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Inach
08-08-2010, 21:11
Hey all,

I play Daemons of Chaos, and love them. Several cool strategies and they won me about 50 - 60% of the games. The new models are absolutly fantastic! The only downside for this army.. is their powerlevel. I do not want to make them stronger (hance they are good enough!) but a little bit more trustfull.

-The (almost) autolose 1/3 chance to get the non-prefered wave. If fighting horde armies and you have 2 soulgrinders.. I would like to have them both in my first wave. 1/3 chance they turn in very late in the game.
Make it 1/6 chance, Daemons player would still have the idea it could go wrong.. but not that often.

-The 2d6 scatter roll... for an DS army, it could break your game. I try to scatter on a spot with 7 inches free to all sides. In a 2k points battle, there is simple not enough room for that.. and you also can have bad luck.. reaall bad luck. I would say, a 1d6 (or 1d8 or 1d10) would be better.

-The anti tank part. while I do play 2 heralds of tzeentch with bolt and MoS, it's not enough with the current Mech. Crack a vehicle with Fiends (imo the best unit in the book), works (save armor 14 around) pretty will, however, the stuff that gets out rapid fire the fiends to death. Since daemons are an elite army, and the elite section contains about the best units from the book, I hate losing them for cracking up a Rhino.

-The last part, the seekers of slaanesh. I love the (new) models! Personally I converted them from the goblin spider riders, tried them several times.. but they just aint worth it. So why buying them if I wont field them? (same goes for other units).

Sooo, in other words, I love the army, it works very well. However, I would like to see some tweaks (it's the first daemon 40k dex, so GW need to learn a bit). I would like to see a PDF for an update. Some other armies (crons!) have higher priority.

Cheers!

TheShadowCow
08-08-2010, 21:21
Daemons could use a fair bit of love in the Codex department (bulk out the Undivided options, something new and exciting for each God-specific faction and a few 'quality of life' tweaks on army functionality, unit/upgrade cost and available options), but their need pales in comparison to Necrons, Dark Eldar, Tau and Inquisition (probably in descending order of dire need).

My Tzeentch Legion can afford to wait a couple of years for the benefit of the lists that really need the love.



Expect to see more of this "second wave" strategy in the future though. I suspect Imperial Guard will receive a few new kits sometime soon-ish for their options which don't have models, and the same for the Tyranids (namely the Harpy, Tervigon, Tyrannofex, Tyranid Prime, Bonesword limbs etc).

CrownAxe
08-08-2010, 21:22
They just won an Ard Boys

Chem-Dog
08-08-2010, 21:39
-The (almost) autolose 1/3 chance to get the non-prefered wave.


Sollution:- Halve the points value of the battle you're fighting, build a list to that value and then double it. Now each wave is your preferred wave.
This doesn't have to be exact, A DP in one half and a GD in the other is fine, the key is not to be left waiting for any particular element.


-The 2d6 scatter roll...

Sollution:- Deploy the first wave sensibly at least 14" from a table edge, make use of the unit's ability to run on the turn it shows up and buy a few Icons so the latter waves are spot on target. My only complaint is the inability of Greater Daemons to take an Icon (or automatically count as one).


-The anti tank part.

Sollution:- Monsterous Creatures. You can get a fair few in there, most can move at quite a pace. Failing that, invest in some Screamers.
Personally, (as a Slaanesh Monogod player) I think Fiends are the second best in the Codex second only to the Flamers.


-The last part, the seekers of slaanesh.

Seekers are handy in a couple of roles, considering the VAST distances they can cover, Excellent as a first wave unit with an Icon, making sure your late comers are up close to the action post haste and Great as a late coming unit as there's not usually a great deal of places they can't get.
Either way, you can't moan because they've bought out models for an army that you're not going to use :p

ICEMANQ
08-08-2010, 21:49
Daemon's could do with a new codex, sure. I feel only scattering 1d6 might be a bit powerful, but cool. Played Blood Angels last night and only scattering 1d6 is both cool (as it encourages more to deep strike) and effective. Does anyone know if the plastic prince wings are able to be removed/put on the model without magnets? IS there a tight fit in other words.

noobzor
08-08-2010, 21:59
I feel that there are many codexes that need an update before Daemons (DE, necrons, inquisition for sure)

Stouty
08-08-2010, 23:25
As much as I love demons (which is quite a bit - I've always admired them since the Storm of Chaos list with all those lovely conversions), and as much as there is potential to expand their options using forgeworld stuff like they did with IG, there are other armies much more desperately in need of helping. DoC have always been, first and foremost, the converters army, and it's not so bad if they stay that way.

