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View Full Version : Go,Go, Guilliman.



mob16151
13-08-2010, 00:04
So I want to find out where Warseer stands in the case of the incredible healing Primarch. We all know the story, Guilliman fights Fulgrim and ends up poisoned, and in a stasis field. Now reports circulate from pilgrims that Roboute is healing. Which scientifically I guess should be impossible. However in the 40k universe the impossible is often merely difficult. So what I want to know is how the warseer community is divided. Is Guilliman healing, and how is he doing it? Or is he not healing, and why do you believe that.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
13-08-2010, 00:08
I don't see how he could be. The stasis field keeps things from changing, for better or for worse. And I'm a big fan of the Ultramarines.

Sgt John Keel
13-08-2010, 00:09
I'm very content with "maybe healing". We don't need to ruin more mysteries.

Lord Asgul
13-08-2010, 00:33
He is probably just falling forwards :P

Son of Sanguinius
13-08-2010, 00:37
Stasis is stasis and the people of the Imperium are superstitious. He's not healing.

In fact, I bet that if they ever wake him up they will find out that he's fallen to Chaos, if not Slaanesh itself. Thousands and thousands of years with your soul and those warp-spawned poisons can't be a healthy mix for the sane.

Sgt John Keel
13-08-2010, 00:45
Stasis is stasis and the people of the Imperium are superstitious. He's not healing.

The stasis fields in Haldeman's The Forever War are very different to 40k stasis field. So stasis isn't always stasis. In either case, technology is never 100 % efficient, so who knows what's happening …

Drasanil
13-08-2010, 01:08
I think he's healing, if only because all the Loyalist Primarchs seems to have some obscure "may come back later" card... well except Ferrus since he's dead with no head.

madprophet
13-08-2010, 01:52
Go Go Guiliman? Didn't he used to work at White Dwarf?

Chem-Dog
13-08-2010, 01:59
I voted yes, it's the first and only thing that the Emperor's accountant has done that's been of any interest :D
He might be fixed in time for the end of times, where he'll obviously volunteer to be umpire.

Malice313
13-08-2010, 02:59
...We don't need to ruin more mysteries.

Indeed "ruin more mysteries."

One of the fun things about a few of the games I play is that they have half truths that can be explored by the gamers.

This is becoming less and less the case with 4+k.

I'm glad that so far GW has tried to limit the "progression" of the story line or "reboot" it. That sort of stuff has killed a number of very successful games in the past.

I guess though the revealing of mysteries is one way of keeping interest in the story line.

...of course new mysteries might be nice too.

PostinDirty
13-08-2010, 04:31
Indeed "ruin more mysteries."

One of the fun things about a few of the games I play is that they have half truths that can be explored by the gamers.

This is becoming less and less the case with 4+k.

my sentiments to a point - i'm enjoying the odd moments when an author like Dan Abnett is given reign to fill out part of the mystery, but will fill the universe with yet more questions.

while i can't shake the feeling a lot of what he wrote in Legion was shoe-horned, i still left satisfied with his treatment of the subject matter, and excited about what it proposed. no other 40k novel has done that so far, except bill king's inquisitor series back in the day.

in relation to the mystery of guilliman's wound - yep its healing, basically because every codex since the start has suggested it, and its pretty much the most ham-fisted way of suggesting we assume it is so without blatantly stating it as fact.

Hellebore
13-08-2010, 06:20
The injury has never been declared as healing. It always says that pilgrims insist that it is, or that there is rumour that it is.

Considering how little these peasants actually know of stasis and their vested interest in him getting better, it's highly that their 'it's a miracle' rumours are just that. He was supposed to be pretty much dead when Fulgrim struck him, putting him in stasis was more so they could preserve him, rather than save him.

Hellebore

Silent_Moebius
13-08-2010, 06:27
Maybe it's the Chaos. I mean, the Chaos gods. They found a way to go around that statis...Slowly, but they found a way. So they corrupt him ... while they healing his wounds ... slowly.

