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Purplepride
09-08-2010, 17:08
Besides regular Marines, we've seen both Librarian and Chaplain Dreadnoughts.

So I came to think why there has been no info on Techmarine Dreadnoughts (at least not that I'm aware of)?

Wouldn't a deadly wounded techmarine be the obvious choice of marine to be incased in a dreadnought?

Scalebug
09-08-2010, 17:18
Apart from exeptions like the Iron Fathers of the Iron Hands (Techmarine/chaplains/officers), techmarines tend not to be up front and doing the heroic deeds that both earns you the right to be interred in a Dreadnough, and ironically gets you fatally wounded enough to need to...

jlmb_123
09-08-2010, 17:22
Wouldn't a deadly wounded techmarine be the obvious choice of marine to be incased in a dreadnought?

Not really, he'd be dead. :D

Son of Sanguinius
09-08-2010, 17:30
Besides regular Marines, we've seen both Librarian and Chaplain Dreadnoughts.

So I came to think why there has been no info on Techmarine Dreadnoughts (at least not that I'm aware of)?

Wouldn't a deadly wounded techmarine be the obvious choice of marine to be incased in a dreadnought?

Yes, but the appendages fitted to a Dreadnought would be useless in repairing a vehicle, so it makes little battlefield difference if it's a veteran marine or a techmarine. That said, a Dreadnought with a massive servo-harness would be incredibly cool.

[shameless plug]Check out my dreadnought entry in my fandex in my sig. I have options for a force commander, chaplain, and librarian dreadnought. Post 80, I think.[/shameless plug]

Lord Malorne
09-08-2010, 17:39
What is the difference? How about Apothecary dreadnoughts? Do you expect the tech-dreadnought to run around fixing land raiders?

Son of Sanguinius
09-08-2010, 17:59
:D

Apothecary Dreadnought: "We must perform surgery! Hand me the scalpel!"
Apothecary Initiate: "How, my lord?"
Apothecary Dreadnought: "Weld it on, foolish novice. And find my WD-40."

Lord Malorne
09-08-2010, 18:00
I'm still waiting for the assault marine dreadnoughts, flying dreadnoughts :)

Son of Sanguinius
09-08-2010, 18:01
I'm still waiting for the assault marine dreadnoughts, flying dreadnoughts :)

The Blood Angels have those, if I'm not mistaken. Stupid Furioso Librarians.

Col. Tartleton
09-08-2010, 18:18
Call me crazy, but couldn't you just put a techmarine in a dreadnought... I mean sure a servo harness would be cool, but he's already got giant crusher claws, a flame thrower, machine gun, etc. He's quite at home in a standard double fister dread.

I mean the reason they didn't have librarian dreads in the fluff was because the sleeping schedule thing doesn't work right. The whole frozen time capsule in the sarcophagus (I forget what its called) doesn't turn their mind off. So they go insane/ get possessed. Imagine being awake for six thousand years paralyzed. Not pleasant. The Chaos dreads on the other hand don't even have the time capsule thing, so they all go insane.

Oh well. Apparently they got rid of that bit.

geeksquared
09-08-2010, 18:30
There is a Techmarine dreadnought in the latest Uriel Ventris book.

Scalebug
09-08-2010, 19:16
C
I mean the reason they didn't have librarian dreads in the fluff was because the sleeping schedule thing doesn't work right. The whole frozen time capsule in the sarcophagus (I forget what its called) doesn't turn their mind off. So they go insane/ get possessed. Imagine being awake for six thousand years paralyzed. Not pleasant. The Chaos dreads on the other hand don't even have the time capsule thing, so they all go insane.

Oh well. Apparently they got rid of that bit.

Source? Sure you are not thinking about the Stallone movie Demolition Man? :)

Not that I like the idea of Librarian Dreadnoughts that much... And why for the Blood Angels? It felt really tacked-on there, Blood Angels never been describer as an especially Psyker oriented chapter (apart from MEphiston, but he is a unique case...).

ashc
09-08-2010, 19:34
Librarian dreadnought came about because they are going to release a plastic model that incorporates twin fists/claws/librarian options. Its pretty obvious that this was a model driven and not background driven choice.

Purplepride
09-08-2010, 19:54
There is a Techmarine dreadnought in the latest Uriel Ventris book.

Is that the Chapter's Due?

Nazguire
10-08-2010, 06:01
Techmarines aren't mechanics. They are Space Marines first, mechanics second. They'd be right in the front lines, just as an Apothecary is. There would be plenty of opportunities for them to prove (as in, be horribly wounded in a heroic fashion) that they are 'worthy' of being interred in a dreadnought, dubious honour that it is.

From what I remember, there was an Astral Claw that was placed inside a Dreadnought sarcophagus with no limbs, no way of hibernation etc etc who was psychic. And he wasn't able to use his powers at all.

So, how are Librarian Dreadnoughts meant to work? There is precedence that being locked inside one of those things will stop you being able to use your psychic powers, yet now we have Blood Angel Librarians in dreadnoughts?

