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The Kvlt Is Alive!
07-08-2010, 00:36
Hey guys,

I've not played Fantasy for about 12 years and recently decided to get back in to it.

Have decided to play Empire and have been playing around with army lists, I think this should be quite a balanced list, but need imput from experienced players.

The army is gonna be a Middenheim force, so there's going to be a couple of counts-as in the army (Middenheimers dislike powder weapons, hence substituting the artillery models.)


The Empire - 2,000 points.

Lords:
Ar-Ulric (Counts as Arch Lector) (accompanies Greatswords)
- Sword of Sigismund, Dawn Armour.
points: 205

Wizard Lord
- Level 4, Rod of Power.
points: 240



Heroes:
Bearer of the Banner of Ulric (Counts as Captain of the Empire (accompanies Greatswords.)
- Battle Standard, Full Plate Armour.
points: 83

Priest of Ulric (Counts as Warrior Priest) (accompanies Halberdiers.)
- Additional Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour.
points: 96

Priest of Ulric (Counts as Warrior Priest) (accompanies Knights.)
- Great Weapon, Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armour.
points: 108

Battle Wizard
- Level 2, Seal of Destruction.
points: 145



Core:
Halberdiers (fights in 5 ranks of 7, with Warrior Priest.)
- 35 Halberdiers, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician.
points: 195

Crossbowmen
- 16 Crossbowmen
points: 128

Knights of the White Wolf (fights in 2 ranks of 5, with mounted Warrior Priest.)
- 9 Knights of the White Wolf, Preceptor, Standard Bearer with Banner of Swiftness, Musician.
points: 262



Special:
Teutogen Guard (Counts as Greatswords) (fights in 5 ranks of 7, with Battle Stanard Bearer and Arch Lector.)
- 33 Greatswords, Count's Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician.
points: 360

Ballista (Counts as Great Cannon)
points: 100

Trebuchet (Counts as Mortar)
points: 75


ARMY TOTAL POINTS: 1997


Looking for comments and advice.
Many thanks,
Tom.

librisrouge
07-08-2010, 04:45
Hey guys,

I've not played Fantasy for about 12 years and recently decided to get back in to it.

Have decided to play Empire and have been playing around with army lists, I think this should be quite a balanced list, but need imput from experienced players.


The Empire - 2,000 points.

Lords:
Arch Lector (accompanies Greatswords)
- Sword of Sigismund, Dawn Armour.
points: 205

Wizard Lord
- Level 4, Rod of Power, Seal of Destruction.
points: 285

This guy can't have two arcane items. I'd move the Seal o' Destruction to the Lvl 1 and drop his scroll.

Heroes:
Captain of the Empire (accompanies Greatswords)
- Battle Standard, Heavy Armour.
points: 79

Give this guy Full Plate Armor

Warrior Priest (accompanies Spearmen)
- Additional Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour.
points: 96

Warrior Priest (accompanies Knights)
- Great Weapon, Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armour.
points: 108

Battle Wizard
- Level 1, Dispell Scroll
points: 90

Find a way to give this guy lvl 2. The +1 to cast and dispell means a lot in the new edition. Also, what lores are they using?


Core:
Spearmen
- 29 Spearmen, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician.
points: 255

W/O Shields these guys are just poor halberdiers.

- Detatchment
Swordsmen
- 10 Swordsmen
points: 60

10 might not do much now a days. Consider getting rid of them or upping their number somehow.

Crossbowmen
- 10 Crossbowmen
points: 80


Knights of the White Wolf
- 9 Knights of the White Wolf, Preceptor, Standard Bearer, Musician.
points: 247

Good call. The best way to take knights in 8th Edition, IMO.

Special:
Greatswords
- 28 Greatswords, Count's Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician.
points: 310

Another great unit.

Great Cannon
points: 100

Mortar
points: 75


ARMY TOTAL POINTS: 1990


Any comments/advice?


