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Spike Fiend
09-08-2010, 15:41
It seems to me that people on this forum generally dislike Games Workshop's Greater Daemon models. I'm interested in finding out which of the models that you like the most in order to decide which of the four is least in need of a model update. Feel free to come up with a long explanation for your vote if you want to.

By the way, this thread only concerns the models that Games Workshop have made specifically for the normal Bloodthirster, Lord of Change, Great Unclean One and Keeper of Secrets. Proxies, conversions, Forge World models and the like don't count.

Vashta
09-08-2010, 15:46
The GUO is fine, the others are all (and generaly always have been) a bit naff.

Omar_Little
09-08-2010, 15:48
They could all do with being updated, the worst offender being the Bloodthirster. The Lord of Change is IMHO the best of a poor bunch.

Korraz
09-08-2010, 15:53
Lord and Keeper are Okayish (now, that they brought the Goathead back)
Thirster and GUO are just...no.

AFnord
09-08-2010, 15:56
Lord of change & keeper of secrets (old head!) are both good models. The old bloodthirster & old GUO were both good, the current ones are.. not so good.

Exc20002001
09-08-2010, 15:57
I genereally overall actually like all the greater daemon models.

But IF pushed from good to bad the order would be, LoC, bloodythirsty, GUO and then in last place KoS

But I actually like the GUO and KOS personally, maybe cause I like the GUO fatness and the many hands of KoS.

LoC and BT look and feel I think the newest, as well the bloodthirster has a great 'im gonna whack you bad', the LoC looks pretty with his 'big stick'

The GUO and KOS just look the most dated to me, simple as that. the GUO as well could use a little more imagination while the KOS needs a better attacking stance or if he was made a sexy BI&$*H like the forge world model that would be very impressive. another idea for GUO is to mount him with a super super heavy duty (not a typo) palanquin much like Epidemius.

I dont imagine GW budget would allow them to make new models for Greater Daemons after the DP new models though TBH.

MajorWesJanson
09-08-2010, 16:00
Lord of Change is the best, fitting in well alongside the new Fateweaver and even standing up fairly well alongside the FW version.

Keeper of secrets is not bad bad, but it just has the problem of how to portray Slannesh. Maybe something more like a medusa with a serpentine tail instead of legs would work better.

GUO is pretty ugly, and not in the good way. The metal one looks kind of like the Creature from the Black Lagoon who really let himself go. Instead of tiny legs and a belly that drags on the ground, I'd go moe towards a green Stay Puft Marshmallo man in shape, then add the weapons and Plague detailing.

Bloodthirster is the worst, too much evil cow and not enough fearsome beast. Needs to inspire fear. FW managed it with An'ngratth, and GW did pretty well with the Balrog.

Ultimate Life Form
09-08-2010, 16:14
Hard to say; they're all awesome, in fact they're the sole reason I'm starting Daemons. Would have been easier if you asked which is my least favorite, which is the Bloodthirster. But I agree with the current consensus of the poll, the LoC is pretty darn good.

kaubin
09-08-2010, 16:23
If I had to choose one, i'd go for the GUO. Kind of sad though when the Daemon Princes from Forgeworld are better and bigger than any of the Greater Daemons though...

BigbyWolf
09-08-2010, 16:25
I'd go more towards a green Stay Puft Marshmallo man in shape, then add the weapons and Plague detailing.


But then you'd have a GUO that looks nothing like it's supposed to...

The metal GUO IS very bad, the FW one is what it should looklike, not some overweight frog with a bad case of herpes.

Urgat
09-08-2010, 16:28
I like them all, but I prefer the GUO's and KoS' old heads, and the LoC'rs new head is actually AMon Shakai's head (well, cap, at least), which I find a bit strange :p

Col. Tartleton
09-08-2010, 16:38
They're all okay. They will be redone in plastic at some point. They're part of four pretty popular armies, they'll get redone.

However they should make them more stylized. The Forgeworld Daemon Prince is pretty ace. Something like that with wings would be perfect. I'd kind of like to see it's head in Bloodletter style with those sort of horns.

