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Mage
12-08-2010, 05:41
Hello fellow warriors of chaos players,

I would appreciate some input on my list. To start with, I have little recent experience playing the army. I used to play it with the old book in a semi-competitive club environment, but thats an old army, and an old edition and game. This is more of a 'second incarnation'. That and I never played more than 1500 points with the previous version.

I want an army that can hold its own at a tournament, but not a cheesemongering list that nobody wants to play against. Also a bit of fun, a bit of praticality.

I'll be totally honest though I haven't a clue what I am doing with this list. I roughly know what I want (Trolls, Warshrine), but I think I've come at this from the wrong angle.

I have the following models already: all the Knights, the wizard, the Slaanesh WoC unit. I am not removing these from the list. I bought the models, and I will use them.

I would like to have a Lord, maybe another wizard. The Marauders were put in only to fill up the core requirement points and to be table quarter grabbers. I would also prefer the knigths in too different units, but I think I chose a wrong time of the morning to write the list. I haven't read the new rules a lot either but I am trying to get games in when the chance permits. Shift work makes it hard.


Hero Exalted Champion
Shield
Tzeentch
Battle Standard
Blasted Standard

Hero Chaos Sorcerer
Level 2
Mark of Tzeentch

Core 15 Warriors
Slaanesh
Full Command
Great Weapons
Rapturous Standard

Core 10 Marauders
Mark of Nurgle

Core 10 Marauders
Mark of Nurgle

Core 10 Marauders
Mark of Nurgle

Core 5 Warhounds

Core 5 Warhounds

Special 3 Chaos Trolls

Special 10 Chaos Knights
Full Command
Tzeentch

Special 15 Chosen
Shields
Full Command
Favour of the gods
Tzeentch

Rare Warshrine
Mark of Tzeentch

Ladies & Gentlemen, thank you in advacce.

PS: I might throw in Throg to make the Trolls count as core, that may free up some other points. That and I like the idea of a Troll character. I would need to remove the BSB's shield though to fit him in, but he is near Lord Level (The Troll King) compared to other armies. I dunno, my brain is spaghetti'ed all over the place.

TheKingInYellow
12-08-2010, 18:53
Just my thoughts:

Why waste a combat hero BSB by giving him a magic standard? Blasted standard is great, but put it on your Knights or Warriors, and then gear the BSB for survival, damage or both.

The rapturous standard is nice on an anvil but your Warrior unit is too small for that. I would make them at least 18 or 24 strong. Banner of Rage or Mark of Khorne is also something to really consider on your Knights. They hit like a ton of bricks already, but an extra attack each really makes them horrifying.

MSU of Marauders is just handing over victory points. Make it one unit of 30 so it survives shooting and gets into combat. Nurgle mark is *okay* but both Khorne and Tzeentch are more valuable in my opinion.

10 Knights is brutal, but you are wasting 40 point knights in the second rank. Either drop them to 6 or 7, or maybe two units of five. Yeah they can't disrupt ranks, but you get way more killy-ness for your buck this way, and WoC don't usually out-rank enemies anyhow, so they will still have steadfast. Focus on removing models, not disrupting ranks.

immortal git
12-08-2010, 19:02
tzeentch on the knights isnt great as mounted soldiers cant make a parry save, i personaly love nurgle on my knights with the banner of rage, such a great hammer.

Mage
12-08-2010, 19:16
@TheKingInYellow

Point taken about the battle standard bearer.

With the Marauders, if I were to do a single unit, I would porbably give them flails, light armour, shileds, full command and Mark of Khorne, and bulk up the unit size to a decent horde.

I'll rejig the army list with your input and post the modification when I get it done.

@immortal git
That is a combination I will need to playtest.

Mage
12-08-2010, 20:13
Hero Exalted Hero
Enchanted Shield
Tzeentch
Talisman of protection
Battle Standard

Hero Chaos Sorcerer
Level 2
Mark of Tzeentch

Core 20 Warriors of Chaos
Slaanesh
Full Command
Great Weapons
Rapturous Standard

Core 20 Warriors of Chaos
Tzeentch
Full Command
Shileds, Halberds
Blasted Standard

Special 3 Chaos Trolls

Special 7 Chaos Knights
Full Command
Banner of Rage

Special 15 Chosen
Shields
Full Command
Favour of the gods
Mark of Tzeentch

Rare Warshrine
Mark of Tzeentch

Here is another modified list. Dropped some knights to bulk up the core I was shy for, and toughened up the BSB. Had to drop warhounds. Still 105 over, but hopefully this won't matter if most tournaments go up to 2.250.

popisdead
12-08-2010, 23:18
The BSB isn't outfitted to win any Challenges. The standard isn't very good for a BSB.

Warriors of Slaanesh are not as good as either other mark, and GWs are teh worst option for Warriors. You've taken Init 5 and ignored it. Give them Halberds or Add'l HWs

Make a unit of 30 Marauders w/ GWs maybe.

10 Knights is too big, two units of 5 is better since for 40 PPM you are only getting another single attack from the second ranks models.

I recommend a couple spawn too.

Dreadgrass
13-08-2010, 01:07
@popisdead - he's already said he's not changing the warriors and addressed the Marauder issue.