First, everybody will be like "Yeah, he is back", but then they will be like "Oh no, what to do. He is the avatar of chaos"... :eek: :cool:

metal bawks
13-08-2010, 06:40
I think people here are forgetting that belief is a very real force in 40k, because the Warp is a reflection of such thoughts and feelings. Remember the Sisters of Battle acts of Faith? And how Ork technology works mostly on belief? So, in my opinion, if enough people believe that Guilliman is healing, it just might be possible that it's really happening.

Thought for the day: Doubt is the beginning of wisdom, but faith can move mountains.

RunepriestRidcully
13-08-2010, 07:23
He's dead, the stasis field is just gloryfied fridge! But if he does get woken up, (the power of belief is strong in 40K) He will have fallen to chaos, combine his massive ego and pride, getting put down by fulgrim possesed by Lady Gaga, and then 10,000 years of stasis with Slanneshi drugs in him, anyone bar the emperor would be curropted by that, so yeah, if Guilliman wakes up, he will be a daemon primarch of Slannesh.

yabbadabba
13-08-2010, 07:44
Stasis fields in 40K aren't 100% - the slow time down massively but don't stop it. That was from RT/2e crossover days.

Its not 10k years - in the stasis field the effective time will be substantially less than that. In addition it is highly unlikely RG would have noticed much going on around him.

Its deliberately left vague to give us a wonderful Arthurian style myth to interweave into the 40K storyline.

Formosus
13-08-2010, 07:55
Frankly, if he is still alive, they should probably just turn the damned thing off and let the man die and join the Emperor in the Warp.

Could you imagine living 10,000 years with a near-fatal neck wound and veins full of poison?

Malice313
13-08-2010, 09:16
First, everybody will be like "Yeah, he is back", but then they will be like "Oh no, what to do. He is the avatar of chaos"... :eek: :cool:

Legion meets Pet Cemetery?:eek:

Iuris
13-08-2010, 10:24
My opinion: In stasis, not healing, but people keep getting surprised the actual wound is much smaller and less impressive than the "grievous gash of spraying blood" they expected from legend, so they get the feeling he must have healed a bit.

Wyrmwood
13-08-2010, 16:17
It would be nice if the stasis field started to fail, or was never perfect, and as more time went on decomposition or some form of corruption became evident. I don't mean this to be tongue in cheek, as I like the Ultramarines.

Merus
13-08-2010, 16:23
The injury has never been declared as healing. It always says that pilgrims insist that it is, or that there is rumour that it is.

Considering how little these peasants actually know of stasis and their vested interest in him getting better, it's highly that their 'it's a miracle' rumours are just that. He was supposed to be pretty much dead when Fulgrim struck him, putting him in stasis was more so they could preserve him, rather than save him.

The Legions apothecaries placed him in stasis before the toxins of Fulgrim's daemon weapons could kill him. So, he is still alive, just in terrible shape.

Is he healing? I'd like to think so; but that's admittedly personal bias on my part, seeing as how us Loyalists are down a few Primarchs already. ;)

What I find a bit silly is that they were able to save Horus from the Anathame; but they haven't found a cure for Guilliman? :wtf:

BaloOrk
13-08-2010, 16:41
I voted yes :) (Go, Go, Me.)
And does stasis affect your presence in the warp?(soul?)

Wyrmwood
13-08-2010, 16:43
The Legions apothecaries placed him in stasis before the toxins of Fulgrim's daemon weapons could kill him. So, he is still alive, just in terrible shape.

Is he healing? I'd like to think so; but that's admittedly personal bias on my part, seeing as how us Loyalists are down a few Primarchs already. ;)

What I find a bit silly is that they were able to save Horus from the Anathame; but they haven't found a cure for Guilliman? :wtf:

Well, if those toxins had taken full effect he would be dead - so it's just semantics really.

