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Tourniquet
08-08-2010, 10:54
Hey Ladies and Gents,

So i guess this is just going to be another generic "Im new, HALP PLZ!" thread. I have read through the other ones in the first few pages, but, as always, the answeres are curtailed towards the Op's of those threads, hence me seeiking some advice of my own into my first forray into WHFB.

I played 40k for ages in 3rd Ed. and a little dabble here and there in 5th. but i have been out of gaming for a while, and, have never played WHFB. But recently i have had some spare coin, and, had a gaming store open near me that, from what i have seen, mainly playes WHFB. I have some 40k models, but have recently been more inclined towards WHFB moddels for painting.

I would be looking for an army that can be forgiving to someone learning the rules, competative but also fun. That will help me develop an understanding of tactics of the game. Whilst, as mentioned being forgiving to a new player.
And i know Forgiving, competative and requiring tactics often don;t go hand in hand.
But i have had a look through the model ranges as, im sure msot will agree, looks is more important then "AMG MI ARMIE IZ BEAST I POYNT CLIK N STUF GOEZ SQUISH".

There are a few armies i like the look off. but before i go into those, i guess some back ground in what i personally like in fantasy settings.

I'm a big fan of assasins. My favourite book triology is 'The Night Angel Trilogy' ('The way of shadows', 'Shadows Edge', 'Beyond the Shadows') written by brent Weeks. And, if you hadnt guessed i rather like Assasins Creed as well. (especially if an army can get a hero type one of these, so its more like one assasin as opposed to a few random ones)
Besides that I would like somethign that can incorperate Dragons, especially if i could some how slide in this model here (http://www.ultraforgeminiatures.com/dragon.html)
I also enjoy the idea of Warrior Cultures (Such as Feudal Japan) and heavily armoured Knights.

So what i would like from an army is basically a Well armed core fighting force. With the Powerful Shadow type charecter aimed at taking out other hero's (an assasin basically), with a Solid Hero/lord choice supported by some elite infantry/riders.

As to Models themselves, I find myself drawn to Skaven, Warriors of Chaos (Full Plate models only) and Dark Elves.

What i like about skaven is their look and feel. To me they almost appear to have some Feudal Japanese incinations, with the combination of assasins. I really like this army looks wise.

With Warriors of Chaos, what is not to like about heavily armoured behmoths marching into battle? If i were to play Chaos i would be inclined more towards Khorne and Slaanesh. I don't like nurgle much, at all. And Tzeentch(sp?) is kind of iffy with me.

With the Dark Elves i like the Lords and the ideal fo a dark malicious army, with a raider type theme.

Of the three i mentioned Skaven, or Dark Elves would be my most prefured of the two.
but how are they game wise? Do they meet the criteria i mentioned earlier? What would a good starting army roughly look like (around 1k points? Thats a playable level right?)? And what is a good starting point for the Army (Besides the Big Red Book and Army book, obviously)

I know this is a bit of a long winded post, but any replies would be greatly welcomed.

Many Thanks
Tourniquet

Waagghh_Logan
08-08-2010, 11:01
If you like assasins then go for dark elves, their assasin models are really cool.

Plus they have a lot of cool armoured models if your into that stuff too. The executionares and black gaurd are awsesome models

jesusjohn
08-08-2010, 11:18
I would suggest Dark Elves, thay can be forgiving if fragile, but they fit the theme well.

mrtn
08-08-2010, 11:43
Both skaven and dark elves seems to be powerful armies. Skaven have the added advantage of being included in the starter set that's released in a month's time.
Clan Eshin (the ninjas of skaven) originates in the east and learned their "leet ninja skillz" from Cathayan mystics. There pop up threads on doing cathayan skaven from time to time.

Tourniquet
08-08-2010, 14:00
How do both armies play, generally? And what would be a good starting point model wise for each ?

Thanks for the responses so far. i think it has been narrowed down to Dark Elves and Skaven

mrtn
08-08-2010, 19:10
Skaven play with a combination of deadly toys* (both for the enemy and the ratmen) and cheap blocks of troops. However, remember that 8th edition was just released, so if there's any new tactics it's not certain they've been invented yet, the game being so new.