With that said there are some obvious issues that should be addressed and could probably be dealt with in a short errata file, namely deep striking and first/second wave issues. Just removing that silly wave rule would allow demon players a great deal more flexibility (Chem-dog said that they should just build symmetrical armies but who else has to put up with such an arduous restriction). Reducing scatter distance to 1d6 would probably move them up the tier list to the level of vanilla space marines, which while in itself is fine means that it is something that GW would never do. Personally I'm not a fan of the "everyone must always deep strike" thing in principle, it's not like every demon will insist on turning up fashionably late and it would make them a lot less of a one trick pony which would be more interesting for me to play against.

Still maybe GW will give them a once over after Dark Eldar, Black Templars, Necrons, Dark Angels, Orks, Salamanders, Eldar, Mentor Legion, Chaos Space Marines, Rainbow Warriors and the 6th edition Space Marine codex.

CaptainOtter
08-08-2010, 23:31
Daemons arn't a perfect list, and you can tell this is their first full codex. Still, other armies have a much greater need for new books. Dark Eldar and Necrons havn't had a book since 3rd, the inquisition is kind of a mess and Tau could use a bit of streamlining.

Scribe of Khorne
09-08-2010, 00:08
They just won an Ard Boys

I am curious what list was used. I will play mine Mono-Khorne when I get my new crushers (counting down the days!) but I am curious what did well at that points limit.

Ask and google shall deliver?

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-198982.html

LonelyPath
09-08-2010, 00:38
Daemons arn't a perfect list, and you can tell this is their first full codex. Still, other armies have a much greater need for new books. Dark Eldar and Necrons havn't had a book since 3rd, the inquisition is kind of a mess and Tau could use a bit of streamlining.

Better list Dark Angels to before my fellow DA players that seem to get disgruntled at their lack of mention raise their whiny voices, lol.

Back on topic though. Daemons aren't perfect, but they are very playable and can be downright nasty in the right hands. Like some other armies (DH immediately comes to mind), they have a learning curve that can take some time to adapt your play style to. A new codex would be nice in time, but it's not that important right now.

1d6 scatter? Far ro poserful, but I'd like to see Daemon Icons maybe bestow the ability to also reroll scatter for the unit that possesses in as they DS.

If you have 2 Soul Grinders, put 1 in each wave, definately get one on the table then, I field 2 in such a fashion whenever I (rarely) field my Daemons. I must get around to adding them to my signature at some point...

Dr Morbius
09-08-2010, 00:41
Personally I would be totally satiesfied until the time comes around for the next daemon codex if they errata the Deep Strike to 1d6 and remove the silly wave thing. It is these two that regularly get to my nerves while playing.

CaptainOtter
09-08-2010, 00:49
Eh, the 2d6 scatter doesnt seem too "intense". As long as you dont deploy within 12 inches of an enemy unit or the table edge, you're safe. You should be more worried about scattering too far away from the enemy rather than too close.

Leez
09-08-2010, 02:50
Sollution:- Halve the points value of the battle you're fighting, build a list to that value and then double it. Now each wave is your preferred wave.
This doesn't have to be exact, A DP in one half and a GD in the other is fine, the key is not to be left waiting for any particular element.

I knew a person once that went that route, he swore by it. Hard to argue for or against it though. Most players I've ever spoken with that only dable in a CD army is they have no plan if wave 2 comes first other then to wing it and assume they'll lose.


Sollution:- Deploy the first wave sensibly at least 14" from a table edge, make use of the unit's ability to run on the turn it shows up and buy a few Icons so the latter waves are spot on target. My only complaint is the inability of Greater Daemons to take an Icon (or automatically count as one).

Sensibly and "at least 14 inches" from a table edge, enemy unit, or impassible terrain are not inherintly synonymous.

Sollution:- Monsterous Creatures. You can get a fair few in there, most can move at quite a pace. Failing that, invest in some Screamers.
Personally, (as a Slaanesh Monogod player) I think Fiends are the second best in the Codex second only to the Flamers.

Bolt, bolt, bolt. Need not be MC. Not such useful advise for a non-tzeentch player though.


