ignore this.

Additions to your current list -

Random/Characters - I would ditch the Corpse Cart. I would pick up a Staff of Damnation to throw some dice at to get that magic phase attack. Works well with a horde. I'd think about a potion of Strength on your Lady Vamp. It really helps RF when you need it.


Skeletons - Honestly they aren't really going to do much, I would drop Banner of Hellfire and pick up War Banner. This gives you +5SCR which is pretty decent.

Ghouls - I would combine the two ghoul units into a horde. It will save you 8pts :P and it is slightly intimidating and also pretty versatile. Can be offensive and if you hit something nasty you reform to get the +3SCR and tarpit.

Dire Wolves - Split them into two units. I play with 10 in my list because of two reasons. One , I have 10 painted. Two , its two very cheap placements. With the loss of the fast cavalry rule Dire Wolves lost quite a bit of effectiveness. Though people for some reason always want to shoot/magic them as they suicide run towards war machines. I giggle a bit every time they "waste" shots on them.

Edit - Overall I like the list pretty balanced rock hard center, two good flanking pairs of Doggies + Varghulfs. Quite a few placements. This should allow you to place your GGhorde in the most advantageous position. I think the lack of casting(level) will hurt but should make for some real fun friendly games.

Astraeos
16-08-2010, 18:55
Thanks for the info. As I said earlier, the last time I played was with the Ravening Hordes booklet so I'm pretty alien to a lot of tactics and what works and all.
So as a result I have no idea whether I'll like Necromancers as they are or not. I'm kinda put off by the whole stuck at lvl 1 thing when they used to be portrayed as so much more powerful. What about a Vampire spellcaster?

What does RF mean?

Ghoul Horde. Hmm, one half of me thinks that could work while another half is unsure of losing a unit (even if it means making an even bigger unit in the process). The horde may be worth a shot though.
Seems I may end up with a horde theme. Maybe a necro with vanhel's danse macabre to push them along would be worth it.

If I split my wolves into two units of five, then I could drop the remaining five and add another five Skeletons to that unit

What if I reconfigure my Vampire Lord to be a spellcaster?

Hmm, not too much to change here this time.

Astraeos
16-08-2010, 20:22
Right, had another look at the army. Looks like it's going horde! Or at least big rank bonuses!

Thought about the magic thing, and even though I greatly lack Warhammer experience I've switched Dirty Karl for a Dark Acolyte vampire with that Staff of Damnation everyone seems to recommend.

Fortune, Vampire Lady- 330
Crown of the Damned
Blood Drinker
Red Fury

Lisskael, Vampire- 170
Flayed Hauberk
Sword of Might
Walking Death

Rohesia, Vampire- 180
Dark Acolyte
Staff of Damnation
Biting Blade

The Boneheads, 30 Skeletons- 295
Full Command
War Banner
Led by Lisskael

The Grateful Undead, 40 Zombies- 172
Standard Bearer
Musician

The Grave Diggers, 40 Ghouls- 328
Ghast

The Dead Dogs, 5 Dire Wolves- 40

The Black Hounds, 5 Dire Wolves- 40

The Doomed Patrol, 40 Grave Guard- 595
Full Command
Great Weapons
Banner of the Barrows
Led by Fortune

Screamer, Varghulf- 175

Shrieker, Varghulf- 175

Total- 2500

Edit- Just had a thought, should I switch Rohesia's Biting Blade for a Nightmare?

Yrrdead
16-08-2010, 21:07
Edit- Just had a thought, should I switch Rohesia's Biting Blade for a Nightmare?

No, you don't have any cavalry, so a nightmare would just remove Look Out Sir!

RF = Red Fury. Sorry for the acronym usage , I saw that you mentioned having not played in quite some time then just plain forgot.

Astraeos
16-08-2010, 21:32
It's fine, there are so many acronyms on Warseer I can't keep up sometimes! I
couldn't really give her the potion without dropping some troops it seems.
It would've been good, but I should keep my units as big as possible.

The whole Horde theme is growing on me, this army is gonna look intimidating once it's all collected!

So what's your thoughts on the army now? Was another Vamp a good idea? I may keep her anyway, I wanted lots of vamps to start with.

Yrrdead
17-08-2010, 07:58
I like it. It should be relatively competative. It is in no way overbearing. Depending on your playing atmosphere it should be fun to play with and against.

The core, special and rare are good. If you find you need to change anything it will mainly be altering your hero and lords.

That is kind of how vamps are. At least for me. I get an idea of what I need to tweak. Then I make the vampires I need to make that happen.

Astraeos
17-08-2010, 19:11
Well my gaming atmosphere will probably be whatever Games Workshop hobby centre I go into! None of my friends are currently interested in Warhammer!

Well that sounds like good advice, and it's kinda nice knowing that all I might have to ever change will be the Vampire Lord and Heroes load-outs.

This'll be the first Horde type army I'll have!

Yrrdead
18-08-2010, 01:47
Oh just a side note on the Horde rule. Remember that it is an offensive ability.

So skeletons (in general) should never be deployed or used in Horde formation. Reforming your Horde is often overlooked but especially powerful for ghouls. If they are in combat with something really tough, you just reform for the (hopefully) +3 static combat resolution (for ranks) and keep bringing them back. The same thing applies with your Grave Guard. Though usually that shouldn't be needed. In my experience the ability to Van Hel's into combat(or even for the extra movement) is usually enough to prevent the necessity of having to reform the Grave Guard.

Good luck.

Astraeos
18-08-2010, 21:55
Just as well I like to play aggressively then!

I planned to deploy my skeletons five wide to take advantage of their numbers and the war banner, and I'll try and remember about reforming the unit when I need the ranks.

Thank you for all your help and advice, I'll be sure to put to to good use.

And thanks to everyone else who helped me with this list.