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Kurgash
12-08-2010, 14:29
Talked to a few gentlemen that get good quality info on upcoming releases and they say Necrons will be after Grey Knights, Matt Ward will be writing the book and that the reason it's taken this long is because he is having trouble making the army play like Necrons after writing both Space Marines and Blood Angels. Take from this what you will but I'm not too thrilled on this as now I know for a fact WBB will cop out to FnP and other non-unique aspects.

Hypaspist
12-08-2010, 14:32
... as now I know for a fact WBB will cop out to FnP and other non-unique aspects.

Do you know this for a fact, or are you just presuming that because a specific writer is in charge of the Codex design that this will happen? (This isn't a dig, I am actually curious :))

Thanks for sharing too :)

Lord Damocles
12-08-2010, 14:35
Take from this what you will but I'm not too thrilled on this as now I know for a fact WBB will cop out to FnP and other non-unique aspects.
Does this mean that your gentlemen said WBB is out in favour of FnP? Or is it just supposition on your part?

If it isn't directly from the gentlemen, what makes you think Mat Ward would replace WBB? The Marine and Blood Angel codeces are groaning with non-universal special rules...



*Adds GDA of salt*

Kurgash
12-08-2010, 14:36
It was more a 'ITS THE END OF A FLUFFY ARMY FEEL!!!!' whine as that was what made my Necrons interesting to play. You knock them over and I stand them back up and your shooting phase was wasted. And I just have this inkling...like 70 or so Necrons on my desk shouting in protest and were suddenly silenced.

PreacherBoyRoy
12-08-2010, 15:05
I see some bad and some good.

Good:
The last codex Matt Ward wrote is not as OTT as it couold have been.
Matt Ward seems to like unique rules. which is a good thing for Necrons IMHO

Bad:
As seen from his track recored the fluff will not be what most Necron players want to see.
I wouldn't be surprise if The Deciever and Dante had a love child.

Alfhedil
12-08-2010, 15:05
Contrary to what some feel, I like some of the fluff in the new SM and BA dexes, and would hope to see the same treatment for the Crons. I am sure everyone would love to hear about a Lord beating an avatar to death with it's fists anyways.

gwarsh41
12-08-2010, 15:10
Contrary to what some feel, I like some of the fluff in the new SM and BA dexes, and would hope to see the same treatment for the Crons. I am sure everyone would love to hear about a Lord beating an avatar to death with it's fists anyways.

New rule!!!
Good armies have fluff that kills avatars!!!

20 avatars will be crushed by a monolith.

TheOneWithNoName
12-08-2010, 15:35
All races want to be like the Necrons, but they cannot. They all look to the Deceiver as their spiritual liege.

gorgon
12-08-2010, 15:53
It was more a 'ITS THE END OF A FLUFFY ARMY FEEL!!!!' whine as that was what made my Necrons interesting to play. You knock them over and I stand them back up and your shooting phase was wasted.

Said it before and I'll say it again. If setting models on sides is the best and fluffiest game mechanic that Necrons have or could have going for them, then they should receive a total do-over at the very least or be abolished as an army at the worst.

In case the tone is lost here, my point is that there's so much more they could be doing with them as a concept, and that setting down models is something people shouldn't cling to as deeply as they do. I suppose people cling to WBB because the army is so dull in so many ways. But with new options and units, more useful units throughout the org chart, expanded *Necron* fluff and a variety of new possible army builds, I imagine people will forget about the old WBB mechanic pretty quickly.

Oh, and if Mat's trying to put more distance between Necron and SM, this Necron player will stand in support of him.

Souleater
12-08-2010, 18:03
It isn't laying down models but the differences in the timing of WBB as opposed to FNP.

Kurgash
12-08-2010, 18:06
Eh I guess I'm more attached the mentality of tons of scraps all over the battlefield from all those games, FnP isn't the change I'd hope for but any update is better than none I guess.

Isstvan
12-08-2010, 18:27
Talked to a few gentlemen that get good quality info on upcoming releases and they say Necrons will be after Grey Knights, Matt Ward will be writing the book and that the reason it's taken this long is because he is having trouble making the army play like Necrons after writing both Space Marines and Blood Angels. Take from this what you will but I'm not too thrilled on this as now I know for a fact WBB will cop out to FnP and other non-unique aspects.