Seekers are handy in a couple of roles, considering the VAST distances they can cover, Excellent as a first wave unit with an Icon, making sure your late comers are up close to the action post haste and Great as a late coming unit as there's not usually a great deal of places they can't get.
Either way, you can't moan because they've bought out models for an army that you're not going to use :p

The only thing I don't like about the codex is the lack of a Named KoS, never mind it's power or usefulness. Just feels so half-donkeyed or out right forgetful that we don't have one.

As to needing a new codex, I disagree. Not because there are more urgent ones, but because it's just too soon. I have the strong suspision the "meta" will mello if not change with the release of Dark Eldar, Necrons, and Tau never mind the order they come out.

cybercaine
09-08-2010, 07:16
DoC is a fairly powerful codex. They have a lot of really aggressively cost models like horrors, flamers, plaguebearers, and bloodcrushers. To add greater stability to how they enter play would be to make these units even more aggressive and undercost. As it is, they have ways to avoid scatter post-turn one.

As far as anti-vehicle, as was said earlier bolt, and MC's. . . not to mention flamers or rending bloodcrushers.

CrownAxe
09-08-2010, 08:48
I am curious what list was used. I will play mine Mono-Khorne when I get my new crushers (counting down the days!) but I am curious what did well at that points limit.

Ask and google shall deliver?

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-198982.html

That's the list I was referring to

The Furious Abyss
09-08-2010, 09:20
I don't think they need a new dex just yet, seeing as how they are still somewhat new compared to dexes such as Dark Eldar and Necrons.

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-08-2010, 15:25
Eh, the 2d6 scatter doesnt seem too "intense". As long as you dont deploy within 12 inches of an enemy unit or the table edge, you're safe.

That's a pretty huge area of the table you have to avoid though. Even discounting enemy units that takes your standard 6'x4' table down to 4'x2' (or 24 square feet down to 8!).

And depending on who goes first and your opponents army etc. you could find it very difficult to find any safe/decent landing zones.

I do like the idea of the deep striking demons, I just don't think it works out that well on the tabletop and I expect that is something that will see a lot of work done to it when the next book arrive at some point.

the1stpip
09-08-2010, 16:47
The wave rule is to counter balance the all deep striking rule. Getting your nastiest combat units on your opponents doorstep is very powerful, and the wave rule is to encourage players to take balanced forces, rather than super powerful stuff, and then save scoring units for later.

Daemons are a good list. Not the best certainly, but still good and very characterful. There is little wrong with their book.

Soupcat
09-08-2010, 18:26
As much as I would love an alteration to the various deep strike deployments, I don't think its a simple as an errata, mainly because from what I understand our units costs are discounted to offset the whole, your army half might not come in or your unit can go poof. Sort of the same reason why CSM allying is not as simple as would think.

gwarsh41
09-08-2010, 18:37
I think a reason many of the daemon players are urging for a new dex is the newer books coming out, are getting all these fun things that seem well, demonic. How is it that tzeentch has no psychic defence? it is no wonder people use the SW codex for chaos marines all the time, the SW book screams KHORNE with all of its crazy CC attacks (saga of the warrior born, MotW) Blood angels have this crazy deepstrike ability, and nids get reserve in faster. Daemons are masters of the warp, should be pretty good at deepstriking by now.
I honestly love the waves, if an entire daemon army popped up at once, it would be waaaay too overpowered. That rule is one of the things keeping daemons balanced. Although I could do without the roll... but it keeps the army fun.

Very awesome to hear daemons took ard boyz! I thought guard won again. I would love to find battle reps from the finals... lets go google!

I really look forward to a new dex, I see other armies getting all sorts of stuff that makes daemons look like plush dolls and cant wait for us to get something better.

Megad00mer
09-08-2010, 19:09
I was in the process of starting a Chaos Space Marine army (I love Chaos) but as my gaming group already is inundated with Marine armies (SW, BA and Vanilla) and because of the 4th edition Codex, CSM's really are just another marine army (but with spikey bits), I think the Daemons are the way to go.

Now that I'm really looking at the book in depth, I gotta say that almost every unit in that Codex seems useful and fun to use, except Nurglings and Beasts of Nurgle. Just can't see a use for em. They're somewhat similar to my Tyranids in that it's a predominately CC oriented army with some big scary beasties but I think the overall playstyle will be different enough where I won't get bored.

There are a few things to be fixed, but I wouldn't say they need a new Codex like Necrons, Tau or even CSMs. They seem pretty competitive from what I can see.

TheLaughingGod
09-08-2010, 20:24
In short, no.