I'd like to see the Keeper of Secrets look more like a golden bull-man, no crabclaws, give it six arms instead to look hinduish and mysterious.

Great Unclean one could do with being more giant bloated corpse devil and less maggot encrusted slime ball.

The lord of change would be nicer as a bit cleaner looking sculpt. More like the forgeworld one.

TeddyC
09-08-2010, 16:50
with a bit of re posing the Bloodthirster is nice.

I prefer the old KoS with the 'bull' head... not the old old one... just before they re did all the heads on the new ones.

I really like the new fate weaver model as well who is a greater daemon....

Orcboy_Phil
09-08-2010, 16:54
If only GW would do a KOS in the same style as the forgeworld one.

Max_Killfactor
09-08-2010, 17:02
Bovine head KoS. I don't know why, but it gets me hot.

Putty
09-08-2010, 17:03
i only like the Lord of Change.... the other 3 are POS and in desperate need of a re-do.

Bassik
09-08-2010, 17:04
I think they all look decent, considdering their age. My favorite is the Keeper of Secrets as long as you use the bovine head and not the squid head.
But a redo is needed. Kairos Fateweaver shows us what they can do with the concepts, so get on with it :D

Tymell
09-08-2010, 17:05
I think they're all pretty good considering their age, but Lord of Change takes the gold.

It's a great model, one I appreciated all the more when I held it for myself, really conveys a wisened daemon king feel, it's one of those models that just -works-.

The other three are all okay, but the poses on the Bloodthirster and Keeper hold them back for me, and the Great Unclean One lacks character.

LoC is also the only one which isn't outshined by it's Forge World counterpart.

Bassik
09-08-2010, 17:07
eeper hold them back for me, and the Great Unclean One lacks character.

LoC is also the only one which isn't outshined by it's Forge World counterpart.

Though this is more FW's fault than anyone else's.

Tymell
09-08-2010, 17:21
Though this is more FW's fault than anyone else's.

Oh I know, that's why I add it as an also point at the end :)

Palantir
09-08-2010, 17:23
Great Unclean One is the best one imo, followed by Lord of Change.
Bloodthirster looks crap. Keeper should be more man less horse.

Francois
09-08-2010, 17:23
Hi there Spikefiend!
I really wanted to vote for the Keeper of Secrets, I really did. But I'm finding it a real pain to assemble! So I'm voting for Great Unclean One, which looks decent and has the good manners to assemble well.

Thanks for the poll!
--- Frankie

Chaos Undecided
09-08-2010, 17:28
I personally miss the Realms of Chaos era Greater Daemons with their wealth of options to vary their appearance still have a Keeper and a GUO hiding away somewhere, of course by todays standard they're far too small really to be used as such especially compared the the current ones of whom I'd probably go for the Lord of Change as the least in need of an update.

Gekiganger
09-08-2010, 17:30
Lord of Change is fine, I liked the old GUO, hate the new head.

Goblin Gonads
09-08-2010, 22:50
I think they are all fairly poor, the BT and GUO being the worst, KoS is just meh and LoC is the best of a bad bunch but not by much. I have replaced all of mine with Ultraforge versions.

pointyteeth
09-08-2010, 23:10
GUO is my favorite, followed by the Keeper with the bull head (not the ugly "Bondage-Octopus" head). The LoC is ok but kinda bland, and the Bloodthirster is just...ugly...in a bad way.

Garr Sledgefist
10-08-2010, 02:48
The Great Unclean One is my favorite. It looks a little bland by itself but is easy to convert a little. Mine has a shield and the River Troll plastic puke!

Scribe of Khorne
10-08-2010, 03:37
Lord of Change is probably the best of the bunch, I have seen some great paint jobs on that model still.

The Bloodthirster seriously needs an update. If only to bring its hands down a few sizes...:cries:

Ithaenc
10-08-2010, 05:18
I'd say the Lord of Change is the best of the four. I even prefer the GW one to the FW one with those dreadful wings...