*Poison gas, firethrowers, magic, rockets, mutated monsters, throwing stars etc.

Someone else will have to answer for the dark elves.

Clanrat
08-08-2010, 21:08
ok, very basic difference, Skaven rely on masses of unwashed hordes to hold up the enemy while big nasty things like doomwheels or Vermin lords do the killing. Its an infantry army ( NO cavalry ) but can look great on the tabletop with hordes of troops.
They run away a lot, but the more of them you have the less this happens.
As already mentioned they are in the new starter box to be released (and from what ive heard its a pretty good basic start for a skaven army). As long as you think you can handle painting a LOT of models they`re pretty good. Oh and they`ve got assassins too :)
Best way to think of skaven are as Bond movie villains....really conniving sneaky underhanded characters sending hordes of expendable minions to their death just so they`ll have time to unleash they`re EVIL DOOMSDAY WEAPON (of which there are a very healthy selection)



Dark elves fall pretty much under the opposite side of the spectrum, they`re an elite army, small numbers of highly skilled (and they all have hatred too) troops backed up by decent monsters (hello hydra) and some nasty characters. They have cavalry and pretty decent capabilties in shooting and magic. I personally would say (and bear in mind its only my opinion, id find these guys harder to get to grips with as a beginner simply due to the ease with which they die if the enemy actually gets to hit em back). Bunch of sadistic killers and slavers.

these are just some thoughts, but as ever, best advice really is ...get the models you like most as there`s really no such thing as an army thats harder to learn with than any other.

Duke Georgal
08-08-2010, 21:44
You sound like a Dark Elf player to me.

Have fun!

Aedes
08-08-2010, 23:56
Welcome to the dark side.
Dark Elves are awesome, great models, great magic (at least in 7th), great background, and I LOVE assassins too!

Tourniquet
09-08-2010, 00:39
What would be a good starting force?
And what would a (rough) list look like (say 1-1.5k ish?)

I like the Executioner models,w as going to buy 5 and paint them, see if i like how the army paint's up 9as thats an important aspect for me).

besides there where should i begin?

Aedes
09-08-2010, 00:53
Start with a solid core of spearmen and crossbowmen.
30-40 spearmen and 20 crossbowmen.
You can also add a unit of corsairs, I have heard they became better in the 8th edition
(I never had corsairs, so I cant tell). But the models are great.
Executioners are really great models, and they became more deadly in the 8th edition.
Reaper bold throwers are a MUST, so also get 2 of those (2 count as ONE rare choice).
And as a hero choice-- I still like sorceresses, even when magic became more unpredictable in the 8th edition. But for me a dark elf game is not complete if the sorceress does not blow herself up before the end of the game...
Oh, and get an assassin to hide in one of your infantry.
Here you go, you already have a nice force.

Duke Georgal
09-08-2010, 02:07
Look for an older battalion box on discount. That is a great starting point. Just make sure you don't get one with the older "fat" Cold One Knights in it (if there ever was one).

Jetty Smurf
09-08-2010, 09:24
The current battalion box for Dark Elves has some great models in it! Enough for a reasonably sized starting force.

I recommend getting the battalion box, a box of warriors, and a couple of characters, any will do really (though make sure to get a non-assassin character as assassins can't be the general, and you need yourself a general :)).

Dark Elves are a great starter force, and the entire time I was reading your post I was thinking to myself "Dark Elves sound perfect" and you mentioned DE as one of your choices, so that worked out well. :)

Pretty much you can't go wrong with most of the DE models/units. Even the "sub-par" choices are quite good and they do seem more user-friendly than some other armies out there (currently my gf is learning to play via her DE army). This is not to say they are simple but you needn't be an expert to play them with reasonable success.

As for getting a list to 1k-1.5k I recommend just getting the models you like the look of for the time being, and making a list from that. Also, try to avoid 2 hydras for your 1.5k list (they become a legal choice from 1.4k onwards), as most people will get turned off by it. I recommend leaving the 2nd hydra for 2k+ games.

