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librisrouge
09-08-2010, 03:22
I'm switching up my characters a bit and looking for ideas about what people think about the army as a whole. This'll basically be the fundamental army I use for most fights.

2000 Pts. Empire

Lords - 476 pts (23.8%)
Wizard Lord 290 pts - Level 4, Staff of Sorcery, Holy Relic, and Lore of Fire
+5 to Dispel w/ +3 Dispel Dice means solid magic defense.

Arch-Lector 186 - Armor of Meteoric Iron, Great weapon, and Van Horstman's Speculum
+2 Dispell Dice w/ anti-character

Heroes - 363 pts (18.2%)
Battle Wizard 130 pts - Level 2 ,Rod of Power, and Lore of Light
Obligator Rod of Power

Captain of the Empire 108 pts - BSB, Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon, and Full Plate Armor
Is he a little soft and, if so, how do I improve him?

Warrior Priest 125 pts - Barded warhorse, Luckstone, Dragon Helm, Heavy Armor, and Shield
Hatred for the knights.

Core - 645/240 pts (32.3%/12.0%)
Halberdiers x36 200 pts - Full Command
BSB + Arch-Lector + Wizard Lord Here
Det. Handgunners x10 80 pts
Det. Handgunners x10 80 pts

Swordsmen x25 175 pts - Full Command
Wizard Here
Det. Handgunners x10 80 pts

Knightly Orders x10 270 pts - Full Command and Great Weapons
Priest Here

Special - 275 pts (13.8%)
Great Cannon x2

Mortar
Fire Support

71 Remaining Points! I'm thinking that somebody needs the Ironcurse Charm and I need to make the BSB tougher IMO.

Any suggestions?

zanzibar
09-08-2010, 04:29
I Like you lords choices, personally though im a fan of the war altar with archlectors.
For the BSB how about giving him the dragonhelm for a +1 to his sav? 10 pts is ok for this. Much better to mount him on a barded warhorse instead, 14pts and he has a 2+save, plus an extra horse attack.
U need at least 35 halbediers, t3 with a 6+save mean squishy for anything str4. preferably 40 perhaps. you could get away instead with 35 swordsmen, who are a little harder to kill.
Do you need the standard of arcane warding with all of your standard magical defence? drop it and spend the points elsewhere (warhorse for bsb for eg.)

i would rethink your list a bit, consider taking a unit of fast cav (pistoliers with muso is really cheap at 97pts)
Otherwise, ok list.

librisrouge
09-08-2010, 06:33
Good call on the Standard of Arcane Warding. It was kinda a hold off from before I decided that Arch-Lectors were nuts in the new edition. I guess that frees up some points.

EDIT:
* I didn't realize until I busted out the Armybook that the BSB can have an Enchanted Shield (SCORE!!)
* The Ironcurse Icon will help the halberdiers survive incoming fire.
* The War Priest is tough enough now to chump block challenges.
* Additional halberdiers means that I can stay in combat longer with Stubborn.

Caboose123
09-08-2010, 15:15
In my continuing attempts to make all Empire armies clones of mine... :D


I'm switching up my characters a bit and looking for ideas about what people think about the army as a whole. This'll basically be the fundamental army I use for most fights.

My initial impressions were good. It looks like a well thought out, and oft play tested list.

2000 Pts. Empire

Lords - 476 pts (23.8%)
Wizard Lord 290 pts - Level 4, Staff of Sorcery, Holy Relic, and Lore of Fire
+5 to Dispel w/ +3 Dispel Dice means solid magic defense.

Again, maybe overkill in the magic defense, you already have an extra 3 dispel dice and +4 to dispel, if you really think you need another +1 keep him as he is. Otherwise your options for replacements include: a Luckstone could keep him from miscasting, Power Stones are useful for when you roll 2-4 power dice (after all, you have quite a few points put into your magic phase), and finally a humble Channelling staff.

