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View Full Version : Time for a new 8th ed. Army... Which should it be?



Desalbert
10-08-2010, 00:35
Alright, so I have a fair few armies already (Being O&G, Bretts, and a mere 1000 point Ogre army which I do not think I will expand). It should be said that I am 'attracted' to a lot of different things when choosing an army, but that they're not always must-haves either. So I have my eye on three armies in particular: They are High Elves, Dwarfs, or Daemons. So I'm just going to be as candid as I can about my interests, and go through a list of things I admire and my current situations... Following that, if you would kindly help me decide on this matter, that would be super tubular, as I am indecisive, and some of my likes are conflicted. (And I may need some tips and viewpoints I haven't considered in view of my likes...

Things that may sway my army choice

I'm intrigued by the imagery and concept of stalwart defenders; fighting the bitter fight against inevitability, the heroic final chapters of a life, a people, a city etc. This battle against despair is more interesting than the rising star of humanity, say

However, I also adore the notion of being evil-- and always have. Especially intellectually evil; where you're not just out to destroy, but to manipulate, theive, gain advantages over, dominate, harrasss-- I like the notion of building an evil empire say... (Are Daemons THIS kind of evil, or are they mindless in their pursuits?)

I prefer an elite-sized fighting force (such is why Skaven is so hard to swallow and looks to be a poor choice for me)

I enjoy ranged weapons first and foremost, and war machines secondly-- I don't mind having weaker troops that must overcome unlikely odds

I would prefer high leadership in the face of evil, than being immune to all psychologies

I want to have to work tactically for my wins

I find the High Elf models to be breathtaking, the Dwarf to be great, and the Daemons to be solid, if not spectacular.

I am for some reason put-off by any army which I would be considered a "band -wagoner" for choosing.

I have two boxes of older Beast Herds with which I wonder whether or not they could be made into Blood letters (believably) with what comes in the box

I also bought a box of daemonettes about 7 months ago when I saw them cheaply

I admire the elegance of the elves, and their poetic ways, and focus on emotion more so than the gruffness of the bearded ones; but I also appreciate Dwarven grudges and greed, and some of their mentality (Especially finding inspiration in their battle with Skaven)

I enjoy magic, but I do have it in my other armies, so, do Dwarven runes make for a fun alternative, or is there really no substitute for missing that whole phase and the fun of spell casting?

I'm a mediocre painter and would prefer something that has a chance to look passably pleasant despite my low skills.

I really have a problem playing as on Overpowered army. Should I worry about what I hear about High Elves being potentially overpowered? And what of Daemons, and Dwarfs? Do you worry about power levels?

Finally, my gaming group consists of a VC army, an Empire, a Lizarrdmen, a Warriors of Chaos (who prefers to play Hordes of Chaos when he rarely does play), alongside my O&G, OK, and Bretts, which I lend out to whomever desires to join us.[/SIZE]
I know this was super super long and mostly based on imagery and background, but to anyone who actually read all this, I applaud you; and offer you this humble cookie in the shape of a cheese-face: :cheese:

As said, it is quite a humble cookie.

But really, thankyou! :D

SamVimes
10-08-2010, 00:37
...Dark Elves?

Desalbert
10-08-2010, 00:40
That is a really good point Sam; only problem is that I find their current model range to be really ugly :( Especially their hero models

Ultimate Life Form
10-08-2010, 00:54
Things that may sway my army choice

I'm intrigued by the imagery and concept of stalwart defenders; fighting the bitter fight against inevitability, the heroic final chapters of a life, a people, a city etc. This battle against despair is more interesting than the rising star of humanity, say

This sounds very much like Dwarves, but also High Elves to an extent (Daemons not obviously as they are in no danger of dying out anytime soon.)

However, I also adore the notion of being evil-- and always have. Especially intellectually evil; where you're not just out to destroy, but to manipulate, theive, gain advantages over, dominate, harrasss-- I like the notion of building an evil empire say... (Are Daemons THIS kind of evil, or are they mindless in their pursuits?)

All I say is... Tzeentch.

I prefer an elite-sized fighting force (such is why Skaven is so hard to swallow and looks to be a poor choice for me)

Pretty much all fill that bill.

I enjoy ranged weapons first and foremost, and war machines secondly-- I don't mind having weaker troops that must overcome unlikely odds

Dwarves will satisfy all your war machine needs and can support this with lots of bullets, while HE are a bit on the weak side here. Daemons will have to do without shooting (except you go flamers heavy).