Largo
13-08-2010, 17:08
IIRC. In the Inquisition War trilogy. Draco said something along the lines of the soul staying aware in stasis, if the person was a psyker. Since all the primarchs had the potential. Maybe he really is aware and going mental in there.

Damn hard to type on an iPhone and eat ice cream.

TheOverlord
13-08-2010, 17:41
Well if it is healing, it's been 10 thousand years, and if it's taken this long for people to speculate there's been any changes, I doubt anything's going to happen anytime soon anyway.

Wyrmwood
13-08-2010, 18:01
IIRC. In the Inquisition War trilogy. Draco said something along the lines of the soul staying aware in stasis, if the person was a psyker. Since all the primarchs had the potential. Maybe he really is aware and going mental in there.

Damn hard to type on an iPhone and eat ice cream.

Perhaps he will one day do an Optimus Prime, returning from the dead/stasis and losing his mind :).

spetswalshe
13-08-2010, 18:35
Could you imagine living 10,000 years with a near-fatal neck wound and veins full of poison?

I can't imagine dunking a metal dragon into a magma river and holding it there until it melted and fused with your hands, but even the most arguably rubbish Primarch pulled that off. Face it, Primarchs be crazy. I bet ol' Guillie is having a whale of a time; composing show tunes, writing his increasingly bizarre biography ('4,000 years into my exile, I realised I was a Void Whale looking for a mate. This continued for two centuries, and even now when I think of marine life I struggle to avoid arousal.') and talking to himself.

NightAngel
13-08-2010, 19:21
Don't worry!

Want to revive your Primarch there's an app for that.

I know this is a terrible joke and I apologise.

RunepriestRidcully
13-08-2010, 19:47
I can't imagine dunking a metal dragon into a magma river and holding it there until it melted and fused with your hands, but even the most arguably rubbish Primarch pulled that off. Face it, Primarchs be crazy. I bet ol' Guillie is having a whale of a time; composing show tunes, writing his increasingly bizarre biography ('4,000 years into my exile, I realised I was a Void Whale looking for a mate. This continued for two centuries, and even now when I think of marine life I struggle to avoid arousal.') and talking to himself.

Have you read P.R.I.M.A.R.C.H.S? mind you in that they are not so much crazy, but more, well okay they are crazy, and also now I keep imagine Guilliman like that charecter from the simpsons, the Troy Maclure? actor who liked:shifty: fish, Leman Russ, well, me and some friends decided he was proberbly like Captain Jack off Torchwood, with the space wolves being effectively a legion of Captain Jacks, the heresy was caused by the Emperor pestering Horus for grankids, Fulgrim was often thought of as the Emperors "daughter", Alpharus was scared of the dark, and Sanguinus had to fight off insane fangirls each day, perhaps thread should be started to discuss the insanities of the primarchs to lighten up the mood?

ThirdUltra
13-08-2010, 21:10
Considering that he was probably struck down by the same weapon that infected Horus (anatheme/kineblade/kinebracht), it's probably safe to say that a dash of Davinite priests with a reknowned Word Bearer chaplain and some ruinous power providing the assist, he could be cured....lol!

Of course, then we would see something akin to Horus mk.II/lite in effect...lol!

On a serious note though, it appears that there is some belief among the pilgrims who take the journey to MaCragge to see his enshrined body....and, much like some others have posted, belief seems to be a very powerful thing in the 40k universe, so it's quite possible that he may be healing, regardless of the weapon's effects.

Merus
14-08-2010, 01:50
Well, if those toxins had taken full effect he would be dead - so it's just semantics really.

The difference between being alive and having your corpse preserved is a pretty large difference. I'd imagine it's a very important difference to Roboute. ;)

Hellebore
14-08-2010, 02:05
The logic is very one sided. He ws dying from the poisons, so they put him in stasis.

But somehow being in stasis only put the toxin effect on hold and left his other biology to function in repair? The toxin would move through the blood stream the same way his immune cells woud, so somehow his immune cells are moving by the toxin is not.

I've never seen anything to suggest that stasis fielda are that selective.