Arch-Lector 186 - Armor of Meteoric Iron, Great weapon, and Van Horstman's Speculum
+2 Dispell Dice w/ anti-character

Heroes - 363 pts (18.2%)
Battle Wizard 130 pts - Level 2 ,Rod of Power, and Lore of Light
Obligator Rod of Power

I find in 8th the value of secondary wizards like this guy is less, as you have to divide your 2d6 dice between them. You could make this guy a Lv1 mage, just to support your Lv.4 (If you do, you can always choose a lore with a good signature spell, like Lore of Metal, or Lore of Beasts)

Captain of the Empire 108 pts - BSB, Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon, and Full Plate Armor
Is he a little soft and, if so, how do I improve him?

Well, the standard equip for a BSB is Armour of Meteoric Iron and Dawn Stone, both of which are already used. You could give him the Enchanted Shield and the Dawnstone for a 2+ re-rollable, or just pay for a 5+ ward save.

Warrior Priest 125 pts - Barded warhorse, Dawn Stone, Dragon Helm, Heavy Armor, and Shield
Hatred for the knights.

I would recommend Dawn Armour rather than this equip. It gives him +1 to his save and re-rolls, for the same points. You lose the ward save against fire, but it means the Dawn Stone can be used elsewhere.

Core - 645/240 pts (32.3%/12.0%)
Halberdiers x36 200 pts - Full Command
BSB + Arch-Lector + Wizard Lord Here
Det. Handgunners x10 80 pts
Det. Handgunners x10 80 pts

Formation? 7x5 would ensure a lot of attacks, 5x7 would ensure you'd be steadfast, I suppose you can always reform depending on what they're fighting. I would try squeezing in a unit of 15 Swordsmen as a detachment, you'll be negating ranks, and you'll get + for a charge, and +1 for a flank, possibly a +5 combat resolution!

Swordsmen x25 175 pts - Full Command
Wizard Here
Det. Handgunners x10 80 pts

If this is just a bunker for your mage, you could probably afford to lose some guys here.

Knightly Orders x10 270 pts - Full Command and Standard of Arcane warding
Priest Here

Actually, I prefer the Standard of Valour, ignoring Panic can be very useful. I like my Knights to flank, but to do this they need to have 5 in the back rank when they reach combat. Basically, I'd add another guy, so you can take 2 casualties before reaching combat.

Special - 275 pts (13.8%)
Great Cannon x2

Mortar
Fire Support

2 Cannons? Depends on your local scene, I find my cannons are usually running out of targets. I would drop one and add an Engineer. As long as you deploy your War Machines within 6" of each other he can apply his re-roll to whichever war machine needs it. You lose 1 cannon to make both your remaining cannon and your mortar more reliable.


Overall, it looks like the standard Empire balanced list. The plan is still always sit back so your opponent has to advance. If you were playing higher points, say 2250, you could make your Halberdiers a Horde formation, and add either Pistoliers, Outriders, Huntsmen, or a Helblaster. Anyway, it looks like a solid list.

librisrouge
09-08-2010, 20:43
Actually, I misspoke (mistyped?) when I stated that the War Priest had the Dawn Stone. I meant that the priest had the luckstone. Not nearly as good but also not nearly as expensive.

Caboose123
10-08-2010, 00:13
Actually, I misspoke (mistyped?) when I stated that the War Priest had the Dawn Stone. I meant that the priest had the luckstone. Not nearly as good but also not nearly as expensive.

Errr, Dawn Stone... 25 pts Luckstone... 25 pts...
Also a priest can't carry a luckstone, it's an arcane item an he's not a wizard.

librisrouge
10-08-2010, 00:27
Maybe I'm still thinking about the wrong item. It's the new common magic item that allows a single re-roll of a failed armor save.

zanzibar
10-08-2010, 02:51
Yeah mate i know what u mean, 5 pts of goodness for my arch lector =)
If you don't mind i could post up a list of 2000 pts i have been experimenting with just to illustrate how i would change your list?
Here goes:
Lord
Lector, war altar, armour of meteroic iron, speculum, great wepon

HEROES
Warrior priest, B. warhorse, heavy armour, great weapon
Warrior priest, shield, heavy armour
BSB cap. barded warhorse, full plate
Master engineer