I would prefer high leadership in the face of evil, than being immune to all psychologies

Leadership isn't a problem for any of these armies, but HE seem to be the weakest of the three in this department (incredible but true).

I want to have to work tactically for my wins

This pretty much excludes Dwarves (their only tactical moment is the question where to point the cannon next). Daemons pretty much let their special rules do the work for them. HE will have to bleed for their victories.

I find the High Elf models to be breathtaking, the Dwarf to be great, and the Daemons to be solid, if not spectacular.

Go for the awesome, it's the best strategy to ensure your long-term entertainment.

I am for some reason put-off by any army which I would be considered a "band -wagoner" for choosing.

I think neither Dwarves nor High Elves are in any danger of that. Daemons have been all the rage lately, but that may settle down a bit now that the new edition clipped their claws.

I have two boxes of older Beast Herds with which I wonder whether or not they could be made into Blood letters (believably) with what comes in the box

Not believably... but they could be Beasts of Chaos (oh GW, why have you destroyed them? :cries:)

I also bought a box of daemonettes about 7 months ago when I saw them cheaply

Well this fact alone should not be the deciding factor.

I admire the elegance of the elves, and their poetic ways, and focus on emotion more so than the gruffness of the bearded ones; but I also appreciate Dwarven grudges and greed, and some of their mentality (Especially finding inspiration in their battle with Skaven)

Shadow Warriors are Elves with grudges - maybe that's what you want?

I enjoy magic, but I do have it in my other armies, so, do Dwarven runes make for a fun alternative, or is there really no substitute for missing that whole phase and the fun of spell casting?

The only thing that runes do is ruin the magic fun for your opponent as well.

I'm a mediocre painter and would prefer something that has a chance to look passably pleasant despite my low skills.

Daemons should be able to tolerate pretty much any botchery and still look credible.

I really have a problem playing as on Overpowered army. Should I worry about what I hear about High Elves being potentially overpowered? And what of Daemons, and Dwarfs? Do you worry about power levels?

Daemons are the strongest, the rest should be somewhere in the middle.

Finally, my gaming group consists of a VC army, an Empire, a Lizarrdmen, a Warriors of Chaos (who prefers to play Hordes of Chaos when he rarely does play), alongside my O&G, OK, and Bretts, which I lend out to whomever desires to join us.

The majority of these armies is very vulnerable to shooting, so if you're looking for an antidote Dwarves would be the way to go.




Now hand me that cookie.

Desalbert
10-08-2010, 01:00
Damn! Thanks ULF! That was quite in depth and massively appreciated! Save for a few things I'd say I'm now leaning High Elves as my current #1, Dwarves as my #2, and Daemons a distant third based on your views. I should note too that I am considering Dark Elves (except I dislike their models)

Here, sir, is your cookie, located below. Thank you very kindly!

Any other opinions out there? :D

SamVimes
10-08-2010, 01:01
There is always the option of, gasp, taking Dogs of War.

You'll definitely have to fight for your wins. There's enough variety in the army to fulfill most of your requirements. Cannons, check. Magic (with two lord level casters that are merely heroes (or rare) double check. Being able to use some random models you happen to have, check. Mutable enough background that you can make them as evil or friendly as you like. Check again. The only iffy bit is they aren't exactly fighting on the brink of racial destruction.

Desalbert
10-08-2010, 01:39
There is always the option of, gasp, taking Dogs of War.

You'll definitely have to fight for your wins. There's enough variety in the army to fulfill most of your requirements. Cannons, check. Magic (with two lord level casters that are merely heroes (or rare) double check. Being able to use some random models you happen to have, check. Mutable enough background that you can make them as evil or friendly as you like. Check again. The only iffy bit is they aren't exactly fighting on the brink of racial destruction.

I certainly appreciate the suggestion, and its a rather thoughtful and optimistic one-- but the manner in which GW has treated the DoW (as less than a mainstream race, to say the least-- unsuppourted is a better word) leads me to feel as though this simply isn't an option for me-- Thanks for your second input though, highly appreciated :]

SamVimes
10-08-2010, 01:46
Yeah, that is unfortunate and I can certainly understand any hesitancy in starting what is a woefully forgotten army.

Of the 3 you seem to be eyeing, I think High Elves would probably make you happiest.

Venkh
10-08-2010, 02:01
Of the 3 armies mentioned I would say that Dwarfs are the strongest. The HE have a stronger build available (Teclis/BoH) but Dwarfs are stronger overall.