Son of Sanguinius
10-08-2010, 06:32
Techmarines aren't mechanics. They are Space Marines first, mechanics second. They'd be right in the front lines, just as an Apothecary is. There would be plenty of opportunities for them to prove (as in, be horribly wounded in a heroic fashion) that they are 'worthy' of being interred in a dreadnought, dubious honour that it is.

I think that much is understood. It's just that in terms of the game, there is no real reason to differentiate between a normal Veteran interred and a Techmarine interred.


From what I remember, there was an Astral Claw that was placed inside a Dreadnought sarcophagus with no limbs, no way of hibernation etc etc who was psychic. And he wasn't able to use his powers at all.

Was there a specific reasoning behind his inability?


So, how are Librarian Dreadnoughts meant to work? There is precedence that being locked inside one of those things will stop you being able to use your psychic powers, yet now we have Blood Angel Librarians in dreadnoughts?

Is the Astral Claw thing the precedent you're referring to?

Off the top of my head I can't think any reason why being interred would inhibit the mind or its ability to manipulate the soul.

Nazguire
10-08-2010, 11:02
It didn't say. It just suggests that the sarcophagus prevents one from doing it. Due to concentration I'd say. I'd imagine with psychic powers you'd need a fair bit of your brain to concentrate and pull the required power out of the Warp. I can imagine with the trauma of being interred, coupled with eventual Dreadnought 'senility', utlising psychic powers aren't as easy as people think they'd be.

Devastator
10-08-2010, 13:30
I have options for a force commander, chaplain, and librarian dreadnought. Post 80, I think.[/shameless plug]
there is no such rank as force commander

geeksquared
10-08-2010, 13:45
From what I remember, there was an Astral Claw that was placed inside a Dreadnought sarcophagus with no limbs, no way of hibernation etc etc who was psychic. And he wasn't able to use his powers at all.


If memory serves that was an inferno story and he was placed in the dreadnought as a punishment for attempted mutiny. Its not unreasonable to think that they put some kind of psychic ward or suppressor in there with him to enhance the torment.

I don't see why a librarian shouldn't be able to use his psychic powers from inside a dreadnought. After all, his brain is still intact. Think about Inquisitor Ravenor. His support chair is basically the same as a dreadnought sarcophagus without the huge armoured walker built around it and he can use his powers just fine.

MajorWesJanson
10-08-2010, 14:38
It didn't say. It just suggests that the sarcophagus prevents one from doing it. Due to concentration I'd say. I'd imagine with psychic powers you'd need a fair bit of your brain to concentrate and pull the required power out of the Warp. I can imagine with the trauma of being interred, coupled with eventual Dreadnought 'senility', utlising psychic powers aren't as easy as people think they'd be.

On the other hand, not having to worry about the physical body and using ones mind to control a Dreadnought exo-body helps with focus and concentration. Look at Ravenor. He's a Librarian in a box, and it made him stronger.

As for flying Dreadnoughts, just have the Librarian use his powers to reduce the effective weight of the dreadnought to near nil. Then it can jump. Or simple levitation.

Chem-Dog
10-08-2010, 14:44
So, how are Librarian Dreadnoughts meant to work? There is precedence that being locked inside one of those things will stop you being able to use your psychic powers, yet now we have Blood Angel Librarians in dreadnoughts?

I would argue that it wasn't a president, the individual in question with the Astral Claws/Red Corsairs story was shoved into a Sarcophagus as a final cruel punishment, locked in the box with no external stimulus (and probably none of the proper rites and protocols for interring an individual thus) and left to go quite, quite mad.
As Geeksquared says, it's quite easy to explain away the lack of psychic ability in this instance with some kind of Psy dampener, it's not like the poor guy in the box had any previous experience inside a Dread, so he's hardly likely to be totally clued up on the working details.

Son of Sanguinius
10-08-2010, 16:58
there is no such rank as force commander

It's a general title, as my fandex is usable to represent all Space Marine Chapters.

MacMortal
10-08-2010, 17:47
:D

Apothecary Dreadnought: "We must perform surgery! Hand me the scalpel!"
Apothecary Initiate: "How, my lord?"
Apothecary Dreadnought: "Weld it on, foolish novice. And find my WD-40."

LOL, you know what. For some reason I can really see that!

Devastator
10-08-2010, 18:11
It's a general title, as my fandex is usable to represent all Space Marine Chapters.
only da dont use captain tittle so wtf

Lord Malorne
10-08-2010, 18:22
Its a fandex, what is your problem?

TrooperTino
10-08-2010, 18:33
In the Ultramarine series, the techmarine in a dread there...

...had his old workshop rebuild to let him fit in and work there after becoming a dread.
I think a techmarine, librarian or even assaultdread would be so cool, but when you start imagine how they are going on in their old position.... nah... that don't work for me.

Son of Sanguinius
10-08-2010, 18:51
only da dont use captain tittle so wtf

Generic, comrade. Generic to allow for accommodation. Come give it a read.


Its a fandex, what is your problem?

You too. ;)


In the Ultramarine series, the techmarine in a dread there...