CORE
35 Halbs, fc, det. 10 handgunners
35 swordsmen, fc, det 10 handgunners
10 Knights, fc

SPECIAL
2 great cannons
mortar
5pitsoliers, muso
5 outriders, muso

2001 pts total

Now I centered around your central core units, filling out the swordsmen to make use of horde, both regiments can now kill stuff or reform to become steadfast.
The heroes are basic but still hard, the BSB has no ward but has a 2+ armour save which makes him resilient and cheap.
The warrior preists are basic loadout, i use them as unit buffers, magic defence rather than killy characters, try and keep these guys alive and make use of the prayers to buff but also to get them that nice ward save for survivability in combat.

The arch lector is useful, the altar gives you at least 1 spell a turn from the lore of light, especially good when this list ahs no wizards (boo-hiss!!!)
His 1+ar save and 4+ ward means he is harder to kill, he will be a target, use him in the centre to hold your battle line with ld bonus and useful light spells.

The handgunner detachments are useful and cheap disposable damage dealing units, not much needs being said for them... same story with the knights, useful for flank charges with ur infantry.

Your light cav can do light cav stuff depending on the situation, they r aa must have this edition.

Group your war machines together on a hill with the vaanilla engineer and bombard away, the engineer is a MUST if you have 3 warmachines.
As you can see from the lack of wizards, i have forgone magic offence for defence and blackpowdre fast cav offence, you can drop the fast cav for wizards but i prefer the more reliable horse boys.

Placement of the warrior priests is crucial, the barded warhorse chap can go with the knights or one of the regiments, i would place the bsb with your swordsmen and the 2nd priest with the halbs (since they will be taking heavy casualties)

Tell me what you think mate, as this is pretty much the list i have been running with since 8th popped out =)
And it is quite similar to yours!!!

Zanzibar.

Walls
10-08-2010, 05:10
I worry about your "deathstar". You're empire, you're likely to lose combat. Do you want to lose all those characters in one fell swoop?

librisrouge
10-08-2010, 05:18
I kinda like your list, here's what I'd change mine to if I wanted to add Fast Cav.

Lords - 476 pts (23.8%)
Wizard Lord 290 pts - Level 4, Staff of Sorcery, Holy Relic, and Lore of Fire

Arch-Lector 186 - Armor of Meteoric Iron, Great weapon, and Van Horstman's Speculum

Heroes - 343 pts (17.2%)
Battle Wizard 130 pts - Level 2 ,Rod of Power, and Lore of Light

Captain of the Empire 103 pts - BSB, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon, and Full Plate Armor

Warrior Priest 110 pts - Barded warhorse, Heavy Armor, and Shield

Core - 645/160 pts (32.3%/8.0%)
Halberdiers x36 200 pts - Full Command
Det. Handgunners x10 80 pts

Swordsmen x25 175 pts - Full Command
Det. Handgunners x10 80 pts

Knightly Orders x10 270 pts - Full Command and Great Weapons

Special - 372 pts (18.6%)
Great Cannon x2

Mortar

Pistoliers x5 w/ Musician 97

4 Remaining Points

A few points though that I'd like to run by you.

Your magic phase is the one I dream of going against. I'll get to store three dice every time to give me enough dice w/ my +4 to set you alight. My +5 to dispel means I basically get 1.5 more dice then you per spell you try.
I'm having a hard time seeing the benefit of Fast Cav. in the new edition. Pistoliers will likely need a 6 to hit since they now suffer from long range and they can't reliably march block. What are your thoughts? I really want to take them because I love the asthetic.
I like magic. It's the reason I abandoned Dwarves. A none to little magic army just makes me feel that I should have stayed with Dwarves.
I understand the Master Engineer and if I don't take pistoliers I might add one in with the points.
I don't take the BSB on a horse for two reasons. A) I don't have the model :rolleyes: B) If I do, he has to go with knights to get a Look Out, Sir! roll.