...Matt Ward writing a Necrons book? I really don't like this idea. He's quite possibly the worst rules-writer to come along, and I really don't want to see them get screwier than they already are, tyvm.

Ianos
12-08-2010, 18:30
FNP fits the concept of streamlining the game in contrast with an army wide quirky rule that will invariably lead to more arguments and possibly less balance.

As for the rumors, the next 12 months look real nice, from what i understand its DE, GK, Crons. Three long expected codices, two of them finally bringing the more shooting pain in the battlefields of 40k!

Sarevok
12-08-2010, 18:36
Matt Ward eh? Nightbringer with S12 T12? Gauss fists? Ending every paragraph with ellipses to add "mystery"?

Can't wait.

IcedAnimals
12-08-2010, 18:44
Matt ward is not a bad rules writer. It is just his fluff that is bad. And with the necrons their fluff already sucks. There is so little of it that no matter what anyone writes there will be a change in necron lore with this codex. And by him getting necrons which I think is a perfect codex for him it means my sisters of battle are safe and sound!

Zanzibarthefirst
12-08-2010, 19:01
I think over the years, many of us have accepted that FnP is a real possibility for Necrons.

Starchild
12-08-2010, 19:13
Matt ward is not a bad rules writer. It is just his fluff that is bad. And with the necrons their fluff already sucks.It will get worse when Necron armies stop fighting and disappear when they get worn out from fighting Blood Angels. Oh wait! That's already in the Blood Angels codex! :o

Mr. Ultra
12-08-2010, 19:48
I know for a fact WBB will cop out to FnP and other non-unique aspects.

Excuse me, what's WBB and FnP? :wtf:

Fingol23
12-08-2010, 19:56
WBB= We'll be back

FNP = Feel no pain

Triple7s
12-08-2010, 20:31
My prediction is that he'll have been told to take the C'tan out. Imagine the OTT damage one of them could do in the hands of Mr Ward.

It'll be interesting to see how the Necrons go either way. If Mr Ward is indeed in charge of the codex...he isn't a BAD rule writer IMO, but he certainly has his moments (scouting predators etc), and hopefully he'll be either kept away from the fluff or given strict guidelines.

...Only time will tell (couldn't resist)

Commandojimbob
12-08-2010, 20:33
IMO - take WBB, make it work like FnP (so after armour save fail only) and there - streamlined but exactly the same rule. What i dont want is AP1/2 negating it (ala FnP), but instant death and no armour save CC weapons is right in the context of that vs a Necron!

Erwos
12-08-2010, 20:41
IMO - take WBB, make it work like FnP (so after armour save fail only) and there - streamlined but exactly the same rule. What i dont want is AP1/2 negating it (ala FnP), but instant death and no armour save CC weapons is right in the context of that vs a Necron!
Realistically, most stuff that's AP1/2 is going to be insta-death anyways. You're not losing a whole lot there.

Triple7s
12-08-2010, 20:45
I did have at one point an idea for a character for the Necrons, in a Lord who had particular command over the Scarabs. He could use Scarab units to strengthen a ranged attack of his - lets say he had as standard a certain ranged statline. Then he could add up to 3 units of Scarabs if they were within a certain distance, and each one added would give some strength and AP bonuses. Probably won't happen but it was just an idea I thought would be rather interesting.

Brother Antonios
12-08-2010, 20:53
I did have at one point an idea for a character for the Necrons, in a Lord who had particular command over the Scarabs. He could use Scarab units to strengthen a ranged attack of his - lets say he had as standard a certain ranged statline. Then he could add up to 3 units of Scarabs if they were within a certain distance, and each one added would give some strength and AP bonuses. Probably won't happen but it was just an idea I thought would be rather interesting.

That rule does not meet the Matt Ward confusion quotient, please add .5x more confusion factored with cheese and try again.

mantisman
12-08-2010, 20:57
or a lord that modifies WBB to 3+ on warriors (probibly within 6"-12") would make people want to take them again, even somthing as simple as the usr stubborn would make them worthwhile. Oh, and give pariah WBB, then people would buy them other than for fluffy/themed lists.

gorgon
12-08-2010, 20:59
It isn't laying down models but the differences in the timing of WBB as opposed to FNP.

You like how FnP helps Necrons in CC more than WBB?