So basically:

Upgrade Wizard and BSB
Make items legal (gives you some free points.)
Consider swapping around your core choices. Halberdiers and Swordsmen are the name of the game in 8th. Spearmen are OK for main units but should probably have shields to be justified instead of Halberdiers.

The Kvlt Is Alive!
07-08-2010, 18:53
Thanks very much for the advice librisrouge! Have made a few changes to the list, along the lines of what you suggested and also a few changes to unit sizes.

Anyone else who can give me a helping hand?

LanceSaba
07-08-2010, 23:48
I would drop the crossbowmen to add to the swordsmen and change the spear to halberds

give the captain on foot the 1+ armor and pond stone you want him to stay alive.

you could give the priest on foot the sword of might or the wyrmslayer to take down beasts (i play DE so that and the flaming banner really annoys me)

i would then give the arch lector the pope mobile the usual combo of the mace and mirror.

maybe cut some greatswords to do it as i still feel that they die in droves with always strike last and a sorta low armor save.

though to be honest i think your best bet is large block a couple of knights a cannon maybe two mortars and pistoliers to knock out war machines or just use your cannons on them. go cannons man.

I wouldn't even bother with the lvl 2 wizard the lvl 4 is good for the dispel bonus but a lot of dice will be taken up by the priest and the net you 4 more dispel dice which will normally mean you have more dispel dice than they have power dice

Caboose123
08-08-2010, 02:27
My thoughts in the Yellow colour...
[Can I just say that your post looks lovely :)]


The Empire - 2,000 points.

Lords:
Ar-Ulric (Counts as Arch Lector) (accompanies Greatswords)
- Sword of Sigismund, Dawn Armour.
points: 205

I've seen you like the minimilast approach to characters that I personally dislike, though it is by all means viable. I warn you now that I will suggest adding equipment to your characters, that said, I often have trouble equipping my characters. What is this character's role? With his statline, in combat he is pretty weak. He gives you 2 dispel dice, a Ld9 General, and Hatred on the Greatswords. You could give him 2 S5 attacks with re-rolls to hit against some units, but even then he's not very strong in combat, and a captain with the Sword of Sigismund gets more out of it because he would have more Ws, I and Attacks. What I would do with this character is make him as tough as possible so that he can challenge characters and absorb some of the attacks that would otherwise kill the lightly armoured greatswords. Whatever you do, give him a shield, and perhaps the Potion of Speed, it's a mere 5 points and could mean re-rolls to hit for 1 turn.

Wizard Lord
- Level 4, Rod of Power.
points: 240

This is okay, I like to protect my Lv 4 with a ward save, he is both very expensive and very useful. The White Cloak is a personal favourite, if he does leave a unit, a surprising amount of long-range fire are flaming attacks. An Shroud of Magnus could be good instead if you want to spend more points, a 3+ ward against magic, and conferring his magic resistance to a unit could be very advantageous.

Heroes:
Bearer of the Banner of Ulric (Counts as Captain of the Empire (accompanies Greatswords.)
- Battle Standard, Full Plate Armour.
points: 83

Nope. Too minimilist, and the BSB is vital in an empire army. A personal favourite equip for my BSB is the Armour of Meteoric Iron combined with the Dawnstone froom the Common Magic Items

Priest of Ulric (Counts as Warrior Priest) (accompanies Halberdiers.)
- Additional Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour.
points: 96

2 hand weapons? Curious. Maybe a shield, otherwise okay.

Priest of Ulric (Counts as Warrior Priest) (accompanies Knights.)
- Great Weapon, Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armour.
points: 108

I gather you like your Priests. Nothing wrong with that. This guy looks fairly good too.

Battle Wizard
- Level 2, Seal of Destruction.
points: 145

Hmmmm, Seal of Destruction has gotten more powerful in 8th edition, but maybe its a little... excessive? You already have an extra 4 dispel dice. What I would do with this guy is keep him cheap as a supporting mage for your Lv4: Drop a level, and give him either the Channelling Staff or give this guy the Rod of Power and give the Lv4 some Power Stones (Handy when you roll 2-5 on your power dice pool.


