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Primogenitus
11-08-2010, 23:12
Hey, with the release of 8th edition I'm in the proces of rebuilding my WoC army. Considering the new approach to the creation of army lists, I've decided to shake it up quite a bit and even changed patron from my long time favourite Slaanesh to Tzeentch.

While I'm relatively set on which units to include, I'm really at a loss when it comes to characters and their equipment. I'm constantly changing set-ups going from Chaos Lord to Daemon Prince to Sorceror Lord and back again. I just can't seem to settle on something I'm happy with. Now, I'm not only after what's the most competetive, but also what looks best within the army. After pondering for ages and toying around with army builder I've come up with two different set-ups that I'm torn between. I would greatly appreciate any help on which of the following I should go for so I can get on with assembling and painting.

Please note that I've only played two games of 8th so these builds are (almost) entirely based on theory. I'm aiming for a 2500 pts army.

#1 Chaos Lord

Lord of Tzeentch - 310pts *Goes in unit of Chosen*
- Sword of Anti Heroes
- Charmed Shield
- Talisman of Endurance
- Book of Secrets (Lore of Death or Fire)

Exalted of Tzeentch (BSB) - 219pts *Goes in unit of Warriors*
- Additional Hand Weapon
- Talisman of Preservation
- Ironcurse Icon
- Stream of Corruption

Sorcerer of Tzeentch (lvl 2) - 200pts
- Disc of Tzeentch
- Spell Familiar
- Golden Eye of Tzeentch

Sorcerer of Death (lvl 1) - 160pts *Goes in unit of Warriors*
- Enchanted Shield
- Infernal Puppet
- Third Eye of Tzeentch

#2 Sorcerer Lord

Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch (lvl 4) - 395pts
- Disc of Tzeentch
- Biting Blade
- Spellshield
- Infernal Puppet
- Golden Eye of Tzeentch

Exalted of Tzeentch (BSB) - 219pts *Goes in unit of Warriors*
- Additional Hand Weapon
- Talisman of Preservation
- Ironcurse Icon
- Stream of Corruption

Exalted of Tzeentch - 170pts *Goes in unit of Chosen*
- Sword of Anti Heroes
- Charmed Shield
- Opal Amulet

Phew, this is becoming longer than intended so if you're still reading, congrats :D Anyway, my army will also include the following units, slightly adjusted depending on which set of characters I'll settle on.

- 18-20 Warriors of Tzeentch (HW+Shields)
- 25-30 Marauders of Tzeentch (HW+Shields)
- 30 Marauders of Khorne (Great weapons)
- 12 Chosen of Tzeentch (Halberds+Shields)
- 6 Knights of Tzeentch
- Warshrine of Tzeencth
- Hellcannon

So that's it. Any questions/suggestions/alternatives are more than welcome. Many thanks in advance :)

Rochr
12-08-2010, 00:52
List number two with the lv4 sorcerer... because... well it is a lv4 sorc :)

I would probably not bother with Biting Blade and would probably give him either Enchanted Shield instead of Spell Shield or even Crimson Armour of Dargan if I am facing alot of cannons.

BSB looks fine.

Other hero also looks fine tbh.

Roark
12-08-2010, 05:57
Option 2.

The BSB is a good build in general, though.

teleologica
12-08-2010, 13:34
Nice army.

I prefer option 2 though 1's not bad.

If you're going to go with a disc L4 though, he needs to be better protected than this build. Rochr is right - something to protect against warmachines is a must. Enchanted shield, an improvement to his ward, something to deny wound multipliers, or all of the above.

Primogenitus
16-08-2010, 00:20
Thanks for the replies, guys. Much appreciated. Perhaps I should add that the armies I'll likely face are Vampire Counts, Beastmen, High Elves, Empire and Dwarfs. Neither Empire or Dwarfs field gunlines although they'll include a few warmachines.


List number two with the lv4 sorcerer... because... well it is a lv4 sorc :)

I would probably not bother with Biting Blade and would probably give him either Enchanted Shield instead of Spell Shield or even Crimson Armour of Dargan if I am facing alot of cannons.

BSB looks fine.

Other hero also looks fine tbh.

Yeah, that +5 to cast/+4 to dispel is really to good to pass up, isn't it? Even gateway will be relatively easy to cast. I'll swap Spellshield for Enchanted Shield. I think I'll leave the Crimson Armour at home for the time being as I'm not going to be facing that many cannons although the first time my sorcerer takes a cannonball to the face I'll most likely regret it :D Biting Blade is merely there as a way to deal with wraiths and the like. Perhaps I'll swap it for Warrior Bane.


Nice army.

I prefer option 2 though 1's not bad.

If you're going to go with a disc L4 though, he needs to be better protected than this build. Rochr is right - something to protect against warmachines is a must. Enchanted shield, an improvement to his ward, something to deny wound multipliers, or all of the above.

Isn't the Golden Eye the best way to protect him from ranged attacks? Granted I could give him Talisman of Preservation in order to protect him from a broader array of spells. Of course I'd have to equipment my BSB a bit different then. Hmmm... I'll have to think about that.