They can resist magic well. Their warmachines and shooting capability is awesome and their brutal beyond imagintion melee units are going to be seeing combat. I was saying the other day that everyone remembers the time they got stuck in melee with a dwarf combat unit. Now thats going to EVERY game and it wont be pretty!

The power of Demons is still dropping as players of other armies adapt to 8th ed and optimise their lists. The problem Demons have is that their expensive core troops are rubbish without their expensive, often vulnerable heralds. None of the special choices are really all that good any more either. Rares are where the action is but the 25% cap restricts your options.

I would say that the best army for you from your description is Dark Elves However, as you dont like the models you can either play High Elves or DE with HE models as a proxy.

stuntyKing
10-08-2010, 03:13
All three are very fine choices for an army in 8th, but out of the three i'd say either go with HE or Dwarfs due to your preferences.

Dwarfs

for the missing of the magic phase for dwarfs, its a big deal sure but i wouldn't let it concern you too too much. Your war machines should keep your mind off the silly stuff any who!:P Runes are cool, and a way to make unique items, but as ULF said, to much magic defense can ruin fun for your opponent as well. that's why i only ever take one rune smith. Combat oriented dwarfs are not more viable, so we don't have to resort to all out gun lines anymore. Also i find there fluff amazing and half the reason why i play them.

High elves

I find there a more tactical army then dwarfs are, and can easily maneuver around the battlefield. There magics very fun, and they can easily make use of the new tasty lores in the BRB. They are just fine in combat due to there newly found ability to re-roll hits in most combats. They lack some shooting however ( compared to dwarfs at least), but elven archers and the RBT still pack a decent hit, not to mention magic missiles. there lore is also well written, and should be fun to play with and against in most situations.

freebooter
10-08-2010, 03:32
Chaos Dwaves dedicated to Tzeentch?
Especially with the new horror minis out, should be able to knock together a force reasonably cheaply. And I mean, the new horrors aren't that bad... ;)

Ryan814
10-08-2010, 03:41
What about Wood Elves? in the secret war they are clearly the under-dogs with the sheer number of beast men. They aren't goody goody at all, I mean between the wild hunt every year and some of their other actions I'd say they can be quite violent and brutal when called upon to do so. They have good range units including heros who will primarily use ranged attacks which is kind of unique. I myself recently stated to paint up a small force of Wood Elves and the more I read their fluff and play small games with them the more I appreciate them as an army.

You won't really be a band wagon jumper either, not currently anyways start now and you can get in on it before all the new army book jumpers hop on board in 2030 :)

The way I see it Wood Elves meet more of your conditions than any other army out there.

Thats gotta hurt
10-08-2010, 17:14
Sounds like i'm in the same boat as you desalbert, I always seem to find myself drawn to WOC. I like the idea of overpowering the enemy with hero's and elites and smashing them up, but it sounds like they may not be able to do this so easy in 8th.

I would like to turn to Empire of High elves, but can either of their army generals really dish it out? Without using special characters (personally i feel these should only be used for big occasional battles) I need my army general to be one tough mother!

Bassik
10-08-2010, 18:49
@ ULF: The combination of green and red letters on a black background made me 'ead hurt and gave the illusion of 3D. Anyone else saw this? The red letters floated out of the screen :eek:

@Desalbert: Seems to me you would enjoy High Elves the most. Plus have you seen the Isle of Blood mini's? Those are awesome. And High Elf generals are excellent warriors on their own, but they can take powerfull monsters as their mounts, including dragons, to crank it up to the eleven.

In the end it's your decision affcorse, and I hope you find what you are looking for, smiley face.

Malorian
10-08-2010, 18:54
My vote:

Run a dark elve army using high elve models (traitor high elves).

Paint the models more of a black and purple rather than a white and blue and I can't see many people having any problems.

You would just have to do some conversion work for things like crossbowmen.

Lord Inquisitor
10-08-2010, 18:59
How about Skaven? Sneaky, intelligent (sometimes), evil - lots of war machines?

Sand
10-08-2010, 19:11
I'd recommend Dwarfs or, depending on how much you want to convert, Chaos Dwarfs. Because they seem to fit your criteria very well.
Also, I wouldn't say Dwarfs are non-tactical anymore. They're much more able to take the initiative in 8th what with increased charge ranges and the possibility of fast reforms. Sure, it's not gonna be about rushing forward, but dwarfs are much more able to pick their battles now. Plus, Dwarven Warriors with Great Weapons are just awesome on every conceivable level :)

marakaelis
10-08-2010, 19:36
My vote:

Run a dark elve army using high elve models (traitor high elves).