If he wound closed up and he was let out of stasis he'd still dorp dead from all the poisons in his system, if not then they shouldn't have affected him in the first place.

Hellebore

PostinDirty
14-08-2010, 02:38
*shrugs*

when it comes to the primarchs i don't think you can apply any sort of logic or real world explanation as to how they work, or the effect 40k tech has on them. especially oobie-doobie daemon venom

Merus
14-08-2010, 02:44
The logic is very one sided. He ws dying from the poisons, so they put him in stasis.

But somehow being in stasis only put the toxin effect on hold and left his other biology to function in repair? The toxin would move through the blood stream the same way his immune cells woud, so somehow his immune cells are moving by the toxin is not.

I've never seen anything to suggest that stasis fielda are that selective.

If he wound closed up and he was let out of stasis he'd still dorp dead from all the poisons in his system, if not then they shouldn't have affected him in the first place.

I don't believe it has anything to do with his body repairing itself. I think it has more to do with the faith of all of the Pilgrims, and the population of the Ultramarine controlled worlds, that believe he is healing.

It could be a psychic/faith oriented healing. Faith is very powerful.

Brother Antonios
14-08-2010, 02:53
Well their is a BL story about a Necron Star God getting stuck in stasis and even he was unable to do anything about it. If it is a stasis field from the later half of M41 then it would not be possible for anything to change. As pointed out the stasis fields from M31ish were not as perfect according to RT cannon.

Depends more on if they have upgraded the stasis equipment, which would be possible without having to bring him out. If the equipment is still original then some small changes after 10k years are possible and even mentioned.

Malice313
14-08-2010, 03:43
And does stasis affect your presence in the warp?(soul?)

That's an interesting question!

Time and space seem to be irrelevant to the Warp, so I doubt it would.


It could be a psychic/faith oriented healing. Faith is very powerful.

Particularly in the Warhammer universe.

Hellebore
14-08-2010, 05:33
Faith has an effect in warhammer but over a huge amount of time and/or concerted effort. Certainly it's not a deployable weapon. I doubt every human in the imperium is aware or even cares about Guilliman's current statis and even less actually visit the shrine to pray there. The abilities of the sisters of battle are in line with powers granted to the followers of other gods, ie marks of chaos.

Hellebore

RCgothic
14-08-2010, 09:27
He was struck with the same weapon that Horus survived, albeit with the help of the gods of chaos, and technology can be a bit weird, so I'd say it's not beyond the realms of possiblity that he's healing.

Merus
14-08-2010, 17:00
Faith has an effect in warhammer but over a huge amount of time and/or concerted effort. Certainly it's not a deployable weapon. The abilities of the sisters of battle are in line with powers granted to the followers of other gods, ie marks of chaos.

We have no idea what faith can do to a being made of warp energy though; a Primarch is no ordinary man. As has been the more recent trend in novels like A Thousand Sons and the upcoming The First Heretic; Primarchs are described as a swirling maelstroms of power, and they are difficult to even look at directly. Perhaps based on this, the faith is having a significantly greater effect.


I doubt every human in the imperium is aware or even cares about Guilliman's current statis and even less actually visit the shrine to pray there.

The Imperium has a "holiday" in remembrance of Sanguinius, why is it so far-fetched to believe that the Imperium misses Guilliman? I also don't think it requires one to physically visit the shrine. Perhaps it's similar to a talpa; if enough people share the belief, regardless of where they are located, the belief becomes reality.

I mean, can you imagine how amazing it would be to go and visit the resting place of a demi-god? The last of the Emperor's sons, that a citizen can actually go and see? It would be incredible. I can't imagine there is a slow trickle of citizens going to visit him.

Until we know more about the amount of people who visit and believe we can't say either way.

Lord Zarkov
14-08-2010, 21:54
The other thing that could help with 'faith healing' is that the anathame (almost certainly the weapon that did him in) is a sentient warp powered weapon - it itself might be affected by reflection in the warp of belief in his healing.

p.s. does anyone else mentally put the word 'gadget' in the thread title?

