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Formosus
13-08-2010, 08:14
Now, I have used the search thread, and I read most of the threads concerning how these little buggers spread a Genestealer cult.

However, using their ovipositors, they seem only to be able to create hybrids that can merely approach being an actual genestealer. So how do genestealers make more, 100% genestealers?

Are they birthed from the hives like other Tyranids and have to wait for reinforcements from a Hive Fleet? Can they use their ovipositors to simply lay a regular eggs in people that hatch Alien-style?

Sai-Lauren
13-08-2010, 08:18
Now, I have used the search thread, and I read most of the threads concerning how these little buggers spread a Genestealer cult.

However, using their ovipositors, they seem only to be able to create hybrids that can merely approach being an actual genestealer. So how do genestealers make more, 100% genestealers?

Are they birthed from the hives like other Tyranids and have to wait for reinforcements from a Hive Fleet? Can they use their ovipositors to simply lay a regular eggs in people that hatch Alien-style?

4th Generation hybrids can be either human or pure genestealer.

Formosus
13-08-2010, 08:31
4th Generation hybrids can be either human or pure genestealer.

I read over here (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Genestealer#cite_note-Codex_Tyranids_1st_Edition-1) that the 5th generation is always a purebreed Genestealer, but the assertion was unsourced and the nearest source was for the 1st edition Codex, which I don't have access to.

I've not heard that 4th gens can be either genestealers or host-looking hybrids. Is that from a newer edition?

Sai-Lauren
13-08-2010, 09:06
Older, the original RT-era Genestealer cult list. :)

Lord Asgul
13-08-2010, 10:10
Yes I believe that the 4th generation or 5th is always a purestrain genestealer

Iuris
13-08-2010, 10:22
It's a weird progression: pure genestealer -> very genestealer hybrid-> barely genestealer looking hybrid -> human looking hybrid -> pure genestealer.

Hunger
13-08-2010, 11:28
Iuris is correct, 4th always produces a purestrain. Magus produced on the 3rd generation.

Urza
13-08-2010, 12:43
The cycle was described around the 1st Edition Space Hulk era as follows:

1st Gen: Barely distinguisable from the Purestrain Genestealer. Reproduces via ovipositor.
2nd Gen: Slightly more human shaped head, possibly only has three arms. Capable of using basic technology. Reproduces via ovipositor.
3rd Gen: Carapace largely replace with human-style epidermis. Usually has three or in some cases only two arms. Head is closer to human. Capable of using most Imperial-era technology. Reproduces via ovipositor.
4th Gen: Identical to human in all aspects apart from hypnotic black eyeballs, slight ridges on forehead and is completely hairless. High tendency to be psychic. All Genestealer Magi are 4th Gen. A 4th Gen reproduces in the same way as its host race (ie usually human), and the result of this coupling is a Purestrain Genestealer.

Chem-Dog
13-08-2010, 12:58
Are they birthed from the hives like other Tyranids and have to wait for reinforcements from a Hive Fleet? Can they use their ovipositors to simply lay a regular eggs in people that hatch Alien-style?

