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Elenneth89
07-08-2010, 12:05
for ideals of religious pureness, the marines cannot drink alcoholic drinkings, isn'it? so why the space wolves usually drink beer and other? even if they don't follow the codex astartes, they are marine at the end...

SharpSilver
07-08-2010, 12:14
Because the Space Wolves are the most unorthodox Chapter in the Codex Astartes, and it's a "Screw you!" To Robute Guilliman and his Codex and the Ecclesiarchy of the Imperium, and in particular, and the departments responsible for the atrocities commited on the worlds such as during the 1st War of Armageddon, who the Space Wolves have a bitter relationship with.

Plus it's a Fenrisian thing, where it's tradition to drink plenty of Ale, and since it's a Death World, combined with tribes of Barbarians, equals the Religious practices of the Imperium not really taking hold on the Planet very well, or at all.

abasio
07-08-2010, 12:18
I though Space Marines didn't drink because they couldn't get intoxicated but that the Space Wolves had some super kick ass kill an orc by breathing on it brew.

SharpSilver
07-08-2010, 12:26
I though Space Marines didn't drink because they couldn't get intoxicated but that the Space Wolves had some super kick ass kill an orc by breathing on it brew.

The brew that fills the Barrels within the Fang is possibly the most potent beverage in the Imperium. Specially made for Space Wolves who would not otherwise be able to feel the effect. :D

Or it could be taken the other way, perhaps the Implants were modified to allow a certain combination of toxins flow through the Space Wolves.

We'll never truly know. ;)

narrativium
07-08-2010, 12:32
But abasio's right, Space Marines mostly don't drink because it doesn't make them drunk.

Besides, it's difficult to be religiously pure when you don't believe in gods.

Elenneth89
07-08-2010, 12:34
Besides, it's difficult to be religiously pure when you don't believe in gods.
and the emperor what is for the ecclesiarchy?

so we can say that the wolves spit beer instead of the acid of the normal marines^^

narrativium
07-08-2010, 12:41
The Ecclesiarchy believe in the God-Emperor of Mankind. They ensure the Imperium believes in the God-Emperor.

Space Marines don't believe he's a god. Mostly.

Iuris
07-08-2010, 12:43
Um, since when are they not supposed to drink? Space wolves worship their beer, Ultramarine captains enjoy fine wine and I remember that many chapter masters will allow alcohol as a reward for particularly good performance at training.

BaronDG
07-08-2010, 13:03
Religious pureness? Not drinking? I don't see the connection...

massey
07-08-2010, 14:30
Yeah, where do you get the idea that religions don't allow drinking?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist

Corax
07-08-2010, 14:44
The Space Wolves pretty much cock a leg on the Codex Astartes and notions of purity and piety generally. The Wolves do things their way, regardless of what anyone else thinks, so if they want to get liquored up and call it "chapter ritual" they will, Guilliman be damned.

Lord Malorne
07-08-2010, 14:49
Not drinking has nothing to do with religion in 40k.

Sinisterfence
07-08-2010, 16:37
to add to what everyone else is saying, just because their bodies filter the toxins it doesn't mean they don't get drunk, it means the effect doesn't last as long/ no hangover. + They're "Vikings in SPAAAAAAAAAACE!" Vikings drink beer.

massey
07-08-2010, 17:29
to add to what everyone else is saying, just because their bodies filter the toxins it doesn't mean they don't get drunk, it means the effect doesn't last as long/ no hangover. + They're "Vikings in SPAAAAAAAAAACE!" Vikings drink beer.

Exactly. Plus, there are always ways to get around having organs that filter out alcohol. Just drink more.

Lupe
07-08-2010, 17:33
Just drink more.

Or stronger stuff. Or more stronger stuff. Like paint remover...

spetswalshe
07-08-2010, 18:09
Religious pureness? Not drinking? I don't see the connection...

A great deal of religions believe alcohol to be, at best, a distraction from God. Most notably, Islam forbids it almost entirely, as do a great deal of Christian sects. And technically speaking, the rite of communion in Christianity transmutes the wine into blood, so there's no alcohol going on there.

I always figured alcohol would be drank by 'normal' Marines - not the puritan Black Templar types - but wouldn't be considered preferable to any other beverage. Just because you can't get drunk doesn't mean you wouldn't enjoy a beer now and then. However, the idea that Space Wolves can get drunk merely by drinking pure ethanol seems a bit silly. Drinking, slapping each other on the back and sleeping off a hangover are all recreational activities that draw away hours of a Marine's time that could be better spent shooting things or fighting stuff. If the SW do in fact get smashed of a Sunday, I would expect them to compare really unfavourably to proper, all-training-all-the-time Marines. I mean even an all-Company dance contest would be a more effective use of their time.

Scalebug
07-08-2010, 18:11
Is the super-strong, directly toxic, Space Wolf beer canon or just fan-cruft?

