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fastcarfreak
09-08-2010, 00:12
I've taken a crack at building my own HPA, to no avail... It looked like crap. Anyway, I was wondering since I am really bad at modeling and since there is no model for the HPA as of yet, would GW have a problem with using their Hydra model as a HPA in the Skaven army during tournament play? I obviously plan to actually buy a HPA when/if it gets released, but need some advice meanwhile.

Paraelix
09-08-2010, 00:19
Tournament play has little or nothing to do with GW. You would have to contact the tournament organisers. For friendly play I'm sure most people would be ok with it.

Kevlar
09-08-2010, 00:23
Necromunda caller on chariot base for us non modelers. 35 us dollars.

Paraelix
09-08-2010, 00:28
The Thing in the Woods would also work if it is big enough... Never actually seen it irl.

mrtn
09-08-2010, 10:11
There's rumours that they'll release a plastic abomination soon, so just keep your cool a few months, unless you already own the hydra.

Bassik
09-08-2010, 11:02
Well... it is a very powerfull creature, when on the receiving end I would like to see at least some effort went into the model. Popping down a hydra may raise some eyebrows, and you'll forever be "that kind" of player.

TeddyC
09-08-2010, 11:06
The Thing in the Woods would also work if it is big enough... Never actually seen it irl.

ive got one in front of me here. its on a 50mm, big monster base.

is HPA chariot base? would probably stretch to a chariot base, especially if there were other things on there like a few other rats/packmaster type model


Well... it is a very powerfull creature, when on the receiving end I would like to see at least some effort went into the model. Popping down a hydra may raise some eyebrows, and you'll forever be "that kind" of player.


+1, Personally i dont think i could do it as a long term thing. When I see something like that I just think 'this guy has put no effort in'.

I think a conversion, even if not amazingly done, is better than proxy in most instances.

Depends on your gaming group though, Im just a snob

Sparowl
09-08-2010, 11:13
Well... it is a very powerfull creature, when on the receiving end I would like to see at least some effort went into the model. Popping down a hydra may raise some eyebrows, and you'll forever be "that kind" of player.

I'd like to agree with this statement.

Proxying for a unit or a model you don't have just to try a list is probably fine once in awhile. We switch units out to try different lists all the time, no big deal.

If you plan on using it full time, then you should probably put the effort into converting it, even if its not great. After a game or two, I'd expect you to stop using the hydra, especially if you're going to use such an incredibly powerful monster like the HPA.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
09-08-2010, 11:29
The game is an excuse to parade your models around. If you haven't got the models, there really is no reason to play the game :)

I have nothing against the odd proxy, and have played several games against armies of empty bases/grey horde, but if there is no progress, and you aren't committing yourself to the game in the long run, then you wouldn't be my first choice to battle.

Using a hydra for a HPA is fine for a couple of games, but a HPA isn't a hydra, and a hydra is a sleek killing machine and hardly ratty in any way, so its really spoiling the mood.

Max_Killfactor
09-08-2010, 12:12
It's fine for a short term solution, as long as you get the HPA model whenever it comes out.

Sandals
09-08-2010, 12:21
i'd be fine with the hydra, as long as it's not just borrowed from a Dark Elf army. if it was painted brown and made to fit in with the skaven force you have, even if it's not converted, i'd be fine with that.

i think it's the idea of just using a hydra as is with no effort to match the army that has people concerned here. a little effort goes a long way when modelling :)

CauCaSus
09-08-2010, 13:45
Put some rat ogre heads on it, flock it a bit and paint it brown and I don't see a problem at all.

Or wait to see if the second wave of skaven has an HPA (it probably will)

GodlessM
09-08-2010, 15:46
Put some rat ogre heads on it, flock it a bit and paint it brown and I don't see a problem at all.


This is what they did for the Chimerat is WD back in 2005.

Gekiganger
09-08-2010, 16:16
Personally I see no problem with using a Hydra and think people complaining about it are childish. It's not only better than a poor conversion but perfectly fluffy, Moulder capture beasts in all their forms from Troll Country etc, the old book even had rules for such things like the Gigantic spiders and wyverns / manticores. Fitting the beasts into an army using the most fitting ruleset and then being told 'you're that kind of player' is a tad insulting, though I'll admit it's not the reasoning stated in the first post.

TeddyC
09-08-2010, 16:57
Personally I see no problem with using a Hydra and think people complaining about it are childish. It's not only better than a poor conversion but perfectly fluffy, Moulder capture beasts in all their forms from Troll Country etc, the old book even had rules for such things like the Gigantic spiders and wyverns / manticores. Fitting the beasts into an army using the most fitting ruleset and then being told 'you're that kind of player' is a tad insulting, though I'll admit it's not the reasoning stated in the first post.

But then its not a HPA is it? its creature that clan moulder have captured and shouldnt be subject to the HPA rules... unless Moulder have mutated it... in which case it should be a conversion.

Why resort to insulting people and calling them childish? No one has said they wouldnt play that army, people have just said they prefer an army that has had the effort put in.

How do you ever become better at something without practising.... 'Oh my first effort to covert/paint this model isnt very good, oh well grey horde/proxy for the rest of my gaming days then....'