Regarding Mat Ward, he may be the guy who broke WFB, but Codex: SM and Codex: BA are balanced books.

SeaSwift
12-08-2010, 21:29
Codex: SM and Codex: BA are kind of balanced books.

Fixed that for you ;)

daemonish
12-08-2010, 21:47
Recently i have considered exchanging my small tau force for a Necron force but i have held off until the new release is completed and i have had a good read of the book and looked at the models and frames. For me the WBB rule is part of the character of the army, however a review of it, making it similar to FnP wouldn't be such a bad thing. A great addition to the army would be some fast attack units similar to the bikes or the large harvester in terminator salvation. A plastic necron lord with all wargear options and a destroyer body option would be excellent but doubtful.

RobPro
12-08-2010, 22:30
I'll give up C'tan and WBB if it makes Necrons back into a playable army. I'd prefer to keep something like WBB around, but I do agree it tends to conflict whenever any situation arises where there could be conflict, which slows down games.

"I get knocked down, but I get up again. Never gonna keep me down..."

Quaade
12-08-2010, 22:42
I wouldn't mind if WBB is replaced with a rule that gives FNP instead.

WBB is a wierd rule as it's something that adds another phase to the game.

Much rather just give them FNP when within 6" of a identical model, make the Ress. Orb disregard the things that ignore FNP and have the Tomb Spyder extend the range or possibly always count as a model of the type trying to use FNP, or both.

None of that silliness with having to place models on their side, or meassuring if a dead unit is within distance of a running model, units that are running off, unable to regroup and then suddently getting boosted to above the cap again.

The difference in ruleset between FNP and WBB is miniscule, but makes it easier to balance and much much less bookkeeping and downright wierd situations.

Lukasz_VT
12-08-2010, 22:47
"I get knocked down, but I get up again. Never gonna keep me down..."

I'm eternally grateful that Chumbawamba don't have WBB. Though, after all that alcohol, they may well have FnP :D

The Dude
12-08-2010, 23:29
Nothing new here. I suspect this thread will die a slow and painful wishlisting death.

Yunaris
13-08-2010, 01:13
I'm happy aslong as the destroyer spam is dealt with as the only playable method left to the Necrons. Both by getting rid of destroyer spam and making us more playable.

More units too, would be kinda cool, even if it requires conversion. Plastic Immortals if I'm really good for Christmas.

Alfhedil
13-08-2010, 02:44
I did pass it by the Local Game store guy that I was going to wait for the Cron release before I make another Cron purchase, and he said it was an excellent idea, that Immortals may make their way into my budget. I thought it odd that he said this, as his store isn't a GW store and would likely be low on GW's priority list.

Raven1
13-08-2010, 05:14
now I know for a fact WBB will cop out to FnP and other non-unique aspects.

Did you know for a fact that WBB is FnP with the roll taken at different point in the game? Because it is. Plus, how does Matt Ward writing a codex mean automatically specific changes. Heck if Ward wanted to streamline it a bit and use USR as much as possible as opposed to in-codex only special rules (looking at you Tyranids) I welcome that change.

atraphos
13-08-2010, 07:54
...the reason it's taken this long is because he is having trouble making the army play like Necrons...

this is something i am rather happy to read. he can keep taking his time, not too much longer, but please mr ward, by all means, take your time to get it right. If you do, i'll be lining up for the dex and a new army.

Commandojimbob
13-08-2010, 08:02
Realistically, most stuff that's AP1/2 is going to be insta-death anyways. You're not losing a whole lot there.

That is true, but most ap1 weapons are anti-vehicle so yes high str but not anti-infantry, but your making necrons tougher against Plasma weapons (imperial and tau) and any weapon that rends (e.g. assault cannons) to name a couple , all of which are primarily anti-infantry which is what the bulk of necrons will face. Also consider if dark eldar rumours are true - Str 6 ap 1 rending weapons!

Atherakhia
13-08-2010, 08:17
If I may throw my $0.02 in, my guess would be that the C'tan would be taken out, and revived in an Apocalypse datasheet. After all, a vampiric Star God can't really be represented in small scale game mechanics, right?
Tomb Stalker would be nice too, but i'm guessing that would be a datasheet too....

t-tauri
13-08-2010, 10:01
Thread closed. We've already got a necron wishlist thread here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230575).