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Lord of Nonsensical Crap
14-08-2010, 01:16
So, I recently went onto the Games Workshop website, and not only failed to find any page on the Dogs of War, nor any articles on them, but failed to find anything pertaining to the Dogs of War whatsoever (via search function). After looking on Wikipedia, I also found that the PDF files for their army list and Regiments of Renown (which have always been present in links on the relevant Wiki page) seem to be gone as well.

So is this it? Are Dogs of War pretty much done for?

Duke Georgal
14-08-2010, 01:29
They are still an "allowed" list in most independent events. We will soon see if they are still that way in 8th.

I don't think GW has much to do with them anymore.

Ironhand
14-08-2010, 01:40
In one of the last interviews he gave before he left GW, Alessio said DoW were a bad idea, would not be supported, and would not be repeated.

R3pr3ssor
14-08-2010, 02:18
hes a jerk. Dogs of war armies are THE most expensive army per point if you used the official minis, and hes saying that all the money spent on those armies is wasted...

what a d*****bag

Commissar Vaughn
14-08-2010, 03:50
DOW are alive and well...the PDFs are still on the GW italy site and GW still sell some of the models on the webstore.

Im suprised by the Alessio Comment above though, last I heard he was involved in the new list being developed by GW italy.

sulla
14-08-2010, 04:12
In one of the last interviews he gave before he left GW, Alessio said DoW were a bad idea, would not be supported, and would not be repeated.Sounds like a pretty dumb comment. Is there anywhere online I can hear/read this interview?

SamVimes
14-08-2010, 04:18
Here's a 3 day old topic on just this very subject. It's a fun read, if your idea of fun is warseer arguments (mine is)

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271013

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
14-08-2010, 05:09
Here's a 3 day old topic on just this very subject. It's a fun read, if your idea of fun is warseer arguments (mine is)

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271013

Ah. Didn't notice this topic beforehand. My apologies.

SamVimes
14-08-2010, 05:28
Don't apologize. That thread quickly derails into being crazy to go to a tournament without a competitive list. It's just a fun read, and a little bit of an insight as to what the people on Warseer 3 days ago think about DoW.

mistrmoon
14-08-2010, 05:43
Dogs are still around, i emailed GW about that a while ago and they said no more support but them and kislev, chaos dwarfs and slayer cult are still ok. :)

inq.serge
14-08-2010, 09:32
Jes said that, while CD will get redone, they haven't decided whether to keep or scrap DoW.

As I understood; There's a chance that they'll return.

DDogwood
14-08-2010, 14:26
The problem with Dogs of War is that they create a balance issue with WFB armies. One of the ways they have differentiated between armies is to make them defective in some way (no shooting, no magic, etc) and DoW disrupt this.

IMO this wouldn't be a problem if GW found a more interesting way to make armies different, but there it is.

stashman
15-08-2010, 00:43
DoW have all the opportunities to be a fun and competitive army in 8th with all new magic for characters.

cyberspite
15-08-2010, 02:04
GW should take a look at Privateer Press and their mercs faction. There is no reason DoW cannot be a perfectly good stand-alone force.

Cain-asmodeus
15-08-2010, 06:31
I agree, simply give Dow a good basic army list of unique troops, and see if they are able to catch peoples attention

for one, i personally think it would be cool to have halflings as core choice,

maybe even a halfling hero (without rings....)

I would add Cathay Ninjas in their special choices, give them the ability to have killing blow, 5+ ward save, and regeneration, and able to throw ranged attacks 12" to 16" away. I purely add them to the list, bc they are sometimes hired hitmen for the richest of nations. ( imagine Ninja Assasin)

Dragon Monks, unarmed martial artists capable of destroying armor with but a touch, using the enemy prowess against themselves, (basically a failed hit against a monk hits the attacker instead) also capable of ebbing their fists with raw electricity ( Big trouble lil china) they would mercenaries of a different source, they would go to help others for mere food and water

Dragon Master, Lord class unarmed fighter capable of slaying monsters and defeating lords without a scratch. capable of disarming powerful enemies and using it against them, advanced enough to slay multi wound monsters with one hit. (kill bill 2) spiritually attuned to such a degree to call forth a bolt of lightning, hurl a shard of ice, or even a fireball. ( lv. 2 wizard, casts spells like bound spells)

a few others like arabian knights, djinns, even Amazons could find a home in a new DoW list. I would enjoy making a suitable army list. :)

StrawberryMcFairyShoes
15-08-2010, 13:07
I never liked the current theme of DoW. Although should they decide to release something similar I would like to see a Estalia army with maybe paymasters, pikes and crossbows. Maybe a small amount of halflings and high elves mercenaries but no ninja's, samurai, ogres,... Would be hard to differentiate from The Empire though.