Crimson Armour really is the only way to deny wound multipliers but means I have to drop Enchanted Shield which will leave him with a 3+/3+ save. A bit too vulnerable to massed bowfire and the like or am I just being paranoid?

Lungboy
16-08-2010, 09:10
Isn't Tzeentch on Knights a bit of a waste?

eyescrossed
16-08-2010, 09:29
Why would it be?

PeG
16-08-2010, 09:55
One of my opponents have been using an unmarked lvl4 with good effects. This lets him take lore of shadow or death from the rule book and get access to a few really nasty spells.

Lungboy
16-08-2010, 09:56
They can't parry when mounted, so it's just a 6++ save isn't it? It seems that Nurgle would give them more protection.

eyescrossed
16-08-2010, 10:21
They can't parry when mounted, so it's just a 6++ save isn't it? It seems that Nurgle would give them more protection.

How so? Against shooting, I guess (not things that don't use BS) but in combat most thing will be hitting on a 4+ anyway.

Lungboy
16-08-2010, 10:24
Knights cause fear, so anything that fails will be at WS0 when attacking Nurgle Knights, so won't be able to hit them at all.

eyescrossed
16-08-2010, 10:36
Knights cause fear, so anything that fails will be at WS0 when attacking Nurgle Knights, so won't be able to hit them at all.

No. I can't remember what page it's on, but in the rulebook it says that regardless of negative modifiers a roll of 6 to Hit will always hit.

Lungboy
16-08-2010, 10:38
But it also says that people with BS0 are so rubbish at shooting they don't even get to shoot. This would seem to overrule the "6's always hit".

eyescrossed
16-08-2010, 10:39
Does it say it with Weapon Skill, though?

Look, there was a huge rules debate a few weeks ago. It's unclear what actually happens.

EDIT: With the unmodified To Hit thing, it says it for CC, not Shooting.

Lungboy
16-08-2010, 10:56
Ah ok, if there's an ongoing debate about it it's best to err on the side of it not working as i said. Ignoring that, i'd think that -1 to shoot the unit would provide more benefit than a 6+ ward. For a 5 man unit, a 6+ ward is likely to never save a single model, whereas -1 to hit could prevent an awful lot of shots from hitting. It could also make a unit like Skink Skirmishers need a 7 to hit, which would prevent their posion from working.

eyescrossed
17-08-2010, 08:26
Yeah, depends on your preferences I guess.

Conjoy
17-08-2010, 08:46
With the sheer power of magic, especially from some armies, I must say I think a good option is the Spell Staff and its +1 to dispel. With this, a Lvl Tz Sorc is adding +6 to dispels which is just devastating to a lot of armies.
I also agree that if you have a lvl 4 you no longer need an additional caster.

The only time I would consider using a melee lord now is against Dwarfs - they just have too much magic defense to be worth trying to penetrate.

Rochr
17-08-2010, 12:02
With the sheer power of magic, especially from some armies, I must say I think a good option is the Spell Staff and its +1 to dispel. With this, a Lvl Tz Sorc is adding +6 to dispels which is just devastating to a lot of armies.
I also agree that if you have a lvl 4 you no longer need an additional caster.

The only time I would consider using a melee lord now is against Dwarfs - they just have too much magic defense to be worth trying to penetrate.

Tzeentchian sorcerers only add +1 to their roll when casting spells, not when they are dispelling them. So he can only get +5 to dispel ever.

LordoftheBrassThrone
08-09-2010, 10:23
stats that already have a value, such as WS, can never be reduced to 0, unless the rules for that item/spell etc state that they can i think. im only going off memory, dont have the rulebook to hand, but im pretty sure, therefore as WS will always be at least 1, they will be hitting on 5s, unless its someone like archaon (opponents are at -1 to hit).
mark if tzeentch for a unit of knights is 20points? (sorry also from memory, and i dont do tzeentch) if it saves a single knight from death, it has paid for itself twice over. awesome upgrade IMO, always go for it unless you want a different specific mark.

Lungboy
08-09-2010, 10:31
There's no such rule in the book.

Althwen
08-09-2010, 10:38
As suggested earlier, I would try an unmarked lvl 4. Tzeentch is nice and all but the chaos lores pale in comparison to some of the BRB lores.
And watch out for those buffing spells and hexes especially from the lore of shadows. Units you were sure would prove no difficulty to slay, will suddenly stomp your warriors to the ground when buffed.

There's always the Lord of Chaos with that stubborn crown from the BRB you can try. I faced a DE lord yesterday who singlehandedly tied up one of my 20 man chaoswarrior units including my BSB, for the entire battle!
Of course they have that reverse ward save that protects the ***** out of them, but we should be able to manage the same thing: A lord that is really hard to break even when faced with a 40 man unit!

Col. Custard
08-09-2010, 15:32
They can't parry when mounted, so it's just a 6++ save isn't it? It seems that Nurgle would give them more protection.

But would the bonus stack with the banner that gives them the 5++ vs shooting?

Lungboy
08-09-2010, 16:26
Yes, MoT with Blasted Standard gives a 4++ against all shooting.