Orcboy_Phil
10-08-2010, 06:15
I have replaced all of mine with Ultraforge versions.

Good to know, but i think I'll wait til something that dosen't look like crap comes out. Or save up for the forgeworld ones.

KalEf
10-08-2010, 06:58
Lord of Change is probably the best of the bunch, I have seen some great paint jobs on that model still.

The Bloodthirster seriously needs an update. If only to bring its hands down a few sizes...:cries:

I agree. hands a little smaller + biceps a little bigger

If you need a bloodthirster right now, buy a doombull and some wings.

Lordsaradain
10-08-2010, 12:04
LoC is the best looking one IMO.


Lord of Change is fine, I liked the old GUO, hate the new head.

Agree, the old head with the funky tounge was much better.

Orcboy_Phil
10-08-2010, 12:28
I agree. hands a little smaller + biceps a little bigger

If you need a bloodthirster right now, buy a doombull and some wings.

Actually, some greenstuff, plasticard a couple of bits from the minotaur sprue and a balrog make a really mean looking bloodthirster.

Sleazy
10-08-2010, 12:38
Good to know, but i think I'll wait til something that dosen't look like crap comes out. Or save up for the forgeworld ones.

You really think UF sculpts are crap?

Sorry dude I gotta disagree, I really rate UF. I only have their merc giant personally but would love some of their others.

Thanatos_elNyx
10-08-2010, 13:56
They are all terrible.
The FW Keeper and BT are nice though.

AlphariusOmegon20
10-08-2010, 16:15
The LoC, by far.

The rest are nice, but The LoC far outshines the rest.

Earthbeard
10-08-2010, 16:26
GUO, LoC then it's joint 3rd for BT and KoS for me.

I quite like them all to be honest.

RunepriestRidcully
10-08-2010, 16:53
The Lord Of change is the best, and Kairos could count as a normal one if you wanted, those two models almost peruaded me to take up a Tzeentch fantasy Armie, and I still am thinking of using the LOC for my Thousand Sons. The GUO is the worst, it just looks... silly? ugly? I am not quite sure. After the LOC I would say it is a Tie between the bovine headed KOS and the Dog Headed BT, When GW redoes them I hope they keep both options

I'd like to see the Keeper of Secrets look more like a golden bull-man, no crabclaws, give it six arms instead to look hinduish and mysterious.


That would be good, apart from the 6 arms, 4 is okay, agree on the no crab claws, for some reason the Idea of Slannesh's Greater Deamons being Giant Bull men seems perfect, I do not know why, though it would fit in Khorne=Dogs and Various Canids, Tzeentch=Birds, so Slannesh=Bulls would be good, Nurgle=OldMen? perhaps, I have no idea, never really like him, I liked all the other chaos Gods and have thought about doing an army of them, (Mortal or Deamon, proberbly a mix) but Nurgle.. I have never thought of doing him, even the FW Plague marines did not change that. And I agree with the FW LOC= epic Fail, I mean every other god's apart from Nurgle looked great, and then we get that joke of a model, sorry I just do not like it I mean what's so scary about a handfull of horrors, me and a Friend joke about how all other daemons use horrors as snacks, did FW have a newbie sculpter do him or something?

Hicks
10-08-2010, 17:50
I voted Lord of change and in all cases the old heads were much better.

Black_Omega
10-08-2010, 18:04
They are all fantastic!

Dr Death
10-08-2010, 18:34
Well they are all looking their age, but back when they were a bit more 'current' i thought they all looked pretty damn cool, but that was with the earlier edition of heads (including the bloodthirster's), the Lord of Change is probably the one that's best withstood the aging process though. Unfortunately they have been well and truly trounced by the Forgeworld versions, even if there are some of the design elements that i actually prefer in the metal versions- the Forgeworld Bloodthirster's face has never really convinced me, and there is something to be said for the 'sacred cow' look of the Keeper of Secrets.