I say good riddance, I just want to see Chaos Dwarfs and Araby (Without Djinns.). I think adding those armies would bring Tomb Kings and Nehekarra (sp?) a bit closer to the old world.

theorox
15-08-2010, 13:16
I agree with StrawberryMcFairyShoes, maybe Tilea instead of Estalia... Like in "Treachery and Greed" then? That would be awesome!


Theo

BorderKing
15-08-2010, 14:41
What I would do with DOW is to create a Border Prince/Estalia/Tilean combined army. If it proves successful split them up like they did with the hordes of chaos. If not, merge it with the Empire. They could also do the same with a Nippon/Kuresh/Cathay army.

What I think GW fears is that is they created a DOW as a stand alone army is that it might cannibalize profit from Empire. However, in recent years human armies are becomming less profitable and anything that increase sales, even if it does eat into Empire profits, would in my opinion , be a good idea for the long term.

sulla
15-08-2010, 20:22
What I would do with DOW is to create a Border Prince/Estalia/Tilean combined army.I think the biggest problem with DoW as a standalone army was that they lacked focus. To me, if they ever revisit DoW, they should just pick one of those places and make it the armies of that area. Probably Tilea. For special army rules, you could always be allowed to add a detatchment of DoW allies to armies using the allies rules from the big bulebook.

I would really like to see a regiments of reknown book again too with all the famous mercenary units of the world and rules for adding them to armies. (I really miss RoR).

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
15-08-2010, 20:34
RoR is the real issue with DoW. Even though these are two different things, thanks to the RoR DoW got squated. Wasn't it balance issues like "Dwarfs should not have cavalry and Gobbos should not have cannons" that caused it?

Cain-asmodeus
15-08-2010, 21:11
Honestly using combined themes of purely those three factions, doesnt sound like a good solution, and it doesnt sound mercenary to me. the main reason chaos moved away from combining armies was the simple fact that it was too big for one person to choose from, and to keep a clear focus on the army.

Dogs of War would find a good base of operations in Tilea, However in the essence of being mercenaries, they are known to 'get around'. To balance that aspect of the army, the army list should reflect from the cities they are mostly connected too.

Mostly the army list would be about the same, with really good refresh.

Before deciding what sounds right for the list. We have to list what major cities unique in the warhammer world has strong ties to mercenaries. The further they are from Tilea the more Rare they become.
(however Paymaster/bodyguards and General/captain could dress from any city he has been below. )

1 Tilea, I beleive units from this country would consist of mostly Core choices, purely being one of the largest collection of cities (including Border princes) home to mercenaries, mostly pikemen, crossbowmen, light and heavy calvary, and cannons.

2.Araby, mercenary units from this country would have core and special chocies. fast arabian Knights on horses...or camels? Same with Arabian knights on foot possible replace deulists?, Possible Djinn (for they would fight for an army for the right price :evilgrin: )

3.Moot, It is well known that the halflings enjoy a good brewery, fancy enough coin or adventure, and they come fast. having being closest to tilea, geometrically they should be apart of core and special choices, normal halfings in core, hot pot in special and possibly giving the hot pot an array of meatcleaving bodyguards to their pots of food.

4.Ind, as mercenaries goes, none are more strange than the silent monks of Ind, offering newcomers with shelter and food, but not accepting coin for there help, they would go outside of there way to help those in need. they consist of dragon monks who are adept martial artists, forbidden to weild instuments of war, using ki energy to break enemy defenses. (some say can channel the electicity with their strikes) Mostly Special choices, and possible lord for Dragon Master

5. Cathay, the furthest away one could travel in the world of men, most mercenaries who make the journey have seen many things, and most often elite combat specialists. when it comes to money, i could see no higher than the dreaded excutioner squad of Ninjas, with the right price, the target would be evicerated without ever leaving a trace of what was there. a Rare unit of Ninjas would be nerve raking indeed. Wandering samurai's could eventually find themselves for hire as leaders or potential bodyguard for a wealthy lord.
most likely a hero choice

6. New World, lastly the amazons of the new world, some have been captured and sent to Mordheim, whats to stop them from joining an army or mercenaries in the hopes one day they can have enough coin to go home? possible special or Rare choice

StrawberryMcFairyShoes
15-08-2010, 21:30
I would really dislike that type of army. Its just a collection of units you think are "cool".

Should they choose to do Tilea, which they won't, they should stick to Old World (Mostly human) mercenaries.
In fact the more I think about it the more I reckon that we should just stick to Empire rules and use stand in models made by Forgeworld. Pizzaro style troops as spearmen, swordsmen, archers, handgunners, crossbowmen and halberdiers.
Mercenaries of different races and classes (Kislevite thugs, halflings looking for money, a high elf noble looking for adventure, outlaws,...) as militia. Well you get the drift.