Not quite.
1) Purestrain Genestealer implants recipient organism which then becomes subservient. Purestrain Genestealer then become designated Patriarch. In the old Genestealer army list these were known as Brood Brothers.
All of the subjugated organisms and each subsequent generation of offspring will be entirely controlled by the Patriarch's will, they will share a telepathic group conciousness.
As the "Cult" grows so does the Patriarch. In physical stature and psychic power.
2) "Brood Brothers" then have children, the process is appropriate for the organism concerned. There is some suggestion that "Brood Brothers" enjoy a somewhat improved level of fertility and gestation period may also be accelerated.
3) The First Generation of offspring are 1st Generation Hybrids, they are almost entirely Genestealer in appearance. Sexual maturity in these offspring may be advanced of the norm.
4) The Second Generation of Hybrids is propogate by an intermingling of Brood Brothers and 1st Generation Hybrids, they bear more of a resembalance to the host species. Low level psychic ability may be present in this generation.
5) Third Generation Hybrids are, again, a result of breeding between the previous generation and the subservient host species. They bear more of a resembalance to the host species and may be able to lurk at the edge of society. They'll possess more intellect than in previous generations.
6) The final Generation of Hybrids is born, they will be able to pass as their host species to a casual observer, although they will not bear up to close inspection.
This Generation will also produce one (or possibly more) "magus" hybrids, these individuals will be most strikingly similar to their host species (possiby by way of selective breeding), the "Magus" will be a genius level intellect and possess formidable psychic powers (bolstered, obviously, by his telepathic link to the Patriarch and the whole Brood), the function of this individual is to move out into a society and gain control of the population and government (if present) via subterfuge. Again in the Human Cult list, this was expressed as the Magus posing as a prophet of a new cult.
7) The final link in the Genestealer generational cycle 4th Generation Hybrids become parents to the "Purestrain" genestealer, exactly what yoy get in the Tyranid swarms (although some variation may be evident due to charicteristics of the host species.

The "Cult" will continue to grow until it is either discovered or the Patriarch feels he is secure enough to sieze control of the planet. Although the Patriarch is not aware of it, his entire purpose is as a beacon for the Hive Mind, the growth of his brood increases his "Signal", thus a more fertile ground will provide a bigger signal quickly meaning more food for the Hive. When the Hive Mind draws close the Patriarch comes under it's power again (and therefore so do his followers) they may stand idly waiting to be digested or explode in an orgy of violence intended only to wrong foot and disrupt defenders against the oncoming Tyranid threat.


I think that's about it, best I can do from memory as I'm currently at "work" :shifty:

AndrewGPaul
13-08-2010, 15:16
IIRC only the firstborn of 4th generation hybrids are 'stealers; subsequent offspring are normal members of the host species.

Hunger
13-08-2010, 15:29
Aha, Magus on 4th gen. My bad.

Formosus
13-08-2010, 18:25
Does it describe anywhere what the birth of the 5th generation purestrain is like?

Since the 4th generation are basically just humans, who mate with another human, I'd imagine giving birth to something covered in bony ridges and claws to be fatal to the mother.

Chem-Dog
14-08-2010, 13:35
I have always assumed the carapace is relatively soft and smooth in infant 'Stealers, they would have trouble growing too adult size if there wasn't any room to expand inside the armour.

AndrewGPaul
14-08-2010, 14:37
Well, it did say "first-born", implying there'll be others.

Don't suppose someone fancies drawing an infant 'stealer? little claws and big baby eyes? d'awww. :)

AndrewGPaul
14-08-2010, 14:43
Well, it did say "first-born", implying there'll be others.

Don't suppose someone fancies drawing an infant 'stealer? little claws and big baby eyes? d'awww. :)

Sai-Lauren
16-08-2010, 09:02
Since the 4th generation are basically just humans, who mate with another human, I'd imagine giving birth to something covered in bony ridges and claws to be fatal to the mother.

There's always C-sections and so on.

Although considering the cult couldn't use normal medical facilities and have to set themselves up out of plain sight, chances are that maternal mortality rates are higher than the rest of the population anyway, at least for the first few generations, and certainly for those outside the genestealers own genetic line.

Morty
16-08-2010, 09:36
I would say that basicaly averyone is corect about the genralities of the way in which 'stealers reproduce, however, GW has alwies carfuly sidestepped tha actuale detailes of there breading, what is STRONGLY intermated in the verious bits of background is that the breading habits of them more resemble kidnaping, torcher and rape folowed by psyic inforced brainwashing and domination. Subjects that weastern culture are big no-no's to talk about.
As for burth and stuff it is discribed as 'natural' for the host speaces, exceapt for the 'blindness to the warped form of the baby' and that to the pareants the purstrain looks exactly like a normal baby of that race. Adult uniffected Psyckers on the other hand can see straght throuh the ilushion however and this is why the eldar have as a race stayed relativly clear of infection, as isolated groups may be taken but any Farsear or Warlock would exspose the group.

