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Sleepwalker
14-08-2010, 14:58
Decided after much deliberation to give WHF a go and decided Skaven are the army for me.

Having never played them before and having little real experience with the new WHF rules, I was wondering what kind of list is best to play.

I've ordered Island of Blood and have the chance to get the skaven from a second box, so I'll have those as the basis. Can anybody throw some suggestions at me for the basis of a list?

Any and all help appreciated.

D'Haran
14-08-2010, 15:30
There's a fairly extensive skaven tactics page you would do well to read through, even though it's gotten a bit long.

Other than that skaven units are cheap so it's easy to field several large (horde) units, you can take more heroes than most armies since they're also a bargain price (don't spend too much on heroes as they're really army support and not army makers), Lvl 4 shaman seems to be pretty par for the course, though your best units will always be abominations and doom wheels, also doom bells are pretty useful.

The last 3 units mentioned are going to be what carry the day on a regular basis, the rest will largely be support for these units.

Kevlar
14-08-2010, 16:05
Island of blood is a good start. I would suggest supplementing it with two boxes of plague monks and a plague furnace. By far the best unit in the skaven arsenal. With the monk boxes you can make 32 monks and 8 plague censer bearers. The furnace priest is removable for smaller games. Just base him and paint the base to match the furnace wood. Also you get a nice looking seer and an akwardly posed extra rat ogre with the furnace bits. I may chop mine up and use some other spare ogre and demon bits i have to make an abomination. There are some giant rat bits in there as well. You could proxy a clan rat or two for packmasters, or even make your own whips fairly easily.

You will still be light on slaves but should have a fairly solid 2000 point list there.

Macavity
15-08-2010, 00:48
Screaming Bell is definitely the post-box swap purchase of choice. See Skaven tactics thread for PLague Furnace vs Screaming Bell arguments.

russellmoo
15-08-2010, 03:35
I agree with buying the two boxes of plague monks. Then also buy an additional box of clanrats.

This will give you enough rats to run two blocks of 30 clanrats, so you can field either the warpfire throwers or the poisoned wind launchers and 40 slaves. Plus the 4 rat ogres, you will also have 32 PM's 8 PCB's and 2 warlock engineers. You can convert the other warlord to function as a BSB, and run the other one as a Warlord. This might be your cheapest route to a full army.

Col. Dash
15-08-2010, 07:41
Just a bit of warning, skaven are considered the cheesiest and most broken army( I would rather face daemons). Field 2 or more furnaces or bells and prepare to either be auto-comped in tournies or find it hard to find a friendly game.
Just to list the worst(best if you are playing them I guess), Furnaces are too good, storm banner is the most broken item in the game(I will auto-comp just for someone playing one, sorry but it is too good for the points), Screaming bell is really extremely good, doom wheels are really good and under pointed, havent faced an Abomination but it looks absolutely wrong. The stormvermin are frikken awesome if they have ranks, especially for a core choice. Clan rats are ok, cheap and you can get a ton of them, but even better are their support weapons. Warp lightning cannons are really good. No one around here uses Jezzails.
This army is so easy to cheese out it isnt funny so if you want friends and people to play against, dont go there, they already have a bad reputation. The new army book, while not as bad as the old one still has the rep and the teeth to back it up.

Edit- By saying dont go there, I mean dont go super cheese, not dont go skaven. They are a great looking army.

Clanrat
15-08-2010, 08:11
@ col dash....thats REALLY no way to talk to a beginner.......

im pretty certain if you told me what armies you play i could make the argument that they are the most broken/cheesy in the game, (unless of course its orcs in which case..why oh why....?)

frankly, ive NEVER had a problem with my skaven, they`re a fun crazy army that just happens to have a bit of a reputation because of things such as you mentioned.

However, so do Daemons, Dark Elves, Vampire Counts and many others..swings and roundabouts situation.

