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Smiling Banshee
12-08-2010, 22:23
Just ordered a load of Deamons, while I wait for them to arrive I thought i'd ask how people are gettin on with them in 8th.

What are their strengths and weaknesses in the new edition and are there any units i should never leave home without.

We havn't got a daemon player in our local group so I havn't got any idea how they play, Ive been reading through the army book but until ive had a game with them Its hard to see what works well and what doesn't. All I know is I love the models and can wait to start painting and then gaming with them.

DaemonReign
12-08-2010, 23:18
Daemons are great, I agree. I too ordered new stuff for about 800 Euros this month.

Your questions about them are very general, I feel I could write an entire thesis on what's good and what's not.

What I find fun about Daemons, especially in 8th, is that you can sort of "tier" them yourselves - i.e. if you want to make a really competative army, you can, and if you want to make a List that is a bigger challange then that's no problem either.

A good example is your choice of General - a Bloodthirster with Strength 10 that re-rolls missed hits is a world killer General. If you instead choose to go with the Daemon-prince you will get a whole lot more of a challange.

Same thing with the units.

You got stuff like Bloodcrushers and Beasts of Nurgle that simply cost way too much for what they generally accomplish - that's not to say I shun these units (especially not Bloodcrushers 'cause they are awesome models).

On the other hand you got FleshHounds and Flamers that are both still really viable in 8th Ed. FleshHounds are no longer the total monstrosities that they were in 7th given that people actually get to hit back at them - but use them in small detachments and tigh down stuff like Warmachines/speedbump-units. They excell at it.

I don't know what kind of stuff you bought, but don't forget about the Horde-rule - alot of people are talking about Daemons were nerfed by 8th Ed but the way the Horderule effects Bloodletters and Plaguebearers is certainly anything but a nerf.

All in all I've found 8th Ed to be much more suitable for DoC-playing than 7th Ed ever were. In 7th Ed you were forced by the slot-system to field a whole bunch of small boring units - now with percentages you can field and Daemon host that really looks like something out of the warp.

The fact that most of your given opponents have gotten better at dealing with Daemons is also a great plus - because it makes the game more even and ultimately more fun. Besides, sometime in a far distant future people might stop whining about this List and focus on the Lists in the game that really deserve derition for being overpowered.

Well, if you're starting out with Daemons then just get your first list together and have at it a couple of times. Just as with any new list there's alot to explore.

Hope it turns out to be what you hoped for.

GodlessM
12-08-2010, 23:27
A good example is your choice of General - a Bloodthirster with Strength 10 that re-rolls missed hits is a world killer General.

scott; take this as an example of exactly how not to arm your Bloodthirster :p S10 is overkill and a waste of points when you can go S7 instead for pretty much the same killing power and take Obsidian Armour to negate enemy magic weapons.

On the army itself, a mate of mine plays them and has been having tremendous success with a Bloodletter horde 10x4. Daemonettes with a Herald also have great uses against T3 armies. A mix of these two gives you a good all-round core. Always try and get Heralds into your core units also as they up their performance considerably.

The great thing about Daemon really is their versatility. Apart from certain character builds and Plaguebearers most other stuff can have a good role to fill.