@OP - the 2nd list is looking much better, a few suggestions though, if I may:


Hero Exalted Hero
Enchanted Shield
Tzeentch
Talisman of protection
Battle Standard
A mundane shield gives you a 6+ parry in combat, so I'd rather suggest you go Shield, Dragonhelm, Opal Amulet. this gives the same save, a 5+ ward in combat, a 2+ ward against flame and a 3+ ward against your first wound from any source... same points too!


Core 20 Warriors of Chaos
Slaanesh
Full Command
Great Weapons
Rapturous Standard
Great weapons are all about killing power and Slaanesh makes them reliable and cheap. That being said, I'd drop the Rapturous standard for probably the Blasted standard for ranged protection to get them into the fight as unscathed as possible since you will loose a few guys on the charge, but with step up and strength 6, you'll still be wrecking most enemy elites.


Core 20 Warriors of Chaos
Tzeentch
Full Command
Shileds, Halberds
Blasted Standard
Good unit, but I think I'd go for the Blasted standard on the slaanesh unit and the Banner of Rage here to really hit home.


Special 7 Chaos Knights
Full Command
Banner of Rage
I'd probably go with 1-2 units of 5 naked knights by preference, they make great flankers and warmachine hunters, also makes them fairly disposable if you need to bog down an enemy unit.


Special 15 Chosen
Shields
Full Command
Favour of the gods
Mark of Tzeentch
I tend to take normal warriors over chosen to fill out core and fit a few more bodies into the list. If you are sticking with these guys however, can I recommend the Razor standard to give them a little more punch?

Just a few tweaks to optimise a few units, hope it helps... Oh! and units of 4 trolls deployed 2x2 are great if you could slip 1 more troll into the list!

Mage
13-08-2010, 10:13
@popisdead

The second list BSB is based on previous input from another poster. He is geared up to protect himself. I do not intend to throw a BSB into challenges needlessly. If I do, it will be into easy wins. Otherwise I will avoid bad situations he will be forced into. Haven't read too much of the new rules yet, but I would make him get out of the unit and into another or cover if the situation allowed it before entering a fight he would lose.

I've already assembled and painted some of those warriors, so I am keeping with the combo with great weapons. There are some situations and combats were strength five, even with a warrior, is not enough to crack and enemy, and this is what they are for.

I would like Marauders in the unit, and I agree with splitting up the knights form the original list too, but am finding it hard to do with all the points to put around. And I hate spawn in a WoC army. Not sure why, I just think they belong more in a Beasts army or Daemons than in the warriors book.

@Dreadgrass

Thanks for all the useful advice, reading through the army list, and spending the time to come up with all those tweaks.

The BSB combo is very good, I would have never come up with that by myself. I will try that out. Cheers.

Thanks for listing the good points on the gw Slaanesh guys. I wasn't sure exactly about how I had put my banners into different units. I will try it this way in a few games, for both the Slaanesh warriors and Tzeentch ones.

When you say naked knights, do you mean without marks, or without marks and without command? I have serioues been thinking of dropping the command group to save on points and to include that all important second unit.

The chosen are a bit of an experiment that I am not sure about yet. They could be fun, that is why I put them in, but the points could be well spent elsewhere. Looks like I could always do a list without them. They have the 'shiny new thing' factor that makes me want to test them in some games and get a feel for them. That and rolling on the eye of the gods table is fun when you can't roll 'eye is closed' or that one that causes mental disabilities, I mean stupidity

I could always squeez in another troll too. It sounds like a good idea.

immortal git
13-08-2010, 12:51
its not a case of throwing him into challenges, he has to issue one.

Dreadgrass
13-08-2010, 13:05
Your welcome Mage, always good to help out!

To be honest, the BSB combo is the main one I use, but I also add the Book of secrets and single-dice the signature shadow spell to weaken the enemy or cut down the enemy dispel pool.

When I say naked knights, I mean stark-butt naked! no command, no mark (though slaanesh or Tzeentch can be cheap for decent returns if you must), no lances. Means you can squeeze a little more into a fairly elite list, and they can still perform their main roles quite well plus be somewhat expendable.

My main reasoning for the banner changes:

Slaanesh with GW : Rapturous standard is an anvil banner, you want your Great weapon wavers either maximising their attacks (Banner of Rage) or getting as many models lasting to reach combat as possible (Blasted Standard)

Tzeentch Halberdiers: I love this unit. 20x Warriors with Banner of Rage, Halberds, Mark of Tzeentch, and your BSB (shields are a nice extra to hold off arrows) I start them 7x3 and adjust to maximise frontage against whatever they look to be facing. Thats 3 strength 5 attacks per front ranker, 5 from the BSB (thanks to the banner) plus the support attacks...

Knights: Your unit of 7 with command and banner could be turned into 9 by dropping upgrades, find a few more points and thats 2 units of 5

Chosen: These guys are really up to you, I'd just be a bit concerned with your lack of numbers... I always loved the idea of chosen, but whenever I've fielded them I've always sort of felt a warrior block could do the same job...

If you'd like to see where I'm coming from, I've got an armylist I'm in the middle of tweaking on here...

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270692

I use some similar units to you, so it might be of some help I hope...