Core:
Halberdiers (fights in 5 ranks of 7, with Warrior Priest.)
- 35 Halberdiers, Sergeant, Standard Bearer, Musician.
points: 195

This formation is kind've unusual. It looks fairly good, but maybe bump up the size by maybe 5 guys if you can find the points, they are frail when shot or magic-ed, and will probably be striking last in combat too, you want those 14 attacks! In bigger games consider increasing them to horde formation.

Crossbowmen
- 16 Crossbowmen
points: 128

You have enough points in Core from the Halberdiers and the Knights of the White Wolf; these guys may as well be a detachment for the Halberdiers, there are a few downsides, but the advantage is well worth it, if it's ever used.

Knights of the White Wolf (fights in 2 ranks of 5, with mounted Warrior Priest.)
- 9 Knights of the White Wolf, Preceptor, Standard Bearer with Banner of Swiftness, Musician.
points: 262

Few things here. The knights here are 5x2, which is a nice big unit. But if they want to disrupt ranks (I'm assuming they march down the sides, hoping for a flank charge) they need to not sustain any casualties as they advance. Adding in 2 knights can solve this. It would help if this were a 2250 points list! ^^ Other than that, you are Knights of the White Wolf, which means you don't necessarily need the charge as badly as regular knights, the Banner of Swiftness isn't vital. I have 2 alternatives here: The Banner of Valour (Because I often regret not taking it...), or the Standard of Discipline from the common magic item list.

If you put your Arch Lector (some easy minor re-jigging) in here, with the Standard of Discipline, he gets the benefit as well, giving you a Ld 10 general! I know having your general mounted may mean he could be too far from your troops, with some careful positioning, a Ld10 general could be worth it.


Special:
Teutogen Guard (Counts as Greatswords) (fights in 5 ranks of 7, with Battle Stanard Bearer and Arch Lector.)
- 33 Greatswords, Count's Champion, Standard Bearer, Musician.
points: 360

Everything here looks fine, but I warn you now, these guys are frail and are a massive target for shooting. Everything that applies to the Halberdiers above apply here.

Ballista (Counts as Great Cannon)
points: 100

Trebuchet (Counts as Mortar)
points: 75

Standard artillery choice, but I would strongly recommend an Engineer. With the new Empire FAQ he can essentially help both of these war machines at once, assuming he is within 3" of both (Still only 1 re-roll a turn, but you would have a choice on whether to apply it to the Cannon or Mortar, and it's unlikely that they both misfire in the same turn.).

ARMY TOTAL POINTS: 1997


Looking for comments and advice.
Many thanks,
Tom.

I suggested adding quite a few things, but dropping little. It must be very obvious that I usually play 2250 games myself! :P

The list itself looks balanced and solid, if a little static. Similar to my own. I'm guessing the plan will usually be sit back, and when they come forward finish off their weakened units. There are a few weaknesses:

1) Frailty. An opponent with strong shooting will quickly make your Greatswords and Halberdiers too weak to survive combat (After all, both will be striking last against the majority of foes, and are easily killed, they need lots of manpower). To counter this, a unit of Huntsmen, or Pistoliers, whose job it is to take down/annoy shooting units/war machines (Your magic might be able to do this too, depending on the spells you get.).

2) The Deathstar. What happens if you face a unit you cannot beat in combat? On the face of it, this might seem like a tall order, but your shooting isn't ideal for shooting a lot of T4 4+ save (or better) enemies, and something like a Chaos Lord or Vampire Lord could very well rip through your army. To counter, well, there's not much you can do. Van Horstmann's Speculum may be worth another look.

3) Flankers. Scouts/Flyers/Fast Cavalry could be a big problem. Again your shooting isn't really ideal for hunting these guys who will threathen your war machines and the flanks of your units. Relying on magic to take these guys down is... risky.

Anyway, goodluck; and I will be back to check up on this list and your purty posts! :D