...had his old workshop rebuild to let him fit in and work there after becoming a dread.
I think a techmarine, librarian or even assaultdread would be so cool, but when you start imagine how they are going on in their old position.... nah... that don't work for me.

Does anyone have any actual reference for Dreadnought sarcophagi impeding the use of psychic powers?

Sunfang
10-08-2010, 20:18
I really like the idea actually. Especially for Iron Hands. It makes sense...

Gamewise though i dont see why they would be any different to warrant anything special unless it where to go into an Iron Hands specific codex.

Fluff wise I think for most things they could utilize servitores via a direct cable or have a harness outside of their normal placement that could be controlled by the techmarine within the dreadnaught. Biggest problem would be the sleep requirements for a Dread's pilot/victim. He just simply wouldnt utilize a shop because he would be sleeping all of the time.

AndrewGPaul
10-08-2010, 21:51
there is no such rank as force commander

Force commander in this instance appears to be a mission role, not a rank. Depending on the size of the mission, the force commander could be the Chapter Master, a Captain or Librarian or even a Sergeant.

Assuming "only da dont use captain tittle so wtf" is secret code for "only Dark Angels don't use the title 'Captain'", it's incorrect. The Space Wolves use the title Wolf Lord, and the Raven Guard have Shadow Captains. There may be others.

Son of Sanguinius, Lord Malone was defending you from the ill-written comments from Devastator, not having a go. :)

Son of Sanguinius
10-08-2010, 23:28
Force commander in this instance appears to be a mission role, not a rank. Depending on the size of the mission, the force commander could be the Chapter Master, a Captain or Librarian or even a Sergeant.

Assuming "only da dont use captain tittle so wtf" is secret code for "only Dark Angels don't use the title 'Captain'", it's incorrect. The Space Wolves use the title Wolf Lord, and the Raven Guard have Shadow Captains. There may be others.

Son of Sanguinius, Lord Malone was defending you from the ill-written comments from Devastator, not having a go. :)

I know. :) I was recommending that he go see the fandex.

PostinDirty
11-08-2010, 00:18
Does anyone have any actual reference for Dreadnought sarcophagi impeding the use of psychic powers?
not proof as such, but a series of fluff points presented at least as far back as 2nd ed (probably in rogue trader when they first introduced them), and is some thing Col. Tartleton was referring to as well - that dreads are put to sleep between engagements, kept in suspended animation, and often take ages to awake. the lack of this is what has left chaos dreads insane.

as a result of this and the nature of being interred into to the sarcophagus, the marines inside were said to be barely lucid, and often a bit senile as well.

its because of these factors, you couldn't really imagine they'd consider putting a psyker into these conditions, considering even a fully conscious librarian is constantly keeping himself in check in order to not become the next daemon infestation down in the chapter lavatory.

i actually rambled all this in the GK rumour thread the other day :S...

so its not so much that the inclusion of lib dreads was previously forbidden in the fluff, it just didn't make sense to have them

Son of Sanguinius
11-08-2010, 01:50
I've never really understood the whole psyker's minds are awake while sleeping thing. Sleeping is as much a mental necessity as it is a physical one, and short of some type of hand-wavy psychological and physical training, your body doesn't gain the full benefits of sleep if your mind is conscious. Even if the mind's defenses are down while asleep, this doesn't affect Dreadnought-encased Librarians anymore than regular Librarians, does it?

PostinDirty
11-08-2010, 02:58
having never been near death and then chucked into a giant robot suit, nor been a conduit for ethereal energies and daemonic forces, i can't really state how similar my state of unconscious would be in sleep or out :s

now that's out of the way - i guess a bit more research may be called for, but i'll argue that a state of dementia or a lack of cognition =/= sleep, irrespective on how psykers control their abilities when they need to go beddy-byes (perhaps a new background topic needs to be started?)

ignoring the concept of sleep, what WAS established in the fluff was that psykers needed to be delicately trained, and constantly attended to, in case they ever lost control of their abilities.

dreads seem capable of little more than spinning a yarn for the new recruits, or runnign through an enemy fortification guns blazing.

Sunfang
12-08-2010, 02:33
not proof as such, but a series of fluff points presented at least as far back as 2nd ed (probably in rogue trader when they first introduced them), and is some thing Col. Tartleton was referring to as well - that dreads are put to sleep between engagements, kept in suspended animation, and often take ages to awake. the lack of this is what has left chaos dreads insane.

as a result of this and the nature of being interred into to the sarcophagus, the marines inside were said to be barely lucid, and often a bit senile as well.

not its because of these factors, you couldn't really imagine they'd consider putting a psyker into these conditions, considering even a fully conscious librarian is constantly keeping himself in check in order to not become the next daemon infestation down in the chapter lavatory.

i actually rambled all this in the GK rumour thread the other day :S...

so its not so much that the inclusion of lib dreads was previously forbidden in the fluff, it just didn't make sense to have them

I agree 100%

Wyrmwood
12-08-2010, 03:59
Besides 'Devastator' (Of Manners) - tongue in cheek - Force Commander was once a rank, or an honourary rank at least in 3rd Edition.