To the OP, ive not tried a bell yet, but id definately agree with getting the plague monks and a furnace, also, make sure you invest in a lot more clanrats ( try and make some of them Slaves...slave units are really important to skaven simply for holding up the enemy while your harder stuff gets into position to kill stuff)

fastcarfreak
15-08-2010, 08:22
Just a bit of warning, skaven are considered the cheesiest and most broken army( I would rather face daemons). Field 2 or more furnaces or bells and prepare to either be auto-comped in tournies or find it hard to find a friendly game.
Just to list the worst(best if you are playing them I guess), Furnaces are too good, storm banner is the most broken item in the game(I will auto-comp just for someone playing one, sorry but it is too good for the points), Screaming bell is really extremely good, doom wheels are really good and under pointed, havent faced an Abomination but it looks absolutely wrong. The stormvermin are frikken awesome if they have ranks, especially for a core choice. Clan rats are ok, cheap and you can get a ton of them, but even better are their support weapons. Warp lightning cannons are really good. No one around here uses Jezzails.
This army is so easy to cheese out it isnt funny so if you want friends and people to play against, dont go there, they already have a bad reputation. The new army book, while not as bad as the old one still has the rep and the teeth to back it up.

You my friend are way too bitter toward skaven. They are easily beaten. Most of the stuff you said is completely wrong... The furnace is a great model in the game, but is far from unstoppable... it has no save and can be singled out by anything. Again, the stormbanner is good, but far from broken. It is a 50 point banner, that could possibly spoil your own plans as well. -1 to shooting and 50 percent warmachine not shooting for a statistical turn is far from broken... Doomwheels, in my opinion suck in 8th now that they cant break anything... Again Stormvermin, nowhere near worth 7 points a model...

I actually find it funny that you pointed out most of the far inferior units and items in the list as "broken". If anything, the complaints should lie with Slaves, as they are without a doubt the best unit in the army.... but then again, if someone is willing to fill the board with units that have a ridiculously high $$$ to point ration, then the horned rat bless them...

The truth is, flank skaven and they lose, PERIOD....

russellmoo
15-08-2010, 19:09
I agree with the last post, Dark elves and daemons are way more broken then skaven.

I actually don't field either a screaming bell, or plague furnace and so far under 8th my record is 2W-2D and 1L.

I don't field the screaming bell or PF because that way I have the units and models to stretch across the board, denying my opponents the possibility of outflanking/beating me. It's true, if you flank the skaven they will lose.

mrtn
15-08-2010, 20:10
A battalion would be good to get. This way you get 6 rat ogres and also some giant rats: Use the 6 moulder ones and put the extras from the plague monk sprues on extra bases, you can convert clanrats to extra pack masters. Holding on to one of your IoB pack masters to convert into a future warp-grinder sounds like a good idea.

On the other hand, you will already have 80 skaven models to paint, so if you start with that and start playing you may learn yourself what works and what doesn't. I've painted 300 rats in two years, but not everyone is painting so often as I am and you might find it a bit scary to have all that plastic staring at you, without going out to buy even more the first you do.

Mystic_Weasel
26-08-2010, 14:39
Greetings-greetings Sleepwalker!
So you have taken the clever-smart option of collecting skaven.
I would suggest using another battalion to boost your numbers up from the start for the least 's! Of course it depends on what you want in your army. If you think the basic plastic rat ogres are abominations, and not in a good cheesy way, and also dont fancy clan pestilens then the savings are of no importance. Just get an extra box of clanrats and save yourself 35, to spend on what you want.

The biggest question you face is unit size and formation, with the horde formation you will get an extra rank of attacks, but you are buying 10 rats per rank (even if you must lose 6 to lose a rank). units 5 wide will kill slightly less, but will remain steadfast longer by having more ranks than the enemy.

My core unit is 47 clanrats with hand weapons, and shields. Lead by my general and battle standard. (PS. you WANT a battle standard bearer)
I use them in a 7x7 formation, it has a decent number of ranks, and extra attacks because they can all fight (1st 2 ranks anyway) against units 5 wide. for the clanrats themselves it is a characterful 13 attacks (full command), plus your characters.
Hand weapons and shields are considered the best choice as they are more durable with a 6+ parry save.