AndrewGPaul
16-08-2010, 10:42
There's always C-sections and so on.

Although considering the cult couldn't use normal medical facilities and have to set themselves up out of plain sight, chances are that maternal mortality rates are higher than the rest of the population anyway, at least for the first few generations, and certainly for those outside the genestealers own genetic line.

By the time you get to 4th generation hybrids, the cult is already fairly well established - as well as the hybrids, there's the Brood Brethren as well. It's not implausible that the cult would have its own medical facilities.

Anyway, there's no imagery anywhere of infant hybrids (probably just as well); the spiky protuberances and claws might only grow in after birth.

Sai-Lauren
16-08-2010, 13:52
By the time you get to 4th generation hybrids, the cult is already fairly well established - as well as the hybrids, there's the Brood Brethren as well. It's not implausible that the cult would have its own medical facilities.

Hence my mentioning the first few generations (maybe up to early 3rd gens), when they're still getting established, don't have the resources to fund (or steal) equipment for a maternity unit and can't really afford to be under any real scrutiny.

I'd imagine the Imperium keeps a fairly close eye on some medical supplies and equipment as well - for precisely these kinds of reasons.

drmarco
16-08-2010, 14:46
Well, it did say "first-born", implying there'll be others.

Don't suppose someone fancies drawing an infant 'stealer? little claws and big baby eyes? d'awww. :)

Too late - they're already modelled!

Check to the right of the magus models... (http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2103genestealers-h.htm)

Cheers,

Marco

ashc
16-08-2010, 14:49
Did someone order a baby genestealer?

Malice313
16-08-2010, 15:11
On Ymgarl the Genestealers utilise a slug like creature called a Csith which always produces a purestrain 'Stealer according to page 211 of Rogue Trader.

AndrewGPaul
17-08-2010, 08:00
Did someone order a baby genestealer?

Awww. Who's a liddle purple killing machine? :)

I've got one of those Familiars, cunningly posed to be tugging the magus' sleeve.

nedius
17-08-2010, 09:11
In relation to the 1st born being purestrain - This is correct, but there is some fluff (will see if I can find where later) that says that giving birth to a purestrain is highly traumatic for the mother, who rarely survives. This encourages 4th gens to seek out new wives, thus producing greater numbers of purestrains. However, I've also seen it written that 4th gen give birth to either normal humans or purestrains. Not sure which, if either, is considered 'cannon'.

Scalebug
17-08-2010, 10:52
In relation to the 1st born being purestrain - This is correct, but there is some fluff (will see if I can find where later) that says that giving birth to a purestrain is highly traumatic for the mother, who rarely survives. This encourages 4th gens to seek out new wives, thus producing greater numbers of purestrains. However, I've also seen it written that 4th gen give birth to either normal humans or purestrains. Not sure which, if either, is considered 'cannon'.

Sounds like standard misogynist nerdcruft to me, rather than canon...

As have been noted above, the stealer do not need to be born spiky and clawy, thera are a lot of real word creatures with spikes, claws and horns that are born just fine without killing their mothers...

Lord Zarkov
17-08-2010, 12:39
As have been noted above, the stealer do not need to be born spiky and clawy, thera are a lot of real word creatures with spikes, claws and horns that are born just fine without killing their mothers...

But usually the mother is designed to give birth of offspring with spikes and claws ;)

Scalebug
17-08-2010, 12:57
But usually the mother is designed to give birth of offspring with spikes and claws ;)

What is meant is that the spikes and claws are not sharp and spiky at birth, they develop later...

Also, consider that while the host-species may not be 'designed' to give birth to a stealer, the stealer is designed to be birthed by the host species...