zanzibar
10-08-2010, 11:07
Sure some nicee points raised
1. It may well set me alight... But i Have managed to handle level 4 wizards before with this list, without too much trouble, it would only be an issue if i was versing another empire player with arch lectors and warrior priests =) And i tend to avoid Empire VRS empire games if possible (they tend to end as bloody draws). My recent game against an experienced dark elves player saw two level 1s and a level 4... managed to survive that with dispell dice.
2. Fast cavalry are really useful in distracting, eradicating isolated units, mages, they can get in a forward position from the start and if they manage to get behind enemy lines can contest and harass much to the annoyance of slow infantry blocks, once annoyed enough if charged they have a good chance of just peppering said unit to kingdom come, etc. outriders are just really cheap t 113pts with a muso and can deal alot of damage (plus they act as a psychological weapon especially against elf players)
3. Magic is awesome now, i use mages in alternative lists and with my WoC army, but i find at 2000 pts i would prefer investing in warrior priests, my 2500 list sees the level 4 heavy hitters come into the picture. It is an issue of personal preference.
4. Master engineers are crucial, but only if you have 3 or more war machines that you plan on pinning some hopes on =) (and which veteran empire player doesn't occasionally?
5. A) Lol that is why i dont take a captain on a pegasus to do the job of the pistoliers
B) Yes he does, better i find though that he has a 2+ save and no look out sir rule than a 4+ save and the look out sir rule. (vrsing WoC alot has made me biased on this point). If you still have qualms, give him armour of meteoric iron and give ur lector dawn armour, enchanted shield instead.

tbdehart
10-08-2010, 21:30
Unless you are sincerely trying to avoid artillery you can't go wrong with at least one helblaster volley gun. I mean you can, IF you misfire turn 1, but even then only another 1 completely screws you. Volley guns are sweet for busting heavy cav. Mine took out 10 chaos knights in 2 turns (400 points?). For a mere 110 points it might be something to look into taking on a regular basis.

At any rate 2 cannons seems a bit weird, seeing as i only use mine to target the BIG stuff (like a bloodthirster or a dragon). Consider dropping a cannon for a volley gun against armies with a lot of heavy cav.

librisrouge
10-08-2010, 23:30
Excellent points zanzibar and tbdehart. I'm definetly going with the Enchanted Shield on the BSB to get the +2 armor and LO,S!. I'm hoping to compensate for not having my Volley Gun w/ Lore of Fire. At 2250 or 2500, I'll definetly add a Master Engineer and a Volley Gun though. They're just too good.

zanzibar
10-08-2010, 23:50
By the way... is that the enchanted shield in the rulebook (5pts) or the enield in the empire book (15pts)
I'm still confused becuase the wording for each one is different... so i presumed that we could take the chaeper option now always?
And the BSB can now take shields? since when??
I have been playing more WoC than empire since 8th popped out so this is a new issue for me=0
Zan

librisrouge
12-08-2010, 02:46
I was a little shocked to notice it too but I looked through the BSB section (in the army list if you want to look it up yourself) and it only forbids other mundane items besides armor if you take a Battle Standard. By my interpretation that means that magic shields are fair game. This does mean that if you make a BSB model with shield on it you're pretty much forcing yourself to take a magic shield on him every game...I'm kinda failing to see the down side personally. :D

Also, armybookss override the BRB so any similar items are at the armybook cost. It's the same rule that gives us cheaper Swords of Might and Swords of Battle.

zanzibar
12-08-2010, 03:13
Sweeeeeet so for 15 pts enchanted shield i can now have a 2+ BSB cap?
Waaaay better to leave the armour of meteoric iron for my lector
Still pity about no enchanted shield for 5pts=(

librisrouge
12-08-2010, 03:17
Yeah, it's a great revelation. Sucks armybuilder has it wrong. The only thing I can think of is if there is some rule saying that, if you can't have a mundane version, you can't have a magical one but, aside from wizards and armor, I don't recall this existing.

Anardakil
12-08-2010, 16:09
No the rulebook only states that you need to be able to take armour to take magical armour :)