I then flank with a smaller 30 strong clanrat unit with spears 5x6, and 25-30 stormvermin 5x5/6. until they take heavy losses, all 3 units with be LD 10, and steadfast with BSB re-roll. These guys are to grind the enemy down, but the real damage will be done by your more powerful units. The doomwheel, warplightning cannon if you love Skryre like me, rat ogres for moulder, and come X-mas you will have the hellpit abomination. Pestilens plaguemonks with plague priest and furnace, with banner of dripping death. A plague claw catapult.
You can stick a LARGE number of skavenslave units down for very few points, just to scare the enemy when they look across at your deployment zone. plus if they are lined up infront of the main battle line, they should be within 12" of the general and BSB, so steadfast LD10 too. Blast the hell out of the slaves and the units they fight, with cannons, weapon teams, catapults. when they finish off the slaves, they can fight your main force!
Really, you have joined our furry ranks at the best time, there has never been so many options for us.
PS. I loved skaven LONG before it was cool and they were considered broken.
Ignore people like that, they probably would play duel teclis armies if it was in the rules.
With so many new skaven armies appearing upon the surface world, the time of Horned Rat must soon be at hand.

To round up, you will want lots of basic skaven, clanrats and slaves, stormvermin can also be put here. Then beef up the armies ability to damage with some more fun stuff.
And i forget who said it, but it was here on warseer.
The "aim" of the game is to win, but the "point" of the game is to have fun, don't confuse the two.
Otherwise you will quickly become a whiner (^-^)b, Us skaven players must be better than that, being a superiour race an' all.

DisasterMaster
26-08-2010, 16:52
Just a bit of warning, skaven are considered the cheesiest and most broken army( I would rather face daemons). Field 2 or more furnaces or bells and prepare to either be auto-comped in tournies or find it hard to find a friendly game.
Just to list the worst(best if you are playing them I guess), Furnaces are too good, storm banner is the most broken item in the game(I will auto-comp just for someone playing one, sorry but it is too good for the points), Screaming bell is really extremely good, doom wheels are really good and under pointed, havent faced an Abomination but it looks absolutely wrong. The stormvermin are frikken awesome if they have ranks, especially for a core choice. Clan rats are ok, cheap and you can get a ton of them, but even better are their support weapons. Warp lightning cannons are really good. No one around here uses Jezzails.


Really? You don't play people with the storm banner? Is this because you only run a dwarf gunline? It's rediculously stupid to refuse to play against anything worth taking in a list. Storm banner is not OP. If effects both players and will only last more than one of your turns 25% of the time. You have a point that skaven can come out with cheese, but furnaces aren't as good anymore and the only serious cheese we have is multiple HPAs. Bell and furnace die to cannons and any template, as both rider and monut are targeted, and may be picked out of units. They also cost a fair ammount. Doomwheels are not undercosted as they have a very specialized role and aren't good for much else. Storm vermin aren't "frikkin awesome." They are good, but are about on par with other army's basic infantry. Weapon teams are very good but are easy to kill and difficult to get into position most of the time.

Summation: it is easy to list all the strengths of a unit and consider it over powered. All skaven units are effective, but have in most cases significant drawbacks. This also makes them very fun to play. Also, most of the other advice here is good advice. Have fun with your skaven, good luck painting!

bfeijter
26-08-2010, 19:03
"skaven are considered the cheesiest and most broken army"

I wonder where you ran this poll. or did you ask all your personalities and desided the collective you thought skaven are the most cheesy army. :)

Sure a multi HPA list can be cheesy. but so can certain slann lists. multiple Hydra's.
And ofcourse Purple sun foccussed list when they knew they were up against low Iniative armies.

There are quiet a few armies which can make a "cheesy" list.

Anyways. i find it funny that you can say skaven are the most broken en cheesy army and sell it as a fact.

Casshole
26-08-2010, 21:52
Of course we are cheesy. We are rat men. We eat cheese for breakfast.

The skaven were not designed to win by fair means and everything they have is very undercosted and sneaky. To balance this, most everything in the army has a "roll this number and unit goes ape s***. You can talk all you want about the power of an abom, but at least a hydra wont go crazy and smash your own units. Never has a dragon needed to take a leadership test to NOT breath fire at your own troops. Get used to the fact that we have a disgustingly good army list, because by turn 4 or so our troops get less and less good.

Also get used to the evil smile of a skaven player, we all know full well we have an army that basically does what ever it wants besides riding horses.