No way the NEW army gets a new codex before my theoretical Dark Kin. Not happening.

gwarsh41
09-08-2010, 20:38
Nurglings can be the scariest thing on the table in an epidemus list. Power weapons wounding on a 2 with 3 attacks each! (Once the tally gets going) They are CC monsters!

IcedAnimals
09-08-2010, 20:51
there were 3 different ard boyz this year (they did the finals at 3 locations so basically 3 different tournies) Daemons won one. Chaos marines won one. And Mech Guard won one. Space wolves came in like 2nd place at all 3. There were a ton of tyranid players in the finals but none of them made top 3. (which is impressive considering how long the codex has been out and people are still figuring out the codex)

Daemons codex does need some work. There are just too many almost useless units. but they can wait for a while. proper strategy negates most of our issues. Also I am against "make both waves the exact same" In theory it works. On the game it doesn't and getting a second wave of nothing but troops has actually won games for me.

Megad00mer
09-08-2010, 21:26
Nurglings can be the scariest thing on the table in an epidemus list. Power weapons wounding on a 2 with 3 attacks each! (Once the tally gets going) They are CC monsters!

Hmmm...:evilgrin:

You have a very good point there.

Mini77
09-08-2010, 23:02
I play Daemons of Chaos, and love them. Several cool strategies and they won me about 50 - 60% of the games.

I'm not personally familiar with the Daemon codex but if you're winning that many games it suggests the codex is adequate for use.

jsullivanlaw
10-08-2010, 20:29
The wave thing should just be removed, its a terrible mechanic that really kinda hamstrings the codex. Daemons should have more options for deployment. I used to play daemons and they can be really good against certain armies. Never did beat mech eldar though...

gwarsh41
10-08-2010, 20:49
Hmmm...:evilgrin:

You have a very good point there.

I find beasts, furies, flesh hounds, and to an extent, daemonettes to be the worst things in the book.
Beasts are PBs with +1w and D6 attacks.

Furies are just bad, way to expensive for not doing anything well.

Flesh hounds, Cool concept, fast psyker killers, but there are a lot more bullets to eat through the weak ++5 they have. They also are pretty poor in combat for a daemon. (Mephiston would cry so hard if he fought them. They have a ++2 vs force weapons) So maybe they are specifically to counter GK?

Nettes, I think they are poor because seekers are so much better for 3 more points.

Imagine epidemus and blight drones (blight drones have a large blast ap3 shot)

DuskRaider
10-08-2010, 21:14
Actually, splitting the army evenly isn't always that difficult. I suppose it depends on what your list consists of. There are some things you want on the board ASAP (such as Epidemius or units with Icons) and some that don't matter when they arrive. I usually play a Nurgle - Khorne mixed force, and tend to attempt to throw down my Great Unclean One, Daemon Princes, and at least one unit of Plaguebearers with an Icon down on Turn One, to ensure the Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, and Bloodthirster hit the ground right.

Anti-Tank is an issue with Daemons. The army isn't really made to deal well with AV, but Daemonzilla lists and units with Rending can help. Obviously, Tzeentch has powers that can dent armor. Other than that, pray to the fickle gods.

As far as worrying about scattering, well... I just don't. When I play my Death Guard, I'm usually pretty conservative and play defense, but when my Daemons come out I go balls to the wall. I'll deep strike my Daemon Princes or whatnot in the middle of my enemy's army, why not? Nurgle Daemon Princes can leave a vast hole in an enemy's line just by dropping down if you arm them right (Aura of Decay, Breath of Chaos). Likewise, I'll also drop my Soul Grinders right in from of my enemy's nastiest tanks. I'll use that Tongue to take that sucker down or I'll get blown up, it's better than dropping too far away and being a waste of points or just being picked off anyhow. You've got to be risky with Daemons, that's the whole theme with the army IMHO.

No opinions of Seekers, I don't use any Slaanesh or Tzeentch units at all.

So do Chaos Daemons need a new codex? Not in particular. Would it be nice to have one? Of course. The biggest problem we have is armor, but if you place well and take those big risks, you can neutralize it quickly.

Starchild
10-08-2010, 22:53
Daemons could use a fair bit of love in the Codex department (bulk out the Undivided options [...]I really like that idea. They make the Warp sound like it's all about the Big 4, when there's supposed to be countless other lesser deities. There definitely needs to be more generic daemons.