I only remember the note on the drinking contest rules; first one to pass out is the winner, as he has managed to drink such a stupid amount of ale fast enough that his organs couldn't keep up.

That, and an Inquisitor being the guest of the Space Wolves and using de-tox drugs while drinking, but that would really make sense in it self, as he was there to document their customs, and would have wanted to be alert in any case, not necessarily because he,well, wanted to avoid outright dying...

Lord Malorne
07-08-2010, 18:12
Black Templars are zealous, not puritant, knightly orders know how to feast :shifty:

Lupe
07-08-2010, 20:03
There probably isn't any chapter that outright bans alcohol.

Even the more conservative Imperial Fists or Ultramarines would serve copious amounts of wine for special occasions. Not after a victory - devotion is its own reward. Most likely for memorial events, or to honor the fallen, though. Of course, being stern defenders of the realm, they could not lower themselves to proper inebriation, nor would they be willing to spoil a fine vintage by numbing their taste buds - still they could down quite a lot by mortal standards.

The Black Templars and the Blood Angels, I see as having highly mystified feasts before battle. The former in honor of their Emperor's Champion, and as a brash display of faith and confidence - even against overwhelming odds, they will not back down on their traditions. The latter would probably have something closer to a last supper kind of feast - after all, they're likely heading to death or worse the next morning. Obviously, alcohol would be served, but although getting properly wasted isn't even frowned upon, the Blood Angels would not abuse it. They're well too aware that a focused mind is their best chance not succumb to madness or bloodthirst.

The Dark Angels and the Raven Guard - I see them as the kind to carry hip flasks with them. I can sort of imagine them taking a sip of brandy after a raid, just before hiding the bodies...

gwarsh41
07-08-2010, 20:11
There are plenty of people who are pretty pissed at the wolves for being who they are, I believe the imperium and the sisters of battle have raided Fenris more than once. The gates of the fang have never been broken.

ryng_sting
07-08-2010, 20:15
The SW brew their own beer and mead. It would probably make an ordinary man's liver explode just from smelling it. As it is, even the SW have to neck a lot of it and quickly to feel the effects, and rarely have a hangover the next day.

Lupe
07-08-2010, 20:16
There are plenty of people who are pretty pissed at the wolves for being who they are, I believe the imperium and the sisters of battle have raided Fenris more than once. The gates of the fang have never been broken.

And let's not forget the Thousand Sons, who are pretty pissed off with the Wolves, about Nikaea, that little incident with Prospero, and, most importantly, the sharp decrease in beer supply throughout the galaxy

AndrewGPaul
07-08-2010, 22:07
A great deal of religions believe alcohol to be, at best, a distraction from God. Most notably, Islam forbids it almost entirely

As I understand it, Islam prohibits drinking the "fruit of the vine", i.e. wine (and possibly beer, depending on certain definitions). It also allows drinking alcohol for medicinal reasons, and also allows believers to do things normally prohibited if the believer's life is in danger. For instance, lining up a load of people and saying "drink this beer or I'll shoot you".

In any case, the Imperium of Man isn't a Christian or Islamic state, and extrapolating too wildly is unwise. For example, the Adepta Sororitas are not necessarily celibate.

Col. Tartleton
08-08-2010, 04:50
The Space Marine Beer contains a top secret chemical which temporarily turns off their super liver (I forget its name. Preomnor?) It allows them to get very intoxicated. However they're giants and they still filter it out quivkly, so they guzzle it from the barrel with no ill effects besides the full bladder they kindly relieve wherever they like.

Marines drink booze. They like the taste. I like the taste. Even if I couldn't get drunk I'd enjoy a beer with meals or wine. Only Space Wolves can get drunk from it.

And Adepta Sororitas are not only not necessarily celibate they're anything but. They're Hierodules not Hierophants. They're the "Adept Sisters." If you know what I'm talking about.

Hunger
09-08-2010, 14:21
And technically speaking, the rite of communion in Christianity transmutes the wine into blood, so there's no alcohol going on there.

Heh, because drinking blood is much less satanic...

gwarsh41
09-08-2010, 19:39
heh, because drinking blood is much less satanic...

witch!!!! Its a witch!!! Burn the heretic!!!

baphomael
09-08-2010, 19:53
for ideals of religious pureness, the marines cannot drink alcoholic drinkings, isn'it? so why the space wolves usually drink beer and other? even if they don't follow the codex astartes, they are marine at the end...

Sorry, where'd you get that idea?


Each chapter has its own 'chapter cult' - a pseudo-religious (since many chapters dont accept the Lectitio Divinitatus - the Emperor was a gifted, potent, individual but not a god) or religious (some chapters do believe in the 'God-Emperor' rather than just 'Emperor, but these dont necessarily fit with the teachings of the Adeptus Ministorum) cult specific to each chapter. Some might indulge in alcohol, others might not.