nzdarkelf
13-08-2010, 01:34
Hi Scott,

I've also found 8th edition to be a real boost to my Daemon army. Not having to use 3 core units at 2000pts level is a blessing. I'm running one core unit per 1000pts. At the moment I'm using Bloodletters in 3 ranks, full command, backed with a Herald. My next game I am tweeking my list and running the Heralds on Juggars in the infantry. (By my reading of the rules it will mean they can be targeted within the unit - but I'll play the game and see what my opponent knows).
I find GodlessM's opponents 10x4 Bloodletter Horde a scary thought. However maybe in a larger game I might try combining both my Bloodletter units into one (and keep both Heralds in as well) and take a photo of my opponents face. Hmmm maybe I should try it in a 2000pts game...
I have been running a 3xBloodcrusher unit. I made the models from the old metal figs, so they are my favourites for that reason. I have just purchased a couple of Fiends of Slaanesh and are going to give them a try.
My big surprise last game were my Flamers of Tzeentch. I love the fact that I can now take my Bloodcrushers/Fiends AND two units of Flamers. I know alot of people cry cheese with these guys. Well last weekend I played against a Dwarf army with an Organ Gun, 2 Bolt Throwers and units of Thunderers and Quarrallers. So I don't feel any guilt about my 2x4 Flamer units.
I used these guys to take on the Bolt Throwers who were positioned for some nice flank shots. There was a 'mystery' river between us. I took my flamers up to the bank of the river then spent two turns of frustration as my lads attacks were deflected by the toughness of the warmachine. In two turns they took only one wound. Annoyed I checked up the rules for 'mystery' rivers and with some surprise discovered it was only going to be a problem if a '6' was rolled. What the heck, I charged and got the +3 initiative result - not that I needed it. Once in combat the Flamers rocked against the crew. I have always thought there shooting attack is so good that I have never contemplated them as a combat unit. That was my surprise.

DaemonReign
13-08-2010, 03:05
S10 is overkill and a waste of points when you can go S7 instead for pretty much the same killing power and take Obsidian Armour to negate enemy magic weapons.

S7 isn't "pretty much the same" killing power. I oftentimes meet Dwarf and Dark Elf Lords that have both good armour save and very good Ward Save. S10 Thirster have saved alot of such games (because a S10 Thirster will kill anything in one round of combat, period, whereas those super-save characters can go entire battles against him with S7) - precisely because opponents don't see it coming. Or let's just concider the steamtank.

I find Obsidian armour far more situational - which is, of course, why it's conciderably cheaper in points and thus possible to combine with other gifts. That's a plus with Obsidian Armour. No doubt.

w3rm
13-08-2010, 03:37
I like bloodthirsters with Soul Hunger, Hatred, Axe of Khorne and Spell Breaker.

I can only reccomend fiends for any list. They fill so many rolls. Take 1 as a cheap warmachine hunter. Take 2-3 as a support unit. Take 6+ as a nice fast hammer.

Smiling Banshee
13-08-2010, 10:16
Thanks for all the replies guys. Really looking forward to getting started with them now. I already have a WOC and High Elf army, Ive wanted to start Daemons for a while but with the new plastic releases I couldn't hold off anymore and had to take the plunge.

Wade Wilson
13-08-2010, 10:51
Hola peeps. I have just started with Doc myself (and to boot im a long time 40k plauyer, not fantsay).Picked up the codex mainly because the new models look fantastic (it was a close call with dark elves and lizardmen). I have read a few of the daemon threads and somthing that pops up alot is the general dislike of Daemon Princes. Am i missing somthing because to a noob they dont look too bad (although even i can see that the points value quickly accumulates on them).

At 2000 points i am planning on using some herlads and no Lords but at 2500 its a toss up between a kitted out Bloodthirster or Keeper of Secrets.

Im leaning towards the Keeper for the crazy number of attacks and I10 thunderstomp (am i right that ASF cancels out ASL and uses the Keepers Initiative value?)and the potential for another level 2 wizard.

GodlessM
13-08-2010, 11:11
S7 isn't "pretty much the same" killing power. I oftentimes meet Dwarf and Dark Elf Lords that have both good armour save and very good Ward Save. S10 Thirster have saved alot of such games (because a S10 Thirster will kill anything in one round of combat, period, whereas those super-save characters can go entire battles against him with S7) - precisely because opponents don't see it coming. Or let's just concider the steamtank.


They are called super-save characters because they have high ward saves and they aren't affected by strength, so you are still unlikely to kill them, however you will much prefer having Obsidian Armour when you go up against the Dark Elf Lord with the Executioner's Axe who kills your BT in one round of combat.