I'm also having a hard time with the idea of the traditional rivals (Khorne vs. Slaanesh and Nurgle vs. Tzeentch) to be having daemons on the battlefield actually *working* together. It doesn't sound right in the background (using Realm of Chaos as the measuring stick here), and it certainly doesn't look very good on the tabletop either... too many conflicting themes imho. But that's a topic for another thread. :o

zendral
10-08-2010, 23:41
I run a Tzeentch/Slaanesh daemon army. Love it. It requires precision, but the army is fast and allows me to control the table very quickly. No nurgle needed to absorb damage. I use a heavy horror unit to screen my slaanesh along with a nearby fateweaver I almost always only lose one model to a large volley of bolter shots or whatnot. Meanwhile the seekers, fiends, and soulgrinder are placed in key areas to strike from afar.

Scribe of Khorne
11-08-2010, 00:44
I'm also having a hard time with the idea of the traditional rivals (Khorne vs. Slaanesh and Nurgle vs. Tzeentch) to be having daemons on the battlefield actually *working* together. It doesn't sound right in the background (using Realm of Chaos as the measuring stick here), and it certainly doesn't look very good on the tabletop either... too many conflicting themes imho. But that's a topic for another thread. :o

This is what I totally dont understand. I read the latest white dwarf, and some of the fluff in there makes my khorne dedicated heart weep! Skulltaker with an oath sworn unit of Daemonettes? Plaguebearers following a Tzeentch prince? Fiends are now so appealing that even a favoured Herald of Khorne (Skulltaker) is happy to have them around? That whole page just make me go :wtf:

Did I miss something here? Its just too much for my old heart to take. :p

CushionRide
11-08-2010, 03:48
the only thing that chaos demons needs is a way to make theme armies compedative.

for example. i made a slaneesh daemonette army, it sucked. there wasnt any thing in a single chaos god to be powerfull enough to contend in a real battle. i was cut down before i could get into any sort of fight. im not impressed by the soul grinder, my deamon prince was the only thing that did any sort of damage to anything.

i guess i just dont like the fact that it seems like you have to mix your deamons in order to make a truely effective army, especially when in the storyline the deamon gods never really saw eye to eye.

Scribe of Khorne
11-08-2010, 16:43
i guess i just dont like the fact that it seems like you have to mix your deamons in order to make a truely effective army, especially when in the storyline the deamon gods never really saw eye to eye.

Thats what I am confused about. Was there a shift when the daemon books got released that says that the Chaos gods now treat everything as just a game, they dont REALLY hate eachother? The previously mentioned daemonnetes sworn to follow Skulltaker for example, in previous versions of the fluff, would be like Slaanesh swearing allegiance to Khorne as the daemons are simply manifestations of the Gods. It makes no sense...

DuskRaider
11-08-2010, 16:57
GW has forsaken the fluff in favor of the WAAC player, it seems...

Ravenous
11-08-2010, 16:58
I am curious what list was used. I will play mine Mono-Khorne when I get my new crushers (counting down the days!) but I am curious what did well at that points limit.

Ask and google shall deliver?

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-198982.html

That doesnt even add up to 2500. There's no way that won, you'd have to play against nothing but monkeys.


GW has forsaken the fluff in favor of the WAAC player, it seems...

No they balance it out, its on you to make your list fluffy or not, and hell its representation of a small area of the battle field, whose to say 24 bloodcrushers didnt steamroll some marines? Anything can be justified.

Its subjective. Play a campaign if you want fluff.

Zweischneid
11-08-2010, 17:00
Thats what I am confused about. Was there a shift when the daemon books got released that says that the Chaos gods now treat everything as just a game, they dont REALLY hate eachother? The previously mentioned daemonnetes sworn to follow Skulltaker for example, in previous versions of the fluff, would be like Slaanesh swearing allegiance to Khorne as the daemons are simply manifestations of the Gods. It makes no sense...

Dunno. I think you're reading the antagonism among the Chaos Gods abit too harshly. Sure they bicker, fight and backstab, and anyone of their servants is a pawn in their endless struggle. The Great Game goes on and on because Chaos wouldn't be Chaos with the constant shift of alliances and intriques.

That said, at least as far back as 2nd Edition, the Great Game meant ad-hoc teamings as well as enmity. Khorne would side with Slannesh or Tzeentch (temporarily) if it serves to spite Nurgle. And vice versa. And against the outsiders, they've always did a "me against my brother, my brother and I against our cousin, me, my brother and our cousin against the rest" kinda attitude (though it doesn't hurt having the brother shot in the process just in case).

They all hate each other, true. But they kinda hate everyone anyways and it makes them gall even more in eternal hatred if they have to side with one hated rival to spite another hated rival. And on top of that, Khorne in particular is also the God of Hate. It's kinda his job to hate just everyone and everything on principle.