Iracundus
14-08-2010, 23:14
I mean, can you imagine how amazing it would be to go and visit the resting place of a demi-god? The last of the Emperor's sons, that a citizen can actually go and see? It would be incredible. I can't imagine there is a slow trickle of citizens going to visit him.


The vested interests and biases of the pilgrims do not make for objective viewers. They want to believe he is healing even if he isn't, and it is unlikely many of the pilgrims will make more than 1 trip in their lifetimes so it's not like they could return and check on the wounds. Even the Ultramarines are not going to be realistically measuring the wounds or making rational observations over the years.

The Imperium is not a place of rationality. A similar example is given in Ian Watson's Harlequin wherein pilgrims go to see a piece of cloth that the Emperor had supposedly used to wipe his face during the Great Crusade. The pilgrims swoon and comment on how beautiful the Emperor's face is. The main character, a skeptical Inquisitor, later goes and finds out from the monks that the actual impression faded away to nothing thousands of years ago. The Inquisitor sees the sheet and it is totally blank and he has none of the religious experiences the pilgrims have.

Never underestimate the ability for the human mind to induce things in itself, regardless of what outside reality may say.

Clockwork-Knight
14-08-2010, 23:18
We can however say that the omnisicent narrator states that only a bunch of poor and crazy pilgrims from all dark corners of the Imperium who eat their own feces believe that he's healing. If you spend your entire fortune and travel through hell on a voyage that takes years, as that's how much traveling costs for almost the entire populace in the Imperium (sans the dirty rich and powerful), then you will want that object of worship you came to gaze for a short time of your worthless life upon gets miraculously healed, so that he can thank you and do his superhuman schtick. Everything else drives those feces-eating pilgrims mad. And madness might lead to chaos.

Iracundus
14-08-2010, 23:39
I find that you seem to enjoy killing discussions, Iracundus. Which is confusing, considering this is a forum for discussing Warhammer.

The actual premise or statement has been misstated over the course of the discussion, to where people have claimed it was actually hinted the Primarch was healing, when that is not what is actually said. It is just one more example of how subtle misreadings can lead to dramatically different conclusions than if the actual statements were read accurately.

Merus
14-08-2010, 23:42
The actual premise or statement has been misstated over the course of the discussion, to where people have claimed it was actually hinted the Primarch was healing, when that is not what is actually said. It is just one more example of how subtle misreadings can lead to dramatically different conclusions than if the actual statements were read accurately.

In your opinion, perhaps.

I don't believe anyone here has done anything other than put in their two-cents about how the Primarch could be healing, on the chance that the pilgrims are correct.

Thanks for clearing that up for everyone though, in the event that they were confused.

t-tauri
15-08-2010, 18:35
A swathe of bickering posts removed. Please post in accordance with the posting guidelines.

t-tauri

The Warseer Inquisition

mob16151
17-08-2010, 01:54
Thanks for the input everyone. And I was surprised at how close the vote is.

gwarsh41
17-08-2010, 13:24
So, if stasis slows things down, his time in the stasis field has only felt like a few days to him, then even if he is healing, it will be thousands more years before anything happens. He will age and eventually die in the stasis field. A similar thing is happening to Bjorn the Fell handed. He hangs out in a time slowed chamber, but is still going senile... and is a dreadnought!

Iron-Halo-Marine077
18-08-2010, 09:36
I think he is healing but slowly but I cant really say. but it would be cool if he did and how did he become poisoned???? im new to warhammer 40k I know how he dead but I didnt know he was poisoned.

Wyrmwood
18-08-2010, 14:49
I think he is healing but slowly but I cant really say. but it would be cool if he did and how did he become poisoned???? im new to warhammer 40k I know how he dead but I didnt know he was poisoned.

Fulgrim, by that point a Deamon Prince, bested him in a duel, presumably, and stabbed him with a Deamon weapon.