Paint the models more of a black and purple rather than a white and blue and I can't see many people having any problems.

You would just have to do some conversion work for things like crossbowmen.

Brilliant Idea. Was the first that came to my thoughts too.

Though some Dark Elf models are just ******* awesome if you want my opinion:

Corsairs, Shades, Witch Elves, Hydra, Assassins, Characters and Bolt Thrower are just brilliant, I think.

Black Guard could be substituted with Phoenix Guard (just wait a bit so you can get new plastic ones (at least, thats what I hope will appear soon)).
Executioners -- Sword Masters (from the new starter)
Warriors : use Lothern Seaguard / Spear Elves (from the new starter)
Dark Riders : use the Use the High Elf Reavers (from the new starter)

In this regard, just get two or three of the new starter sets, trade the Skaven and the Griffon, and you have a great start.

tbdehart
10-08-2010, 22:02
So basically you want an army that has magic, elite troops, valiant fluff, range, and tactical superiority... But isn't overpowered? Beastmen! (except for the whole tactical superiority part...)

Paraelix
10-08-2010, 22:26
My suggestion would be Dwarves. Unlike ULFs assessment, Dwarves can be highly tactical- provided you don't go for the Cannons-on-hill-surrounded-by-thunderers list.

Using Slayer characters to tie up small units. Positioning warmachines for best effect. Using sneaky runes like- Charge me or Flee!, or I dispel your spell and break it, or I take your power dice and add it to my pool. The Anvil of Doom provides more flexibility also... You can potentially be in combat in turn 1 using rangers, the Strollaz Rune and the Anvil :D

Background/army wise. You are a stalwart, tough, mid-size army that is beset on all sides by enemies. Orcs, Goblins and Skaven have captured your mines... You hold old grudges with the Elves... The Empire appear to have forgotten you... Chaos want everything dead... You are a dying race, attempting to scavenge what little you can of past-age glories.

Also, the models are quite nice and it is easy to get a nice, simple paint job... Lots of metallic armour/weapons.

Desalbert
10-08-2010, 23:35
These are some super great suggestions so far-- The Dark Elves using High Elves one is intriguing indeed, and I'd love to see any army done this way; but I myself think I'll shy away from that for now, and limit my choice between Dwarfs and High Elves (and possibly Wood elves, depending)-- so Daemons and DE in any flavour are out of the race...

I was pretty close to convinced that High Elves would be my most enjoyed choice, and I am somewhat considering WE (though my brother has a small force of woodies he rarely plays but is for some reason loathe to sell me them), but Paraelix, my friend, your dwarven description has made me do a double take and look at the beardies much more closely.

Any other thoughts to sway me between HE or Dwarfs would be much much appreciated. Is the HE power level really mid-tier or are they a beastly army now?

and Tbdehart-- while I see some connection to beastman; I certainly do not see the whole Valiant fluff bit :P (Thanks though :) )

tbdehart
11-08-2010, 00:08
One things for sure. You wouldn't be jumping on the bandwagon!

Paraelix
11-08-2010, 00:22
It is hard to say what is what in "tiers" (a term I dislike). There hasn't been enough of a chance for people to work out the kinks in the new edition... All armies have improved greatly, but its hard to say which sit above others... Different lists and different players will always contribute greatly to the level of ones' army.

theDregs
11-08-2010, 02:12
I didn't know Dogs of War were still allowed. They me just what I need to get exactly the army i want to play. Where do I find the rules for them?

Kneedles
12-08-2010, 15:31
I play Dwarfs as my first army, ever since 5th edition.
A standard issue dwarf warrior with great weapon is 10 points. Rather inexpensive.
Everything in the army is Ld 9 except slayers, special characters and the dwarf lord choice.
Str 5 stonethrowers. Awesome.
Rangers as better scouts then shadow warriors.
Not having wizards gives you more points to spend on troops.
Miners are only 1 more point then GW warriors and can deploy normally or come in from a table edge.
Hammerers are stubborn ld9 for 12 points. Amazing. Longbeards are 13 points but are core.

Disadvantages of High Elves include everything is T3, many more skaven and HE players with Isle of Blood coming out, and if you use Teclis people will whine because he is broken. Which he is.

If you go High Elves get lots of white lions and Phoenix guard, put Caradryn in the white lions and Korhil in the phoenix guard.

Col. Tartleton
12-08-2010, 18:13
Wait until the new High Elf stuff comes out later this year before you start buying stuff. If its as good as I think it will be there you go.