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eagletsi1
12-08-2010, 15:05
Last night I saw a game played where the both players agreed the wizard in the second rank could cast magic missles (Just a high elf and dark elf wizard on foot)

They claimed that since archers could shoot in two ranks, that all shooting was two ranks now in the 8th and thus Magic Missles which are shooting attacks, could also be from the second rank as long as the first rank could see the target. Is this true?

I never heard of this or even thought of this?

lowix
12-08-2010, 15:09
I believe they can as long as they can see the thing they are shooting, which should be easy with True line of sight.

shelfunit.
12-08-2010, 15:11
It does say on pg 31 under the description of magic missiles that he can target anything in both his forward arc and LoS "just as if the wizard was firing a missile weapon", I assume this is possible.
Probably a good idea (as the players in your example did) to agree this is definately the case before the game starts.
It does specify the wizard himself has to be able to see the target, so he might not be ok to use the front ranks LoS for this purpose.

Avian
12-08-2010, 15:13
Unless the front-rankers are especially tall and broad, you'll be able to cast magic missiles from the second rank.

This thread deals with the topic in some detail: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267953

shelfunit.
12-08-2010, 15:26
Unless the front-rankers are especially tall and broad, you'll be able to cast magic missiles from the second rank.

This thread deals with the topic in some detail: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267953

Ummm. That link is about stonethrowers Avian, and indirect fire. :confused:

Ramius4
12-08-2010, 15:28
Correct they can. But unlikely, since characters must be positioned in the front rank if possible. You can't intentionally put them in the second rank unless there is no room due to command models/other characters being present.

badgeraddict
12-08-2010, 15:34
Bretonnian Damsels are allowed to be placed in the second rank of Knights and as per the new Bret FAQ can use magic missiles from that position. Just as if she where in the front rank. Good times.

Avian
12-08-2010, 16:41
Sorry, this thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267425

eagletsi1
12-08-2010, 17:03
Correct they can. But unlikely, since characters must be positioned in the front rank if possible. You can't intentionally put them in the second rank unless there is no room due to command models/other characters being present.

Both these guys were using stubborn units of 3 wide to hide their wizards.

so I guess they could do it then.

Damocles8
12-08-2010, 17:05
this was addressed in the rulebook faq...

Mr.chair
12-08-2010, 17:19
this was addressed in the rulebook faq...
So glad you could chime in with this BLATANT LIE. I just reread the whole faq, and you, sir, are wrong. Not reference one.

Leggo1927
12-08-2010, 17:32
Both these guys were using stubborn units of 3 wide to hide their wizards.

so I guess they could do it then.

Do you mean Steadfast, instead of Stubborn. If you do then it was being played wrong, as its Ranks of 5 wide that count (unless HE and DE have aquired some new monsterous infantry since 8th release,) and 3 wide confurs a total number of ranks of 0.

However its perfectly feasable, to get a second rank wizard, managed it myself with my Tomb Kings. Tomb Guard full command, King on foot, Icon Bearer (I was using it for swift reform shennanagans on my now ld 10 Archer units,) and a Liche forced into rank two using no LoS requiring Augment spells.

eagletsi1
12-08-2010, 17:38
No The high Wizard was with White Lions, and the Dark Elf wizard with the Black Guard.

Both of those units are stubborn. They called it their Wizard Pocket. As if he was a quarterback protected by his offensive line.

Ramius4
12-08-2010, 17:40
Do you mean Steadfast, instead of Stubborn. If you do then it was being played wrong, as its Ranks of 5 wide that count (unless HE and DE have aquired some new monsterous infantry since 8th release,) and 3 wide confurs a total number of ranks of 0.

You do realize there is an actual rule called Stubborn right? And that some units have it? And you don't need to be Steadfast for it to work?

Just messing with you Leggo. ;)

Damocles8
13-08-2010, 00:33
So glad you could chime in with this BLATANT LIE. I just reread the whole faq, and you, sir, are wrong. Not reference one.

It was not a lie, I was mistaken; the answer lies in the Bretonnian FAQ (as it is the most common occurance of having a mage in the second rank casting spells.)

GodlessM
13-08-2010, 00:56
So glad you could chime in with this BLATANT LIE. I just reread the whole faq, and you, sir, are wrong. Not reference one.

Since when does somebody being wrong make them a blatant liar?

Lord Inquisitor
13-08-2010, 01:16
YES wizards can cast magic missiles from the second rank.

p31
"A Wizard can only cast a magic missile at a target that lies within his forward arc and to which he can trace line of sight (just as if the wizard was firing a missile weapon)."

p39
"models in the second rank can use the line of sight and forward arc of the model directly in front of them for the purposes of all shooting attacks."

The wizard can fire magic missiles from the second rank and doesn't need to be sitting on a big rock to do so, he just draws LOS from the model in front. No FAQ necessary, although the Brettonian one confirms this.

Please pass on the word before we see silliness like ogre butchers standing on stilts or with really long necks :rolleyes:

Casshole
13-08-2010, 06:02
if you have a character on a palanquin/warlitter in the front rank of 5 its easy to stick a wizard in rank 2

Brady
13-08-2010, 18:26
Just another thought, if due to the same reasons as above my BSB is in the second rank, can the unit still claim the effect of his standard?

smithers
13-08-2010, 18:48
Just another thought, if due to the same reasons as above my BSB is in the second rank, can the unit still claim the effect of his standard?

Nothing in the new rules about abilities being deactivated if you are not in front, so this is totally valid and a popular tactic for some armies I believe.

Skyros
13-08-2010, 20:33
Nothing in the new rules about abilities being deactivated if you are not in front, so this is totally valid and a popular tactic for some armies I believe.

Mind you there are rules making it bad to be in the back ranks if you wound up there as a result of refusing a challenge.

Yrrdead
14-08-2010, 01:57
Mind you there are rules making it bad to be in the back ranks if you wound up there as a result of refusing a challenge.

Like what exactly? The only thing I see is that the characters LD may not be used. If there are others I'd sure like to know.


After reading that it sounds kind of snarky. I don't mean to be. I'm genuinely curious.