Hope this helps! :D

ChrisIronBrow
09-08-2010, 10:20
As someone who played a TON of 3rd ed 40k. The most apt comparison I can make is Skaven are very much like Space Orks.


Huge mobs of troops that hardly ever let you down (as long as you brought enough of them) Crazy special rules and wacky warmachines that can devastate entire armies... Hopefully your Enemies..


Dark elves are, well.. Dark elves. Their frail, expensive and fast, but pack a good punch with thier elite troops. Dark elves have arguably the best shooting phase in the game with Core Repeater crossbowmen.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
09-08-2010, 10:43
Both darkies and the vile ratmen are decent choices, as they both have that 'eastern quality', you're looking for.

Darkies are probably spot on, with great cavalry and very elite infantry along with the possibility of dragons and real ninjas :)

Both armies are good decent fun. 8th edition really catered to the ratmen, while the darkies got more in line with every body else :)

Tourniquet
09-08-2010, 11:16
Thanks Guys!
The help is apreciated

For now i grabbed 5 Executioners and some paints. Going to paint these up find a scheme i like. Looking at Black (Grey chainmail, black plate with the "raised" plates being mecharite red, with grey skinand black robes, on snow bases). Hopefully this will come across dark looking.
if i don't like how these paint up, i'll try some skaven see how that goes. But, if all goes well with the Dark Elves, i'll look at Grabbing the battalion Box, 5 more Executioners, a Executioner command and a Hero. As well as the army book.

Then from there probally grab some Repeater bolt throwers and a Hydra.

Again, thanks everyone for the help :)

Crovax20
09-08-2010, 12:10
Dark elves are pretty forgiving, considering just about everything in their book in underpriced in points. I think they are my new most hated army in 8th edition. Used to be Vampire Counts in 7th, but with fear being toned down my goblins don't mind playing against VC anymore.

NFOjalapeno
09-08-2010, 19:27
Dark elves are fogiving to a point IMO. With high I they will strike first but have a glass jaw. I agree your assasins will fit in perfectly in a role to cause more wounds (which you will need seeing as your more than likely going to lose quite a few back). Supporting units is key and DE can do it very well with M5. Executioners are what drew me to pick them up as my 8th Ed army and the cauldron of blood makes Khainite units great (i picture a 30 horde of whitch elves under the +1A getting 60 poisened attacks...ouch). DE have few "unsusable" units which makes them versatile and deadly however you decide to run them.
-pb

Tourniquet
10-08-2010, 01:33
What do you mean by "DE have few "unsusable" units which makes them versatile and deadly however you decide to run them" ?

ChrisIronBrow
10-08-2010, 07:43
I think he means that most armies have a few units that just don't make sense. Either they cost too much, or they are just flat out worse than other units in the book. Dark elves However, have a great balance in that all of thier units are very good, so when building a list it's a difficult challenge deciding what to include, because they are all good. IE, there are no "obvious" choices.

NFOjalapeno
11-08-2010, 01:01
Exactly what I meant Chris. Every unit is competing for points where say (And I know saying this I'm going to get slammed by someone who swears by them) questing knights for Brets or chameleon skinks for LZM really aren't compelling enought to get a place compared to better priced/quality troops. DE really don't have that problem for the most part.

kyussinchains
11-08-2010, 21:34
I'd pretty much agree with everyone else here, if you decide on dark elves, just buy whichever models appeal to you most, you will be able to find a use for them...

A batallion is a great start, and I would recommend adding some dark riders (2 units of 5 is always a good idea) many people dislike the models, so lots of people convert their own, kitbashing wood elf glade riders and dark elf warriors would be a good start. it is rumoured that Dark elves will be getting a 'second wave' of models, including plastic dark riders, harpies and a chariot, as well as some/all of the remaining special characters, there is a rumoured dragon kit too, although this may be a malekith model.....

I would also say however, that the skaven are an awesome army to play too, I've found that they work best when played in character (sacrificing your troops willy nilly, and taking dangerous risks with potential catastrophic results) they can also have entire units of assassins (well, gutter runners and night runners) and have a good set of rules for sneaky tricks and espionage....

I play both and I think you'll love whichever you end up choosing!