That's how I remember it at least. A final, fixed and unchanging divide of enmity between .. say .. Khorne and Tzeentch is kinda the anti-thesis of the Great Game. The whole point is that you'll never know who sides with whom and for how long or for what reasons.

Even the old animosity rules reflected that. Servants of different Gods didn't go at their throats always... just occasionally when things went awry.

Scribe of Khorne
11-08-2010, 17:16
Yeah I suppose from that angle it makes sense Zweischneid, for some reason I was always under the impression that a Khorne/Slaanesh alliance was about as unlikely as a Khorne/Eldar army.

Makes me rethink my army design though...

mrln68
11-08-2010, 17:24
That doesnt even add up to 2500. There's no way that won, you'd have to play against nothing but monkeys.

http://www.baldandscreaming.com/news/results-from-2010-ard-boyz-finals/

GW hasn't posted the results - but there is another example of that list winning.

DuskRaider
11-08-2010, 17:24
No they balance it out, its on you to make your list fluffy or not, and hell its representation of a small area of the battle field, whose to say 24 bloodcrushers didnt steamroll some marines? Anything can be justified.

Its subjective. Play a campaign if you want fluff.

Well, it doesn't help GW kind of gimps mono-lists. I shouldn't have to play a campaign if I want fluff, I should be able to play the game itself, bring a theme, have fun, and still be competitive. That WAS what the game was designed for, it just seems they've lost their sight along the way. At least in my opinion...

Vedar
11-08-2010, 22:38
Of course the flip side to this is GW could have forced mono list with restrictions that would have made people unhappy as well. That or made a seperate codex for each chaos god which would take them about 5 years.

The problem with making a two mirror wave list is that you can't get enough punch in a wave if you do that and you end up fighting uphill all game. I risk it myself. If I roll a 3+ it is game on. If I roll a 1-2 then I yell "CRAP!" and I normally have to deploy in saftey far away. Then I move in to support the other wave when they come in. I've won a handful of 1-2 roll games. Most of the time it is pretty rough though.

IcedAnimals
12-08-2010, 02:48
Well, it doesn't help GW kind of gimps mono-lists. I shouldn't have to play a campaign if I want fluff, I should be able to play the game itself, bring a theme, have fun, and still be competitive. That WAS what the game was designed for, it just seems they've lost their sight along the way. At least in my opinion...

So put more effort into your theme. If slaanesh suddenly got feel no pain on a model who loved the feel of pain so it did nothing more than stir him on what would be the difference between this new model and a plaguebearer?

I play a Slaanesh and Nurgle list. However everything I field has had effort put into it to make it as slaanesh as possible so that when I put it on the table I am fielding just a slaanesh army. I have taken a theme and rolled with it. There are a few parts of slaanesh for example that can actually fit as nurgle. Gluttony and Indolency both scream nurgle (eat a lot of then lay there and do nothing) And slaanesh also has a garden of vainglory. (which i use my dryads for)

Slaanesh is also obsessed with perfection. Such as perfection of ones skills in battle. Also cross over with Khorne. And these two despise each other. What im trying to get at is that if you put a little effort into your chaos army you can do anything you want. From explaining why these forces are working together. To converting and making your army one cohesive force under one god even if you are using the rules from another unit in the codex.

My green daemon using that red ones stat line is no different than a green marine using that red ones stats.

DuskRaider
12-08-2010, 03:35
I won't do count-as in my armies. I'm considering doing a count-as army of Night Lords using BA, but I won't do it with certain units. Believe me, I do well with my mono-lists, it's just I wish there were perks to playing a mono-god army like there used to be.

jsullivanlaw
17-08-2010, 20:45
Personally I would be totally satiesfied until the time comes around for the next daemon codex if they errata the Deep Strike to 1d6 and remove the silly wave thing. It is these two that regularly get to my nerves while playing.

Yeah, i can't stand it anymore and shelved my daemon army about 6 months ago. I could never get my head around why daemons can mishap but the marines and nids in their pods falling from SPACE can't mishap. Daemons are just jumping out of a little portal. They should have drop pod rules if they are forced to deepstrike. The whole mechanic is kinda disappointing really.

gwarsh41
17-08-2010, 21:42
I would loooove 1D6 deepstrike, which might need to reduce the cost of icons as now they are not as useful. I would also like to do without the roll. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I am just not in the mood.