(which isnt what the OP was saying im sure, however its to illustrate my point)

chilledenuff
09-08-2010, 17:05
But then its not a HPA is it? its creature that clan moulder have captured and shouldnt be subject to the HPA rules... unless Moulder have mutated it... in which case it should be a conversion.


What if the mutation is purely to swap the brain with that of a rat ogre? neat stitching job around the skull and you would never know? Or they did a blood transfusion, swapping all the blood for warpstone addled acid. Or it's a rat they've mutated to look like a hydra (to sneakily confuse dark elves) Not all mutations are visible

Gekiganger
09-08-2010, 17:38
But then its not a HPA is it? its creature that clan moulder have captured and shouldnt be subject to the HPA rules... unless Moulder have mutated it... in which case it should be a conversion.

Why resort to insulting people and calling them childish? No one has said they wouldnt play that army, people have just said they prefer an army that has had the effort put in.

How do you ever become better at something without practising.... 'Oh my first effort to covert/paint this model isnt very good, oh well grey horde/proxy for the rest of my gaming days then....'

(which isnt what the OP was saying im sure, however its to illustrate my point)

I think it's about as insulting as calling someone 'that guy'. Using a giant hand or other gribbly as a giant rat 'isn't a giant rat', but it's a damn sight better than the tiny plastic rats you get now, I certainly wouldn't pick fault at it. Likewise, the many conversions for a HPA won't be a HPA unless they feature a worm-like tail or some such feature relating to a blind wyrm - the necromunda caller certainly isn't a HPA, but it's still a damn fine model for one.
Proxies are fine provided they're painted / modeled to fit with the army and not just used out of laziness, I don't believe laziness was the original posters motivation.

As for the last point on improving converting skills, the original poster said their conversion was poor and wanted to know if people would be fine with him using a Hydra. I answered his question, telling him 'lolno, go spend more money otherwise I'll call you 'that guy' ', you have to go practice until you can convert one to a satisfying standard, isn't really helpful.

TeddyC
09-08-2010, 18:24
Why is being 'that guy' insulting... its only like being 'that guy' who doesnt make the effort to paint an army.

Its only insulting if you make it. Once again, no one has said there is a right and wrong way. He asked what we thought, and we told him.... which at the moment seems to favour 'make your own model'.

But no, your opinion is right. I give up, obviously there isa correct answer when the OP asked opinions on the subject

Damocles8
09-08-2010, 20:49
well my buddy was gonna take a rat to a taxidermist.......

Sandals
09-08-2010, 21:12
well my buddy was gonna take a rat to a taxidermist.......

:) made me chuckle, that did...

Kevlar
09-08-2010, 22:07
well my buddy was gonna take a rat to a taxidermist.......

Actually that is a great idea, just go to the pet store and get some feeder mice. Like a dollar for a half dozen. Cut off their heads and glue them to the hydra! As they rot the appearance will improve! The smell might not be too good though. Might want to use some thick spray on varnish.

Tymell
09-08-2010, 22:16
If you convert it plenty then it sounds fine, as I could imagine Clan Moulder capturing such a beast and warping it.

If it's unchanged however, you're going to run into problems: Hell Pit Abominations are widely considered to be over-powered/under-costed, and to many you will look like you're just using a quick way to get something cheesy (note: Not saying you are, just how it could look).

Zoolander
09-08-2010, 22:37
Well... it is a very powerfull creature, when on the receiving end I would like to see at least some effort went into the model. Popping down a hydra may raise some eyebrows, and you'll forever be "that kind" of player.

I hardly see how the power or effectiveness of the model in game has anything to do with how the model looks.

Kevlar
09-08-2010, 22:43
I hardly see how the power or effectiveness of the model in game has anything to do with how the model looks.

You have never had someone try to field a star dragon using a plastic barney the purple dinosaur toy?

fastcarfreak
09-08-2010, 22:44
I have every intention of purchasing a couple HPAs from GW when they release a model. I don't feel like my army list should be limited by my ability/time to convert up a couple, when in a few months I'm gonna replace them with the aforementioned models coming up soon. The reason I want to have a stand in temporarily is because I'm going to try out the ard boyz at the end of the month. That and the fact that I have a 4000 point dark elves army that could benefit from a couple hydra's as well. I have absolutely no intention of using them in a friendly/casual game. My alternative is taking a couple rat ogres and a few clanrats and glue them temporarily to a chariot base...

Justicar_Freezer
09-08-2010, 23:01
I personally wouldn't have a problem with this. To me Warhammer and Warhammer 40k are just games. I'm not to big into the hobby side of things especially painting. There is no joy for me in painting little plastic army men. Though I do like to convert now and then especially characters.

My group we sort of encourage proxying in a few cases.
1.) If there isn't a model for a unit then go for it especially if you don't like or aren't good at converting.
2.) If you're trying out a new unit/army for a few games to see if you want to invest in it. Afterall GW armies are expensive and it's better to know if you'll be happy with your investment or not before plunging headlong into it.

Also as for the barney the purple dinosaur = stardragon I think that would be bloody well fantastic. Granted I'd laugh...alot during the game and make some jokes but it'd be a blast. Hell I remember one guy at a store I used to go to used Predator Action Figures for his Orc and Goblin Giants. It was ace.