Just look at our own religions - two of the major religions that follow the God of Classical Theism - Christianity and Islam - have very diffirent attitudes to alcohol despite worshipping, essentially, the same 'god'. For Islam, alcohol is completely haraam - its prohibited, while for christians wine is a vital part of the sacrament of communion (having said that, many churches use non-alcoholic wine...but thats more out of choice than religious scripture. As the apocryphal tale goes; the prince of kiev chose christianity over Islam and Judaism when casting off their pagen past because booze formed a vital part of the religion).

Each chapters' pseudo-religious or religious practices are their own - each do things in different ways (which annoys the Ministorum no end). The Space Wolves, in particular, are extremely independent - and to their culture beer is an important cultural fetish that forms the basis of many social rituals (much in the same way, a British Conservative MP during the 20s - I forget which - was asked to give his opinion on what kinds of disaster would cause "mass panic" - his answer was following America in its policy of Prohibition. Pubs formed a cornerstone of local communities, particularly rural communities).


Though, of course, there is the point that most of the stricter Codex Astartes adherants have little time to get bombed - with the Codex standard of 15 minutes free time to contemplate, and short meal times, the codex doesnt really allow a Marine the chance to indulge. Though, of course, not all chapters follow the codex to the letter (or at all).


The brew that fills the Barrels within the Fang is possibly the most potent beverage in the Imperium. Specially made for Space Wolves who would not otherwise be able to feel the effect. :D

Or it could be taken the other way, perhaps the Implants were modified to allow a certain combination of toxins flow through the Space Wolves.

We'll never truly know. ;)

I'd take it as the latter. If a marine's resistance to toxins is as strong as is suggested in the fluff then it wouldnt be possible to create a beer strong enough to get a marine drunk without rendering it no longer 'beer'.
If Fenrisian Ale, purportadely able to get a Space Wolf drunk, is really an Ale at all then they've either played about with their own physiology to allow themselves to get drunk, or that it isnt the alcohol itself (or alone), but rather some ingredient/s (perhaps a local fenrisian herb or some such that contains a potent toxin) that affect a marine's physiology. Either way, with a normal Astartes physiology, 'beer' isnt going to cut it - nor would a spirit - marines can process poisons and toxins of almost all kinds so even a bottle of white spirit would probably cause little harm.

I'd gather marines are rather unaffected by alcohol itself, but the choice of other toxic ingredients that affect their ability to process toxins. Afterall, I've suffered champagne hangovers and jack 'n coke hangovers, and theres certainly a difference ;) Oh, and those words of wisdom about avoiding mixing vine and hop.


Yeah, where do you get the idea that religions don't allow drinking?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist


Halal.

Qu'ran: Surah 5, verse 90.


Nuff said.

Jayden63
09-08-2010, 21:46
Frensian beer is as much like earth beer as Fernsian wolves are like earth wolves.

There is no way SW are drinking a simple malt beverage. Its something else, especially made by them, just for them and for simplicity its just called beer.

Col. Tartleton
09-08-2010, 21:57
It is beer with a secret ingredient that turns off their poison protection. Its brewed with a unique flower or berry or something from Fenris. Its also probably pure grain alcohol on top of that, but who knows.

Corax
10-08-2010, 05:55
It is beer with a secret ingredient that turns off their poison protection. Its brewed with a unique flower or berry or something from Fenris. Its also probably pure grain alcohol on top of that, but who knows.

What is the source for that fact?

Iverald
10-08-2010, 14:47
And technically speaking, the rite of communion in Christianity transmutes the wine into blood, so there's no alcohol going on there.


Depending on the particular sect, but as far I remember my theology, in Roman Catholicism it is the Aristotelian question of form and substance, i.e. wine (and alcohol) is the form, Blood of Christ is the substance. :)

MajorWesJanson
10-08-2010, 14:57
What is the source for that fact?

Sounds like the Space wolf novels.

Even the poison filters take some time to break down toxins and such in a space marine. Add a substance that takes a while to break down but is not otherwise dangerous, and the alcohol will have the normal effect. Of course massive amounts are required simply due to Astartes increased body mass.

Col. Tartleton
10-08-2010, 15:30
Space Wolves novels indeed. William King. I'm saying its cannon until told otherwise.

gwarsh41
10-08-2010, 15:36
I second this motion that said fluff is cannon.

Iuris
10-08-2010, 16:02
I'm thirding the motion that it's as much canon as anything else is, ie, that if GW doesn't bother with canon, all is equally as canon as everything else.

Grand_Marshal_Kazan
10-08-2010, 16:37
Or stronger stuff. Or more stronger stuff. Like paint remover...

Or if it was the Discworld, Scrumble.

AndrewGPaul
10-08-2010, 21:47
Space Wolves novels indeed. William King. I'm saying its cannon until told otherwise.

Seems reasonable. After all, Bill was responsible for the whole "space viking" background for the Space Wolves, so you might as well accept this bit too. :)