Incidentally- what could anyone have against the Forgeworld Lord of Change?! I think it looks amazing! All the ingredients of the wizened master of sorcery are there (i even like the 'horrors'- i don't think of them as that, rather as damned souls grasping to be released from the prison of the LoC's unholy will), the staff though with the coiling things isn't quite as imposing as the modern metal LoC's- a single shaft of whatever material you care to paint it topped with a simple depiction of their god's icon.

Dr Death

Tymell
10-08-2010, 20:58
Incidentally- what could anyone have against the Forgeworld Lord of Change?! I think it looks amazing! All the ingredients of the wizened master of sorcery are there (i even like the 'horrors'- i don't think of them as that, rather as damned souls grasping to be released from the prison of the LoC's unholy will), the staff though with the coiling things isn't quite as imposing as the modern metal LoC's- a single shaft of whatever material you care to paint it topped with a simple depiction of their god's icon.

I wouldn't say it's a bad model, it just doesn't inspire me like the other 3 do. The pose is a bit odd and wings are bland. Other parts of it I really like (head, horrors, staff), but those aspects hold it back.

Zaustus
10-08-2010, 21:05
I voted LoC, which I still think is a pretty decent model.

As for the Forge World LoC, it's the dreadful wings that bother me. Everything else is okay -- not exciting, but okay -- but the wings really ruin that model for me. Which is slightly ironic, since on the normal metal LoC, the wings are its best feature.

DaemonReign
10-08-2010, 21:10
My favorite is the Keeper of Secrets, my least favored model is the Bloodthirster (I had to go with Forgeworld DP and Ultraforge Greater Wardemon instead).

Jind_Singh
11-08-2010, 01:20
I actually really like all four of my Greater Deamon models, and with the new
Fate Weaver coming out - heck I'll have five that I like! I voted for cow face - she's sexy, very lithe and great stance, the GUO is also nice, but I also love the Lord of Change (or Big Bird as he's known).
The Thirster is the poorer of the 4, but I still enjoy him too!

darkprincewilson
11-08-2010, 01:23
GUO is my favorite.

R3pr3ssor
11-08-2010, 04:55
the bloodthirster is super cartoony, the Unclean one is fine, the lord of change is great, the keeper of secrets is like everything slannesh, decidedly hideous.

WiganUltra
11-08-2010, 10:43
Liked all 4 of them when I first got into the hobby about 12 years ago. LoC was always my favourite and IMO has stood the test of time better than the others, but I'm not sure I'd pay 30 or whatever it is for any of them now. KoS (bovine head) would be a close 2nd, then GuO, whilst the 'Thirster looks terrible now.

Having eagerly anticipated the FW LoC ever since the KoS came out, I was very disappointed with the result. It's superbly detailed but just isn't very inspiring overall, with the wings the biggest problem. They're good, but just don't suit it at all.

I'm also not keen on the UF ones either. They're very good sculpts, but to me don't fit stylistically with GW models.

For now I'm going to try converting the superb FW DP of Khorne into a 'Thirster, although with the shoulder pads right in the way of where the wings would go, no doubt I'll make a complete hash of it :)

Odin
11-08-2010, 10:49
Aside from the KoS (which was always horrible), they were all really good models for their time. The Bloodthirster has aged badly, but the GUO and LoC are both still really nice models in my opinion. All look best with the original heads, the newer heads are godawful.

Covering Fire
11-08-2010, 11:00
Voted for the Lord of Change. Still looks OK to me.

I agree with previous posters on the old heads - they were far better!

Desert Rain
11-08-2010, 11:45
I've always liked the Lord of Change the most, but all four of them are really starting to show their age now.

Wishing
11-08-2010, 14:50
Khorne=Dogs and Various Canids, Tzeentch=Birds, so Slannesh=Bulls would be good, Nurgle=OldMen?

If they all get animals, Nurgle should be insects, even though he currently seems to be limited to fat corpses. Shame that they seem to have abandoned the bull head for Slaanesh, even though the FW KOS is major awesomesauce.

