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Duke Georgal
08-08-2010, 18:10
Hey guys,

My Dark Elf army was based around a "monster" theme. It seems the 8th edition main rule book with percentage requirements has ended its legality.

Basically, this is the list:

Core:

Three units of Dark Riders

Special:

2 Cold One Chariots
1 Unit of Harpies
1 Unit of Cold One Knights

Rare:

1 Hydra

Characters:

Lord on Black Dragon
Beastmaster on Manticore

In larger games I would bring up to twelve CO Knights and add the unit of Manflayers to bring up to whatever points we were playing.

So... Is it possible to make a legal monster list at all with the new rules? We usually play at 2,250 points.

shakedown47
08-08-2010, 18:20
Where you see a monster "theme", I suspect many of your opponents would have replaced the word "monster" with "min/max cheese."

One of the basic ideas of the 8th army building rules I believe is to help reign in such over-the-top lists in favor of my flavorful, balanced and so-called "realistic" lists. The current rules don't really allow for that list to be replicated in a normal points game, which is unfortunate because it would be almost totally ineffective, and it would be interesting to see if you would stick with the theme in such a case.

theunwantedbeing
08-08-2010, 18:38
2250 eh?
Well thats 562pts to spend on getting a dragon lord (plenty)
Same for a manticore (again very easy to fit, infact you can just about fit 2!)
Same for Hydra's and 2 fit in with plenty left over.

Bunch of Harpies and Dark riders as core fit easily enough, then the rest on cold ones.

Whats the issue?

SamVimes
08-08-2010, 18:43
Where you see a monster "theme", I suspect many of your opponents would have replaced the word "monster" with "min/max cheese."

One of the basic ideas of the 8th army building rules I believe is to help reign in such over-the-top lists in favor of my flavorful, balanced and so-called "realistic" lists. The current rules don't really allow for that list to be replicated in a normal points game, which is unfortunate because it would be almost totally ineffective, and it would be interesting to see if you would stick with the theme in such a case.

And that's why he has a manticore and a single hydra :rolleyes: because that's min/max cheese

deggaroth
08-08-2010, 20:04
Harpies are not a special unit they're a core unit...

If I am interpreting things correctly, you are having issues, because of the min 25% for core units? Perhaps, you could use the opportunity to add a unit of 10 DR with shields to your list?

From a competitive stand point, I think you may struggle. Cavalry was a bit nerfed, meaning that an all cavalry DE list may have issues. As a result of this, I think adding a 2nd Hydra, would not be all that cheesey for this particular list.

Duke Georgal
08-08-2010, 20:11
Where you see a monster "theme", I suspect many of your opponents would have replaced the word "monster" with "min/max cheese."

No, not at all. In a Dark Elf army, this is by no means the min/max power build out there. I would certainly not bring Cold Ones Knights, Harpies, or Chariots if this was a power/cheese build. Dark Elves are the only army book that lets you field a good solid monster army, and that is what I collected.

The army was always fun to play, but no magic and limited shooting made it very weak, and the complete lack of support troops for the flying nasties was always a problem. Interestingly, it was pretty effective against the nastier Daemon builds, but any solid Empire or Dwarf army would shred it.

I have 9 (maybe more) other fantasy armies if I want to play something different.


2250 eh?
Well thats 562pts to spend on getting a dragon lord (plenty)
Same for a manticore (again very easy to fit, infact you can just about fit 2!)
Same for Hydra's and 2 fit in with plenty left over.

Bunch of Harpies and Dark riders as core fit easily enough, then the rest on cold ones.

Whats the issue?

In the 8th edition big rule book percentage requirements and limitations have been added. I am pretty sure my character allowance has been very much exceeded and I am no where near what I need for core.

How can a monster Dark Elf army be built now?

Tae
08-08-2010, 20:38
Easily.

In 2,250 you can still get the following:

Lord on Dragon, Heartseeker, Pendant, Enchanted Shield

Master on Manticore, Soul render, Dragonhelm, Dawn stone

Master BSB on Cold One, Deathpiercer, Armour of Darkness

2 x 6 Dark Riders with RxBs Musician, Banner

2 x 5 Dark Riders with RxBs Musician, Banner

5 x Harpies

5 x Harpies

9 x Cold Ones, Command, Banner of Hag Graef

1 x Hydra

And that's only spending 5 minutes on army builder. It's really not that hard to make a monster list in 8th Ed.

theunwantedbeing
08-08-2010, 20:46
In the 8th edition big rule book percentage requirements and limitations have been added. I am pretty sure my character allowance has been very much exceeded and I am no where near what I need for core.

How can a monster Dark Elf army be built now?

A lord on dragon fits the 25% Lord allwance of 2250 easily enough
A hero on manticore easily fits the 25% hero allowance
Your Special stuff doesn't go beyond 50% at all
Your rare is barely 10% so that's all good.

You just need to fullfill the minimum core allowance, which at 2250 means spending 563pts.
eg.
8 dark riders with crossbows & a musician
8 dark riders with crossbows & a musician
8 dark riders with crossbows, musician & standard

Seems like an easy fix to me.

Duke Georgal
09-08-2010, 02:14
A lord on dragon fits the 25% Lord allwance of 2250 easily enough
A hero on manticore easily fits the 25% hero allowance
Your Special stuff doesn't go beyond 50% at all
Your rare is barely 10% so that's all good.

You just need to fullfill the minimum core allowance, which at 2250 means spending 563pts.
eg.
8 dark riders with crossbows & a musician
8 dark riders with crossbows & a musician
8 dark riders with crossbows, musician & standard

Seems like an easy fix to me.


So, if I am reading this correctly, I just need to add six more Dark Riders to be legal again? That would be OK, and keep the idea of the army intact.

Paraelix
09-08-2010, 02:17
Looks like Duke. Keep in mind the Banners on units are essential to not automatically losing certain missions :)