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CthulhuDalek
08-08-2010, 02:16
This is both a rules question and tactics question, and I'd rather not burden the rules forum with this...

My idea for a build is basically:

Vampire Lord
Ethereal
Avatar of Death
Winged(don't have the army book on me at the moment for the name)
Level 3

Now the big controversy with this build...

I want to know if its possible to join this vampire to a unit of BLACK KNIGHTS?

Under 7th edition rules this vampire would be almost useless, but since (as far as I can see) Black Knights now have the ethereal rule, couldnt this flying vampire join them, allow them to march and still retain their ethereal move?

Benefits: the vampire rule allows the unit to march, the vampire can benefit from whatever banner (strigos?) you give them, and provides mobile magic AND combat. And with his wings, the vampire can always "bug out" if things get to hot for the knights.

Possible flaws in this idea are if I'm misinterpreting the new way flying, cavalry and ethereal work.

I'm really just looking for a way to make ethereal worth 50 points without doing a crazy mountain chimera thing, or joining wraiths,

*I just wish that ethereal still allowed the character to take some items or steeds considering how much of the vampire powers it takes up.

artisturn
08-08-2010, 04:24
I don't think you will be able to do that.

The Black Knights have Ethereal movement which isn't really the same as being pure Ethereal.

Symrivven
08-08-2010, 08:40
Artisturn is right, only the movement of the skeletal steeds is ethereal.

Most often when someone finds something controversial or truly unique its do to misreading the book/faq. :)

I'm afraid your vampire is stuck with spirit hosts and wraiths.

gork or maybe mork
08-08-2010, 14:46
Doesn't the faq make black knights fully ethereal? I'm pretty sure it says something like 'replace the ethereal movement rule with the ethereal rule from the warhammer rulebook'.

Clyde Arrowny
08-08-2010, 15:35
If you had the character on an ethereal mount it could be done.

ie Wight King on skeletal steed

Faddlevins
08-08-2010, 17:34
Doesn't the faq make black knights fully ethereal? I'm pretty sure it says something like 'replace the ethereal movement rule with the ethereal rule from the warhammer rulebook'.

That refers to the actual ethereal and ethereal movement rules text in the VC book.

From the FAQ:

Page 48 Ethereal Creatures & Ethereal Movement
Ignore these special rules. Use the Ethereal rule from the
Warhammer rulebook.

The steeds still use their rule, which says that they count as ethereal for movement purposes only.

artisturn
08-08-2010, 18:05
As cool as it would be to have Ethereal Knights the FAQ doesn't affect the Black Knights in that manner,It is only the steeds themselves that are ethereal and the FAQ just clarifies how the Black Knights move.

But moving like an ethereal is a boon to our Knights who can move through terrain that would slow down other armies Knights.

Paraelix
08-08-2010, 21:28
It'd also be an expensive Vampire with no LoSir roll.

CthulhuDalek
09-08-2010, 00:39
As cool as it would be to have Ethereal Knights the FAQ doesn't affect the Black Knights in that manner,It is only the steeds themselves that are ethereal and the FAQ just clarifies how the Black Knights move.

But moving like an ethereal is a boon to our Knights who can move through terrain that would slow down other armies Knights.

The reason I ask is that in the past edition I was using 30 black knights and a mounted wight king, and it gets really boring having the ethereal movement, and the ability for a vamp to have ethereal if they cant join one another.

However, as stated above in the FAQ... there is no such thing as "ethereal movement" anymore... only ethereal.

It doesn't seem like such a terribly OP ability considering the cost and negative effects it has on the vamp (no magic items, can't really bunker, very little room for vampire powers, no mount)

With the look out sir roll, could this flying ethereal vampire still stand like 3-6 inches away from the black knights and be better protected?

Paraelix
09-08-2010, 00:49
With the look out sir roll, could this flying ethereal vampire still stand like 3-6 inches away from the black knights and be better protected?

He is required to be the same unit type. Foot/flying vamp is not cavalry. Black Knights are cavalry.

CthulhuDalek
09-08-2010, 07:00
Ahhh. Still need to get the new rulebook, I've been waiting for the starter box, but my friend is buying it tomorrow.

And I went back to check the army-book as well and now I see that the insubstantial steed rules still say it's just ethereal for movement... darn :/

eyescrossed
09-08-2010, 07:31
And I went back to check the army-book as well and now I see that the insubstantial steed rules still say it's just ethereal for movement... darn :/

That got FAQ'd...

Symrivven
09-08-2010, 08:39
That got FAQ'd...

Yes and nothing changed, skeletal steeds count as ethereal for movement purposes only the faq removed the reference to the ethereal box in the VC army book.
Why? There is now a usr for ethereal in the rulebook, so the reference to the ethereal rule in the VC book is no longer needed.

eyescrossed
10-08-2010, 08:00
My bad.

Extra characters...