AlphariusOmegon20
11-08-2010, 15:40
If they all get animals, Nurgle should be insects, even though he currently seems to be limited to fat corpses. Shame that they seem to have abandoned the bull head for Slaanesh, even though the FW KOS is major awesomesauce.

Well, Nurgle DOES have the fly as one of his symbols....

moogoodoo
11-08-2010, 16:44
bloodthirster has bin out a while but think thay all can do with being bigger

moogoodoo
11-08-2010, 16:46
can any one help me out with how to use them in 8th have a ks and bloodthirster but cant seem to fit them in anything less than 3500 point army and then i dont know if there worth it thanks

LonelyPath
11-08-2010, 21:42
I'm not a fan of any of the current Greater Daemons, but if I'd have to pick one, then I'd say the Great Unclean One is the least worst looking of the bunch.

Orcboy_Phil
11-08-2010, 21:55
The keeper and Bloodthirster are pretty good combat lords as is in a 2000pt game. You just need to priotise the gifts your going to give them as they only have 50pts to spend. Your also going to have to choose which one you want as well.

Malakai
12-08-2010, 01:16
I like my KoS. But I don't like the Donkey Head, I like the one with the tongue! :evilgrin:

Nubl0
12-08-2010, 01:37
Plastic greater daemons would make my day, if the bloodthirster just looked like the one in dawn of war I would love gw. Atm the best looking is the lord of change... followed by the keeper of secrets, that said its only because they have aged well. None of them look really good and they could all do with a size increase.

BobtheInquisitor
12-08-2010, 05:14
Voted for the Lord of Change. Still looks OK to me.

I agree with previous posters on the old heads - they were far better!


Is there a picture of what the old LoC's head looked like? I see the one on the GW site, but can't remember any other variant.

I can see the KoS's Octopussy face in my mind's eye, and the Bloodthirster's Mr Ugly face is hard to forget, but I have to say I prefer their other heads. The GUO never really caught my eye at all. All in all, the LoC is my favorite, and I even prefer the metal version over the boring Forgeworld version, but that is damning with faint praise. The KoS is my second favorite, with the BT being okay at best, especially since the plastic Balrog is cheaper and better in every way. I can't imagine paying GW's asking price for any of these lackluster greater daemons, though.

Tymell
12-08-2010, 08:59
Is there a picture of what the old LoC's head looked like? I see the one on the GW site, but can't remember any other variant.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080722111844/warhammer40k/images/1/15/Chaos_lord_of_change_lg.jpg

BobtheInquisitor
13-08-2010, 01:31
Hmmm. That's not too different from the new head. All of the other GDs have one good head and one completely different, hideous head, but the Lord of Change, the one with an actual excuse for having mutant spare head, just has two versions of the same head with a slight variation (armor)... Really makes you think.

Aluinn
13-08-2010, 01:36
I voted for "hate all of them", but that's not exactly how I feel; I don't like any of them, but I do believe that the Keeper of Secrets and the Lord of Change are almost decent. I don't say this by way of comparison with the FW models, but rather from comparison with other, more recent large monsters that GW has produced. Essentially, the GDs are just outdated, I think.

There is a problem with redoing them, though, in that each is so distinctive that a single plastic kit could never represent them all very well. Since GW would have to redo them one-by-one, and probably in metal once again, I can't see it happening too soon. In fact, that probably goes a long way towards explaining why such old sculpts are still being used.

Rosstifer
13-08-2010, 03:09
I like my KoS. But I don't like the Donkey Head, I like the one with the tongue! :evilgrin:

I agree, Cows/Donkey/Goat head looks really bad. And not the retro bad. Just bad. Thats just my opinion though, if I did Slaanesh Daemons I'd definatly go forgeworld.

Murphys Avatar
13-08-2010, 03:11
I only selected lord of change cause its better than average but they all need redoing as the other three suck big time. But dont redo them like the new fateweaver as that would be even worse...