SamVimes
15-08-2010, 22:02
I would really dislike that type of army. Its just a collection of units you think are "cool".

Should they choose to do Tilea, which they won't, they should stick to Old World (Mostly human) mercenaries.
In fact the more I think about it the more I reckon that we should just stick to Empire rules and use stand in models made by Forgeworld. Pizzaro style troops as spearmen, swordsmen, archers, handgunners, crossbowmen and halberdiers.
Mercenaries of different races and classes (Kislevite thugs, halflings looking for money, a high elf noble looking for adventure, outlaws,...) as militia. Well you get the drift.

Cool, you dislike them. Clearly they aren't the army for you. But they are the army for some people, and just because you dislike them does not mean they shouldn't exist.

StrawberryMcFairyShoes
15-08-2010, 22:13
Its not just that. It just doens't make any sense. Mercenaries are ok but do we really need halflings, samurai and ninja's in the same army? Not that it matters though GW will not release or support DoW in the next 5 years.

UberBeast
16-08-2010, 01:34
It's such a pity I didn't buy more DoW minis when they were first released. Building large units is fairly expensive now adays, even by GWs standards.

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
16-08-2010, 10:01
If they brought 'em back to life I wouldn't like having Cathay and Ind units in it.
If you explore everything in the Whworld it won't be as exciting. Also, it should only be a standalone army.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
16-08-2010, 10:31
The problem with Dogs of War is that they create a balance issue with WFB armies.

Yes.. DoW has been known to be sole cause for imbalance in WFB... ;)

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
16-08-2010, 10:38
Yeah... DoW stands for Daemons of Ward(?)

DDogwood
16-08-2010, 17:08
Yes.. DoW has been known to be sole cause for imbalance in WFB... ;)

Right, because it's not the ONLY balance issue, that means it's NOT a balance issue. Very good logic.

SamVimes
16-08-2010, 17:49
Except the aspect that makes them unbalancing has been dealt with since their inception in official events: Armies may not include DoW units. Pure Dow armies are allowed.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
16-08-2010, 20:43
Right, because it's not the ONLY balance issue, that means it's NOT a balance issue. Very good logic.

Well DD, WFB has never been known for its perfect balance, but actually DoW were a balancing element in the grand scheme, sure you'd have woodies with cannons and dwarves with cavalry, but all of these were subpar units of their type and available to all - calling DoW unbalanced is like calling a Warbanner or Sword of Might unbalanced :p

Dedicated armies were usually far stronger than those including DoW, due to the internal synergy in the armies.

Lack of balance in WFB comes from the arbitrary points values and internal synergies in the armies, not from giving all armies a shared 'basic' resource :)

rodmillard
16-08-2010, 21:36
I think there is scope for "mercenary contingents" using the ally rules from the FBRB. A 1000 point allied contingent from DoW would include the mandatory general and paymaster, 25% core DoW troops, and maybe one or two RoR. Hardly game breaking, when you consider that wood elves can now take an allied brettonian contingent for knights and trebuchets, and dwarves can take allied empire knights and pistoliers...

Maybe there isn't enough there for a full book (yet) but it could easily be done as a WD article.

Cain-asmodeus
17-08-2010, 03:50
Oh i do say I second that opinion. There is plenty here, or floating out there that can easily be listed on paper and feild tested for Dow, The Challenging part is what stays and what goes in this book.

The most given part of the DoW list has to be the RoR, this can play havoc on the list, to be balanced, i beleive a DoW army can only take so many RoR per normal unit entry In the list. It would be somewhat like a normal army list with special characters, but i Beleive RoR would have their own seperate list, where you could select them, somewhat the same way you would select Options on a Character.


In which ever the case, Keep in mind the Whole army is based on the concept of "Mercenaries" not just human kind. I can see a Mercenary Halfling Hero taking charge of Ogres. Or An Amazon Queen with following of drunken dwarven pirates on a raid for booty Arrrgh :evilgrin:

even as far fetch as some ideas are, I do would like them to be actually considered in at least a mercenary list. NInjas, lone samurai's, Dragon Monks, you could even bribe monsters to fight for you. Gorgons - medusa like creature that turns you to stone, Giants for sure. Djinns for sure would fight for you if you offered enough souls to him. i just HOPE people can take a step back and imagine for a change, for after all this is 'Fantasy Battles isnt It?

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
17-08-2010, 06:45
Yes it's fantasy battles, but what fun will it be if we have all units in the world?