Lord Zarkov
18-08-2010, 16:40
Either that or the Anathame he was given by Horus, which seems more likely given the incurable poisoning done to Guilliman.

qwertyuiop
22-08-2010, 15:59
i heard a theory once that the primarchs were essentially wyrds, marines that used psychic powers without risk or even realising it to enhance strength, healing, speed and any other fancy ability a primarch can do. if this was right and the healing factor was due to psychic powers and the warp and time doesn't exist in the warp, by extension surely guilliman could heal in a place without time?

Wyrmwood
22-08-2010, 17:59
Either that or the Anathame he was given by Horus, which seems more likely given the incurable poisoning done to Guilliman.

Anatheme =/= Deamon Weapon but, point taken sir. It does seem strange though, a Slaaneshi prince wielding a weapon of Nurgle.

FabricatorGeneralMike
22-08-2010, 18:28
Anatheme =/= Deamon Weapon but, point taken sir. It does seem strange though, a Slaaneshi prince wielding a weapon of Nurgle.


It's not that strange. Around this time all the Chaos Gods called a truce to help Hours kill the Emperor. So it would make sence that a Slanneshi Daemon Primarch would have a Nurgle Daemon weapon.

It's not like some jobber-nobody had the weapon, Fulgrim was probley number two (guy ??) in Slanneshi power behind Horus around this time.

jb85
22-08-2010, 18:43
Fulgrim, by that point a Deamon Prince, bested him in a duel, presumably, and stabbed him with a Deamon weapon.

Since Fulgrim and the EC had disappeared by the end of the duel (If I have remembered the relevant IA correctly), I think you can make a decent argument (based on the enjoyment the EC's and Fulgrim take from the mutilation of corpses) that Guilliman won the day against Fulgrim and was struck down in the aftermath by the effects of a glancing wound from Fulgrim's weapon. Not that it makes much difference either way.

Grubnar
13-09-2010, 00:58
I voted yes.

I think there have been many interesting points raised here.

1. After his fight with Fulgrim (who has not been seen since as fas I know) Guilliman seemed unable to speak, or even move. He seemed to be getting closer to death no matter whet the legion apotecaries did, so they decided to put him in stasis. They may have been right,they may have been wrong. :(

2. Time does not stop in a stasis field. It is mearly slowed down so much that it might seem so. See Björn the Fell-Handed (who has been in stasis for the better part of 10.000 years, same as Guilliman. :chrome:

3. If the injury Guilliman suffered in his fight with Fulgrim are of the same nature as those suffered by Horus before he turned to Chaos, it is possible that the chaos gods were trying to convert him. If so it is highly unlikely that Guilliman would turn traitor since he never did before. Say what you want about him and his Legion, he was by all acounts a man of character. :)

4. I especially like the idea that the belive of all those pilgrims that come to Guillimans shrine that his wound is healing might actually make it so! It would be great if the Ultramarines unknowingly make him whole again by simply having him on display. :D

5. I would like to think that someday Robute Guilliman will again walk about him realm of Ultramar and lead his Legion for the better of humanity.
Maybe I am just a hopeless romantic. :angel:

Sternguard777
13-09-2010, 05:35
I would say yes if only because of the Idea of the Big daddy Ultrasmurf comming out of stasis to teach Calgar all the showtunes he came up with in stasis. :)

RCgothic
13-09-2010, 06:57
4. I especially like the idea that the belive of all those pilgrims that come to Guillimans shrine that his wound is healing might actually make it so! It would be great if the Ultramarines unknowingly make him whole again by simply having him on display. :D


Belief has power in 40k. If the pilgrims believe he is healing, whether he originally was or not is irrelevant, because their belief could make it so.

Abaraxas
13-09-2010, 10:14
Guilliman is healing, Russ, The Lion, The Khan, Corax and Vulkan will all return at the end of times.

Everybody knows that,right?

I like the mystery-bringing any of the loyalist Primarchs back will ruin the 40k world as far as Im concerned.