Tymell
13-08-2010, 22:26
Hmmm. That's not too different from the new head. All of the other GDs have one good head and one completely different, hideous head, but the Lord of Change, the one with an actual excuse for having mutant spare head, just has two versions of the same head with a slight variation (armor)... Really makes you think.

Yeah, it's definitely the least different overall. If I recall, it's actually supposed to be the head of the named Lord of Change, Amon'Chakai, who has the hat in a picture. I guess they decided to change the other ones too.

Proctorkorps
14-08-2010, 04:55
anyone got a pic of the old GUO head?

LOC is definitely the best (with new head) followed by KOS (with new head, the goat looks crappy) then GUO then, of course the BT (i prefer the bull head, is that the new or old one?)

Tymell
14-08-2010, 08:06
Old Great Unclean One: http://whfb.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/a/a0/Great_Unclean_One_%285th_Edi%29.jpg

Spike Fiend
14-08-2010, 15:06
Yeah, it's definitely the least different overall.

But remember that the staff was changed too.


Thanks for all the votes and replies! (Keep them coming if you wish)

As some of you might have seen in the public poll, I voted for the Lord of Change as my personal favourite. As with a lot of you, I think that the wings of that model surpass those of the Forge World Lord of Change in terms of splendour. I personally like all of the Greater Daemon models, but agree that they pale in comparison to Games Workshop's most recent monster models and especially the Forge World Greater Daemons.

And yes, I do think that Games Workshop will renew these models. After all, the Daemons of Chaos model range is amongst the most updated, due to the fact that it can be used in both Warhammer and 40K. This won't happen now, of course, but I guess that at least one of them will be remade when the Daemons of Chaos get their 8th Edition Army Book. My money's on the Bloodthirster because it's Khornate. And, according to this poll, it also seems to be the best first choice for Games Workshop. (:

mathieu
14-08-2010, 22:50
Same here, I think the LoS is by far the best looking GW greater daemon, and by far the ugliest FW greater daemon...

Tymell
14-08-2010, 23:04
But remember that the staff was changed too.

It was, I was just referring to the heads in that quote :)

StarFyreXXX
14-08-2010, 23:05
i think they all suck. luckily, i have each of the FW ones instead :)

Belakor, the nurgle daemon prince, and the plastic demon prince are the only good larger demon models GW has made (outside of FW)

Sanjay

Proctorkorps
15-08-2010, 04:06
Old Great Unclean One: http://whfb.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/a/a0/Great_Unclean_One_%285th_Edi%29.jpg

okay that head's just straight ugly.

the best improvement among the greater demons is KoS, the FW one is far better than the GW's

KalEf
15-08-2010, 06:24
i think they all suck. luckily, i have each of the FW ones instead :)

Belakor, the nurgle daemon prince, and the plastic demon prince are the only good larger demon models GW has made (outside of FW)

Sanjay

you must have one heck of a job sir.

SiNNiX
15-08-2010, 06:43
They all need to be upgraded in size as well. Put a Bloodthirster next to any of the newer large monster models and see just how tiny it is.

But yeah, I'd definitely say that the KOS is the best of the worst. They could really all use an upgrading, or maybe a company should sculpt new ones and NOT charge over $150 for them.

phoenixguard09
15-08-2010, 08:06
Well I quite like the Greater Daemons but I think that the appropriately named "squid-head" KoS and the GUO with the tentacle coming out of his mouth are the worst. Also the demonic head of the BT as opposed to the nice looking animalistic one.

I uh, accidentally voted for the GUO. I thought the poll was asking for least favourite. Woops. My favourite is the dog-head BT.

StormCrow
15-08-2010, 08:37
There is nothing about GW's 'greater' demons that strikes mortal terror in my soul. When compared to their forgeworld counterparts they look absolutely terrible. The only one I would consider buying would be the great unclean one and even then I'd only use it as a herald because it's so small.

Spike Fiend
15-08-2010, 14:27
It was, I was just referring to the heads in that quote

I know, just a little note for everyone... (;